Author Topic: New Pizza Place In Saginaw, MI. Business Trends, Advertising, Help!  (Read 4512 times)

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Offline 216.chris

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Re: New Pizza Place In Saginaw, MI. Business Trends, Advertising, Help!
« Reply #20 on: October 03, 2013, 06:52:50 PM »
Just from the lateral slice view I am a bit concerned about your dough.  The bubbles on the crumb look very tight to me, and the crust is pretty thick towards the rim. ....

Thank you! I am always open to suggestions! Any idea on helping it get that irregular bubble? I am using two different flours with my current recipe. One is more of a bread flour and the other is a very high gluten flour.


Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: New Pizza Place In Saginaw, MI. Business Trends, Advertising, Help!
« Reply #21 on: October 03, 2013, 06:57:44 PM »
Also, screen marks are like tramp stamps to me. Not attractive.

Offline 216.chris

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Re: New Pizza Place In Saginaw, MI. Business Trends, Advertising, Help!
« Reply #22 on: October 03, 2013, 07:00:19 PM »
The more I see and read, the more I think you really need to raise your prices... considerably. $9.99 for a 16" pizza is already a huge discount (unless the pizza comes from Domino's). If your pizza is any good--and those pics make me think it probably is--you're already giving people at least a few bucks off of every single pizza they buy......

I totally see where you are coming from. I am leaning towards riding the month out and see if the mailers help while at the same time revamping the menu (add subs or wings or something similar) and then with that possibly upping some prices and try to bring in a whole new crowd. Possibly even keep some lowball prices on only a few select items and just run them as a special that way we can still keep some of the lower income people (current customers) happy as well. Ideas?

Offline waltertore

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Re: New Pizza Place In Saginaw, MI. Business Trends, Advertising, Help!
« Reply #23 on: October 03, 2013, 07:49:04 PM »
I totally see where you are coming from. I am leaning towards riding the month out and see if the mailers help while at the same time revamping the menu (add subs or wings or something similar) and then with that possibly upping some prices and try to bring in a whole new crowd. Possibly even keep some lowball prices on only a few select items and just run them as a special that way we can still keep some of the lower income people (current customers) happy as well. Ideas?

It sounds like to me you are trying to find your comfort zone with your pizza and the vibe of your shop.  I would go with what feels best for you.  Make the pizza purely the way you like it.  This will attract the crowd  you would like having in your shop.  I know this sounds cosmic but I have lived this way for over 50 years and things continue to get more clear/prosperous/joyful the more I follow my heart and not my head.  One can compute all day long about how to reach the biggest market and such.  I do not post on the PQM because that is what that forum is all about most of the time- who sells the most pizzas, wings, and such. Art never seems to enter as the top priority there.  Taking a stand and doing your thing is something that is generally lacking in our society.  Most of the pizzerias I respect do this.  Some have no phone, no menu, no bathroom, no seating, open only a few days a week, and things like that.  On paper this spells disaster but they have lines around the block.  I say follow your dreams because all we have left to do is die so why not have a passionate life before that day comes.  Mediocrity is the norm in our food culture and then you end up in competition with the chain places and that is one animal that a small independent will never topple.  Their formula for success consists in part in destroying the small operators that challenge their customer base.  Conversely they surrender to the eccentrics that march to their own drum because that is way off their grid of comfort.  Much courage to you to follow your heart and not your  head.  Walter


Here is my pizza.  It is my favorite pizza to eat.  It is heavily influenced from my NJ/NYC upbringing and my mother from Italy family that taught me.  I put my own little thing into it that makes it mine.  I was raised on deck oven, hand tossed, thin crust, pizza.  I have no interest in wood burning or trying to make my pizzas look like a wood burned pizza with fat puffy rims, and such.  I see more and more people trying to find a special nitch in this area and they have no real backround with it and will never compete with the ones that really do it right.  In central Ohio there is no pizza like ours.  Many claim to be NYC style but fall way short due to what I see as lack of skill in the whole process and sub par ingredients to keep prices cheap.  My setup is  unique being in a public high school and in an extremely impoverished town.  Our shop can not be entered directly so people have to come to a locked door that has to be opened by security people.  We are only open during school hours, do no advertising, and there is no direct phone line to us.  This is as wacky a set up as I have encountered but it is working.  We are turning profits that make us the highest earning club in the district beating out the athletic dept which includes football/basket ball games, a busy in school store that sells sports stuff with school logos on it, and lots of fundraisers like golf tournements, breakfasts, and stuff like that.  I figure when I retire I will take this to a store front location and let it keep unfolding.  My driving force is to make great pizza not great profits.  My wife and I live pretty basic and money never has been of much interst to me.  Passion has.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2013, 06:10:50 AM by waltertore »

Offline shuboyje

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Re: New Pizza Place In Saginaw, MI. Business Trends, Advertising, Help!
« Reply #24 on: October 03, 2013, 07:54:14 PM »
As a fellow michigander I'm going to give you my opinion, harsh as it may seem.

