Steve's quick & easy NY pie

[Pete-zza]

briterian,

I like EVOO too, and would use it in Steve's quick and easy dough recipe to get a bit more flavor in the finished crust. I would add the oil after the salt and yeast. Otherwise, it may impede the hydration of the flour. A tablespoon of oil will increase the "wetness" of the dough and its ultimate extensibility, so you may want to keep that in mind as you make the dough. It may necessitate a bit more flour to compensate for the added "wetness" from using the oil.

I'll be interested in your results using the lower bake temperature and longer bake time. I think the pre-bake may help achieve a crispier crust, but because of the large amount of yeast used, you may experience bubbling in the crust during the pre-bake. You can dock the dough, or watch the dough during the pre-bake and pierce any big bubbles that develop. When I pre-bake a crust, I remove it from the oven as soon as it sets up and is firm. Otherwise, it can become cracker-like by the time the cheeses and toppings are finished baking after the pre-bake.

Peter

[Jack]

I know many posts say not to use EVOO but I think I'm trying to impart more flavor.  I will also drizzle another tablespoon over the pile before I apply the sauce.

I use EVOO and you can definitely taste it in my crust, but we love EVOO, frequently dipping bread into garlic and herb infused oil with dinner.  It goes in right before the final kneading. 

I only drizzle EVOO directly on the dough when I make a white (tomatoless pie).  Normally, I drizzle it directly over the cheese, right before I slide the pie into the oven.  I use about a teaspoon on a 14 inch pie, but remember, hard cheeses will add oils on their own.

jack

[billneild]

If you're already at 69% hydration you might want to cut back 1 or 2 % if you add that much oil.  My pies are at 63% hydration and they seem pretty wet after I add and knead the oil.  I'd be worried that the dough might be unworkable, but Pete may have some input on that.  I usually do what Jack does, just before the pie goes in the oven I will drizzle a little over the pie.

Bill

[briterian]

If I add 2 tsp of EVOO to Steve's recipe, I'll remove 2-3 tsp of H20 from the recipe.  Pete, I'm also not going to par-bake after reading your thoughts. Since I am cooking it longer at  a lower temp, it's probably not necessary and could lead to unnecessary drying.  As a good engineer, I should always tell me myself to avoid changing too many variables at once or else you lead yourself to not knowing what worked/didn't work.   

[enob]

enob,

I'd be curious to know how the second pizza comes out. Did the dough rise at any time while in the refrigerator? And how much fresh yeast did you use and how did you measure it out?

Thanks.

Peter

Pete:

I used your suggestion for the fresh yeast which worked out well for the same day 3 hour rise but interesting enough the second dough a cold rise(well it never rised) at least in the refrig even after 4 days but i took it out and left on the counter and it rised nicely after 2 hours. I'm gonna try this again but this time with IDY.

Thanks for your help

Mike

[briterian]

Off the wall question;

Is quick-rise yeast the same as instant dry yeast?  At the store, I see both quick-rise/quick acting yeast and active dry yeast but nothing called 'instant dry yeast.'  If they are truly the same - might be a nice thing to add to the glossary under IDY term.

[Pete-zza]

briterian,

I have been waiting for someone to ask that precise question. I, too, have noted that the term "instant dry yeast" is not used for supermarket brands of yeast, and I look at every yeast section of all the supermarkets I patronize. Apparently, the term "instant dry yeast" is reserved for yeast sold only to professional bakers, usually in 1-lb. bags. However, the yeast sold in supermarkets as bread machine yeast is instant dry yeast. You will usually see it in small bottles.

The Rapid-Rise yeast is a fast-acting yeast from Fleischmann's that is for all intents and purposes an instant dry yeast. However, it is not identical to the instant dry yeast sold to professional bakers, or so I was told when I once communicated with Fleischmann's on that point (it took me several e-mails to get that admission). The Rapid-Rise yeast is intended for home consumers, usually for fast-rise applications over a period of an hour or two. My best advice is to get a 1-lb. bag of IDY, but I would use the Rapid-Rise yeast as you would IDY if you don't have another option. If the SAF "Gourmet Perfect Rise" yeast is available at your supermarket, you can use that also. It is a special breed of yeast that is intended to be used wherever active dry yeast, instant dry yeast, or bread machine yeast is called for in recipes. I have used it and it works fine.

Peter

[billneild]

Pete - When I was looking for IDY I called my local megamart and after 3 transfers they said they had IDY and told me where it was.  Curiously it was not with the Rapid Rise packets.  It was closer to the flour.  It was also something like 25 times more costly than ordering a one pound bag mail order.  Question, IDY is so convenient, no warm water blooming, are you saying you can use the ADY yeast in the same way?  I remember my bread machine instructions called for simply tossing the packet contents in with everything else.  Also, I saw or heard somewhere that the IDY has more live cultures than ADY.

Bill

[Pete-zza]

Bill,

No, I am not saying that active dry yeast (ADY) can be used the same way as IDY. I have read of instances where bakers have simply added the ADY to the flour, perhaps to delay the activation of the yeast, but that is not the way it is recommended to be used by the yeast producers themselves. For normal applications, the ADY should be rehydrated in warm water, at the proper temperature and for the proper time (no more than 15-20 minutes). The way that Tom Lehmann puts it is as follows:

ADY must be hydrated in warm water (100 to 105F) before it can be added to the dough ingredients in the bowl. This is a potential problem area as we have found that very few people actually measure the temperature of the water and water that is either too hot or too cold by as little as 5F can and will adversely affect the yeast activity.

What I have started doing when hydrating ADY is to use the temperature probe that came with my microwave unit to get the hydrating water at the proper temperature, which I enter at the panel of the microwave unit. As soon as the entered temperature is reached (the microwave produces a beep), I double check the water temperature using an instant read thermometer. With my microwave and instant read thermometer, the difference is about a couple degrees.

As for the duration of the hydration, you may find this Lehmann PMQ post of interest: http://www.pmq.com/cgi-bin/bbs/archive7.cgi?read=4317.

You are correct that IDY has more live yeast cells than ADY. That is one of the reasons it is called “instant” dry yeast. The IDY is also of a different strain, with different physical characteristics that allow it to just be added to the flour. For a good tutorial on yeast, you may find this Lehmann article of interest: http://pizzatoday.com/production_articles.shtml?article=NzlzdXBlcjc2c2VjcmV0ODM=.

You are also correct about the way that bread machines are able to use ADY. With my unit, the ADY, or the Fleischmann’s Rapid-Rise yeast, is added to the flour, and kept out of contact with the water. I suspect that the ADY gets sufficient hydration from moisture in the flour during the preheating of all the ingredients during the preheat cycle, which in my machine can be several minutes. Plus, with bread machines, at least mine, there is a lot of heat produced during the usually long knead times associated with bread doughs, which should also help activate the ADY if there is any doubt.

Peter

[briterian]

So here my family sits eating the last of my modified recipe to Steve's quick and easy NY pie - and we are