Michigan is the home of chain pizza, chain pizza is king here.  Domino's, Little Caesars, Jet's and Hungry Howies are all based here.  Add in the other big national chains like Pizza Hut and Papa Johns, and the picture becomes clear.  Chain pizza is everywhere.  When people want that style of pizza they go to a chain.  The pizzas you have pictured look like chain pizza.  It very well may be very good chain style pizza, and people may be telling you the truth when they say how much they like it, but at the end of the day it probably does not stand out THAT much from the pizza produced by the chains they have been eating for year, who send them coupons every week, who are on their way home from work or soccer practice, and who can sell them a pizza for $5. 

I've eaten a lot of pizza in South Eastern Michigan, I have no problem driving for a couple hours to eat good pizza.  In my experience the independent pizzerias in Michigan that do really well, the places with a line out the door and a license to print money,  tend to make a style of pizza that is not in line with what the chains do.  There are lots of independents doing very well with Detroit Style, Chicago Style, New York Style, even some Americanized Neapolitan style...but very few doing chain style.

I'd personally figure out a different style of pizza that you can add to the menu with your current equipment and without interrupting your ability to produce your current pizza.  That way you don't lose your current clientele while trying to find a new one.   
-Jeff

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: New Pizza Place In Saginaw, MI. Business Trends, Advertising, Help!
« Reply #25 on: October 04, 2013, 01:23:17 PM »
Chris,

After studying the Google satellite map of your area, here are some of my impressions:
  • Your location looks convenient and accessible.
  • Judging by the apparent size of your space (from overhead), as well as the bench out front, I'm guessing there is no dining room.
  • Looks like there should be decent exposure to traffic, with the shopping center across the street. Especially with the Kroger there.
  • It looks like it should be relatively easy to make left turns into your parking lot.
  • Alcohol next door. (Alcohol and pizza tend to go very well together, and every liquor store customer should at least notice your presence.)
  • There's room out front, by the road, for someone to hold up a sign announcing your "special of the moment" when business is dead (most likely during typically slow periods, like 2-4 pm). Or just someone dancing around in a pizza slice costume once in a while so people will know you're there.
You want to try to get large catering orders during weekday lunch. Like for monthly employee meetings at car dealerships and stuff like that, where you'll be selling 10 or 20 pizzas, a huge container of salad, several 2-liters of pop, etc. (Don't confuse my use of the word 'catering' with actual catering, because 'catering' in the pizza industry basically just means large orders, packaged and priced for a specific quantity of people, then delivered.) You need to create catering-related marketing materials to give to businesses, then you have to find these places and get your materials to the right people (usually receptionists). And while you're there, give them your latest fliers and coupons, with coupons for both individual and group-sized lunch specials. Because these coupons will be used, but only if these materials are there for mechanics and parts drivers and salesmen to see.

And remember this: You get to decide what the coupons say. I'm not telling you to make ridiculous lunch specials. If you want, your coupon can offer something without even decreasing the price. It's the dotted line that does the trick, not necessarily what's inside the dotted line.

The chains can offer ridiculously low prices (which are still higher than yours) because:
  • Chains use mostly cheap ingredients.
  • Chains get their ingredients for much better prices than you'll ever get because they buy their ingredients on a massive scale.
  • Chains pay minimum wage and place ridiculous demands on their employees.
  • When employees can't quite meet the time demands of customers, it's not a huge deal because chain customers are loyal.
  • The chains have figured out how to be a lot more efficient than you'll ever be. They have expensive special equipment, commissaries, and other efficiency tools that will never be practical or affordable for you.
In other words, their costs are a lot lower than your costs (and always will be). You cannot compete with the chains.

Looking at the big picture, the one thing that stands out to me (and keeps standing out) is that your low prices are killing you (or will kill you). To survive with those prices, you'll have to sell hundreds of pizzas every day. That's not gonna happen. And if it ever does happen, it'll drive you and your staff nuts. You'll have such a high turnover of staff that you'll constantly have to be hiring and training new people, which takes a lot of time and costs a ton of money.

Right now Pizza Amore is just another supplier of cheap pizza; even cheaper than cheap pizza. At least that's how people see it. And the only reason they see it that way is because that's what you're showing them. One great thing about operating an independent pizzeria, rather than franchising a chain, is that you get to make your pizzeria unique or better than the chains. You get to create your own specials or choose not to offer certain specials. If you put in enough thought, you get to serve a market that has not already been tapped. You can't beat the chains at their game, but they can't even try to compete with you if you play your own game. Their bosses won't let them.

You created an opportunity for yourself to play by your own rules, but instead you're playing by the chains' rules, which they get to rewrite whenever they want. If you keep playing their game, you won't be in business very long.

$5,000 in monthly sales would scare me. It would tell me I'm not getting paid this year. Even worse, it would tell me it's gonna cost me money to work this year. It would tell me I'm doing something wrong. It would tell me I need to change what I'm doing wrong.

This much is clear: Something is wrong. You seem like a nice guy, so service is probably not what's wrong. Location doesn't seem to be what's wrong. Based on very little evidence, food quality doesn't seem to be what's wrong. Still, something's wrong, and everything seems to point toward your low prices and the position you've chosen to place Pizza Amore within the local pizza market.

Your low prices are killing you, in more than one way. As a business owner, no one else is gonna change that for you. You have to change it yourself. But you also have to understand why you might change your prices. You have to understand why you give certain items certain prices. You have to constantly focus on figuring out what you may be doing wrong, then start doing it right.

Success in the pizza business is a choice.

Offline 216.chris

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Re: New Pizza Place In Saginaw, MI. Business Trends, Advertising, Help!
« Reply #26 on: October 04, 2013, 03:39:09 PM »
Lets use this as a hypothetical menu. Does this look better than before? Would you consider changing anything more? How are the prices? Anything else to add or take away? Thought about adding a Chicago Deep Dish because you cannot get one anywhere in town! I am researching more and the price thing is really starting to make a lot of sense. Even if we were to lose a few customers based solely on price, well then they aren't for us. The higher price may actually give the appearance of something different compared to everyone else. I'm just worried about going to high. We are also working to get a "Take and Bake" to accept EBT so maybe with the higher prices the fact that we will be able to offer EBT may actually bring some of the lower income people back in. (Still not sure if we want to do EBT or not yet). What do you think?

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: New Pizza Place In Saginaw, MI. Business Trends, Advertising, Help!
« Reply #27 on: October 04, 2013, 05:38:12 PM »
When I was getting ready to post this reply a few minutes ago, I decided not to post it because I thought maybe it was out of place and unnecessary. But then I went back to look at your overhauled menu picture, and I realized I had to say it. If you disagree with what I'm about to say, don't put much stock into my words.

I don't mean to be too picky, but the word 'gourmet' is an instant turnoff to me. I will not order from a place that uses the word 'gourmet' to describe their food. It doesn't mean anything. It's a marketing word. To me 'gourmet' says, "We think our prospective and existing customers are stupid enough to think the word 'gourmet' means something."

That's just my opinion, though. We all have our things that bug the hell out of us, and the word 'gourmet' is one of mine. I realize most people don't feel that way about it, and it may be the most effective marketing term out there, especially in combination with higher pricing.

I'm still curious to know if you have a dining area.

Offline JD

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Re: New Pizza Place In Saginaw, MI. Business Trends, Advertising, Help!
« Reply #28 on: October 04, 2013, 05:45:04 PM »
I'm not from Michigan, but $20.99 for a 16" pizza seems a bit excessive. I like your "build your own" pricing though.

There has been a lot of good advice on this thread, and I think you should take a second look at the advice from shuboyje.
Josh

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: New Pizza Place In Saginaw, MI. Business Trends, Advertising, Help!
« Reply #29 on: October 04, 2013, 06:23:25 PM »
Thought about adding a Chicago Deep Dish because you cannot get one anywhere in town!

I was thinking about deep dish, too, after reading and considering what shuboyje had to say. Deep dish is a tough call because it's such a different style of pizza than most consumers outside of Chicago are used to. It might be a hard sell, but then it might be exactly what everyone in your neighborhood has been waiting for. I love deep dish, and I'd love to be the one to bring it to the people around me, but I know a lot of people just don't get it, and that would scare me a little.

I made several deep dish pizzas at pizza parties over the summer (about four hours straight south of you), and people seemed to like them, even though I wasn't necessarily happy with how they turned out. You pretty much can't get that kind of pizza around here, and standard central Ohio pizza is nothing like deep dish. Also, most central Ohioans think "Columbus style" pizza is what pizza is supposed to be. Still, I guess I'd say people were very receptive to my deep dish pizzas at the parties. (But I do make some good deep dish, even when I'm not happy with them.)

When I started doing the Giordano's style stuffed pizzas, though, it was clear that that style of pizza could probably make me very wealthy. In other words, people loved it. I got unbelievably positive feedback from guests. Also, I like my stuffed way more than I like my own deep dish, even though I'm really new at stuffed pizza. (If you haven't seen this thread, you may enjoy: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,25774.msg276929.html#msg276929.)

EDIT: The link is supposed to take you to Reply #154, not the top of the page.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2013, 06:32:05 PM by Aimless Ryan »


Offline 216.chris

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Re: New Pizza Place In Saginaw, MI. Business Trends, Advertising, Help!
« Reply #30 on: October 04, 2013, 06:42:46 PM »
When I was getting ready to post this reply a few minutes ago, I decided not to post it because I thought maybe it was out of place and unnecessary. But then I went back to look at your overhauled menu picture, and I realized I had to say it. If you disagree with what I'm about to say, don't put much stock into my words....

Oh, Gourmet is not for me! That was a simple template that I just put our items in. That will in now way be our menu at all, it was just something I whipped up real quick. I was mostly interested in the price and variety aspect of it. I am not gourmet and will never claim to be. We just make a really good pizza. Plain and simple! But thank you for the advice! I am actually leaning to the Chicago Stuffed pizza. If I get a free moment this evening I may actually make one and post it on here. I think all we really need to do is refine the menu, work some local events, and have an actually grand opening to really let people know we are here. I've come to the consideration that 3 months is not enough time to even tell what business is going to bring. Although, even though we did not want to compete with the chains, after reading and researching everything you talked about, we are competing with them the way we are doing things now. An overhaul and some tightening up is exactly what we need!

Offline waltertore

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Re: New Pizza Place In Saginaw, MI. Business Trends, Advertising, Help!
« Reply #31 on: October 04, 2013, 07:07:33 PM »
Ryan and I live in the same area.  Here is my take so far on deep dish.  I had an old cast iron skillet laying around and after watching what people seemed to go for around here with food(heavy on fats and big servings) I decided to throw a dough ball in the skillet and see how it fared.  I say 70% go for our NY style and 30% for the deep dish.  I only have 1 skillet so only make a few pies a week but I bet if I put it out more the ratio would go up in the deep dish favor.  It is a simple pie to make using the same dough and toppings as our regular pie and requires no skill to make.  The EVOO that we dose the skillet with imparts that flavor into the crust and also makes a different texture.  I use the same size dough ball for an 18' NY style pie for the deep dish. The crust is 5 times as thick and actually cheaper to make because it is probably 12".  We load it heavy with cheese and pepperoni but it is a lot less than goes on the 18" pie.  Plus coming out of the oven sizzling and carmelized on the edges really gets people going oh and ah out  here.  I go oh and ah over a real NY style pie being made.  Walter

For the record I call this a Skillet Pie.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2013, 07:57:48 AM by waltertore »

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: New Pizza Place In Saginaw, MI. Business Trends, Advertising, Help!
« Reply #32 on: October 04, 2013, 10:15:50 PM »
Another thing to consider is topping prices. I don't know if I've ever seen another pizza menu with the same topping price for every size of pizza. I don't know the going rate for toppings, but I'd assume 1.50 for medium and 2.00 for large is appropriate. (In fact, those topping prices would probably be more appropriate for 12" and 14", respectively, as 12" is a standard medium and 14" is a standard large.)

Just noticed this: 13.99/15.99/20.99 for specialty pizzas. There's no way I'd buy a large with that pricing. In fact, that's the kind of thing that would piss me off and make me: 1) go somewhere else, and 2) never come back. First of all because price per square inch should go down as pizza size goes up. With these new prospective prices, the price is 12.4/10.4/10.4 cents per square inch, from small to large. What's my incentive to buy a large?

Similarly, if I order a 16" Hawaiian and you charge me 20.99, how are you gonna respond when I get pissed off because your menu says it should be 17.99 (13.99 + four $1 toppings)?

I've always liked a linear pricing scheme. In this case, 13.99/15.99/17.99 (12.4/10.4/9.0 cents per square inch). It rewards customers for buying a bigger size, but it also rewards you for selling a bigger size.

One thing I was thinking about earlier (but is unrelated to the rest of this post): Carryout specials and dine-in specials.

If I'm you, I don't just want my specials/deals to sell pizzas to faceless customers; I also want some of my specials and deals to bring customers into the building so they can see what they're really getting when they buy pizza from me. Particularly the clean kitchen/store, the friendly staff, the skill it takes to make our pizzas vs. most other pizzas, etc. I want you to see that I value your business and that my employees value your business, because I want to make it easy for you to come back, instead of returning to your former favorite pizza joint.

So I might be willing to offer a ridiculously good carryout or dine-in special on a Monday, Tuesday, or Wednesday. It doesn't have to be a weekly special, but it could be if I decide a weekly special makes sense. Or it could be a coupon that's good anytime, with an expiration date to create urgency. But this special or coupon is not valid with delivery orders, because that totally defeats the point of offering such a ridiculously good deal.

Offline CDNpielover

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Re: New Pizza Place In Saginaw, MI. Business Trends, Advertising, Help!
« Reply #33 on: October 04, 2013, 10:54:31 PM »
$21 is too much for that pizza.  It looks like chain pizza and I'd go to papa johns for half that price.  You can get away with charging that much (and more), but it really does have to be stellar pizza and frankly that pizza doesn't look stellar.

I'm not as loud and assertive as some on this forum, but I think raising prices that high is a big mistake.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2013, 01:35:10 AM by CDNpielover »

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: New Pizza Place In Saginaw, MI. Business Trends, Advertising, Help!
« Reply #34 on: October 05, 2013, 01:18:47 AM »
Regarding your pictures in Reply #17 (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,27882.msg282092.html#msg282092):

I like the first pic a lot. The rim looks crusty and strong. Looks like this dough was made of high gluten flour and maybe not much fat. I like the cracked crust and the crust color. The cheese looks good, too. I think this looks much better than chain pizza, but probably has plenty of room for improvement.

I like the crumb of the second pic, though I think the dough may have been used a little too early. Unlike a lot of members, I don't like big, irregular bubbles. This is pizza, not bread. The one thing I don't like about the second picture is the large quantity of thick outer crust.

I don't like the screen marks. Screen marks creep me out.

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: New Pizza Place In Saginaw, MI. Business Trends, Advertising, Help!
« Reply #35 on: October 05, 2013, 02:59:42 AM »
I was playing around with the pizza trying to give it a little different appearance that what everyone else serves (Dominos or Ceasers). Maybe that slight variation could be appealing to more people and in return bring them in?
You have a lot of work ahead of you my friend...you should have come here loooong ago. If you don't want to loose your investment you better get on the ball and get you some no doze and visine an get busy here....just MHO.
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: New Pizza Place In Saginaw, MI. Business Trends, Advertising, Help!
« Reply #36 on: October 05, 2013, 12:25:53 PM »
When I pulled up a photo of Hungry Howies, cosmetically speaking, it looks a little similar to yours. I'm also concerned that you're both doing 'flavored crusts.'

Yeah, flavored crust seems pretty gimmicky to me. I see it as an appeal to stupid prospective customers, and I generally feel like independent pizzerias should do their best to appeal to, well, smarter folks, by offering a quality of pizza that you just can't get without driving quite a while. With truly great pizza, there's no need for gimmicks like flavored crust. Also, I feel like flavored crust lumps pizza into the same category as chain pizza, even if it's a hundred times better. You can tell people all day that your pizza is a couple steps above chain pizza, but if your pizza has all the same characteristics as chain pizza, they'll figure it out either right away or eventually.

What type of oven do you use? I'm guessing conveyor.

That's an important question, as is my question about whether there is a dining room. Because it's hard to market pizza as high-end if it comes out of a conveyor oven, in a delco unit. You can raise the prices and tell everyone your pizza is great, but if you're in a delco unit with conveyor ovens, it'll probably be hard to get people to take you seriously. Anywhere you can get truly great pizza, you won't see a conveyor oven. NY style doesn't come out of conveyor ovens. Deep dish doesn't come out of conveyor ovens. NY elite doesn't come out of conveyor ovens. Stuffed pizza doesn't come out of conveyor ovens. Neapolitan does not come out of conveyor ovens.

Chain pizza comes out of conveyor ovens.

3 months isn't a lot of time.  You may very well be selling an amazing product and it's just a matter of giving it some more time for people to find you.  It can never hurt though, to take a look at the pizza your selling and figure out ways of improving it- no matter who you are.

Chris,

Three months is enough time to start getting worried if you're only doing $5,000 a month. (I've been a part of many $1,000 hours.) Especially if business was really good for the first month or so. Which is why I asked if business was good in the beginning. If business was good in the beginning, then declined sharply, there's a reason. If business was never good, there's a totally different reason. If you want to turn $5,000 a month into $30,000 a month, you need to find the reasons why you're only doing 5k. It's not an accident, and it's not because Pizza Amore is new. If you allow yourself to believe it's an accident or that it's because you're new, you'll be in the same position in a year. Your situation is not unique.

"Common knowledge" says business will be slow in the beginning. That's what the books say you should indicate in your income statement projections when you're looking for money, if you don't want lenders to laugh at you (because, as recent history has shown, money lenders are very competent at doing their job).

In my experience, "common knowledge" is almost always total BS. What I've seen with a lot of new independents is that the months-long build-out creates a lot of anticipation within prospective customers. Every time they drive by or walk by, people see what's going on, and they become curious to try the new place. However, when the new place opens, the owners don't know what they're doing. Even if their pizza is good, they don't know how to handle the sudden demand, partly because they haven't had a chance to learn how to handle such high demand. Consequently, wait times are an hour for carryout and an hour and a half for delivery. Existing customers don't want to deal with that, and they don't have to. So existing customers quickly become former customers, because they don't have to deal with this kind of BS at almost every other pizzeria they could choose. A lot (or most) of these owners never learn how to handle demand because most of them have no experience working in high-volume pizza or foodservice operations.

I'd say you pretty clearly have no experience working in a high-volume pizza or foodservice operation. That's not a death sentence, but it's a huge handicap. Regardless of whether you sell phenomenal pizza or chain pizza, efficiency is ultimately the most important aspect of operating a pizzeria.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2013, 12:31:27 PM by Aimless Ryan »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: New Pizza Place In Saginaw, MI. Business Trends, Advertising, Help!
« Reply #37 on: October 05, 2013, 01:08:16 PM »
NY style doesn't come out of conveyor ovens. Deep dish doesn't come out of conveyor ovens. NY elite doesn't come out of conveyor ovens. Stuffed pizza doesn't come out of conveyor ovens. Neapolitan does not come out of conveyor ovens.

Ryan,

There are pizza operators who use hearth or hex type disks in conveyor ovens to make the NY style. We have one member in China who has been doing that for several years and now has three stores. There are also some pizza operators, like Aurelio's out of the Chicago area, who have gone to conveyor ovens to bake deep-dish pizzas, mostly in their franchised stores around the country. It even appears that stuffed pizzas can be baked in conveyor ovens, according to this PMQ Think Tank post: http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4410&p=24291&hilit=#p24274. One might debate the merit and quality of these products but the trend toward conveyor ovens is gaining momentum with each year. And it isn't just chains. There are also independents using conveyor ovens for the above styles.

I fully agree with the point you are trying to make. I just wanted to mention how conveyor ovens have invaded the territory where deck ovens have been used.

Peter

Online scott123

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Re: New Pizza Place In Saginaw, MI. Business Trends, Advertising, Help!
« Reply #38 on: October 05, 2013, 02:37:54 PM »
I just spent some time on google maps.

Within 400 feet
Hungry Howies

1 mile
2 little caesars
Papa Johns
Jet's Pizza
Big Nick's Pizza
Good Times Pizza
Around 25 fast food and chain restaurants

1.5 miles
Another little Caesars
Another Papa Johns
Domino's
Tony's Original Restaurant

2 miles
2 more little Caesars
2nd Hungry Howies
Happy's Pizza
Pizza Hut
Milano's Pizza
Around 20 more fast food and chain restaurants

This is an intense concentration of chain pizza/inexpensive food options.  Honestly, had you joined the forum and said you were thinking of opening a pizzeria in this spot, I would probably have tried to dissuade you- it just seems too saturated.  Now that you have opened, I think selling anything close to chain pizza is an unwise choice, regardless of how much your customers rave over it.

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: New Pizza Place In Saginaw, MI. Business Trends, Advertising, Help!
« Reply #39 on: October 05, 2013, 02:50:36 PM »
Nice work, Scott.


 

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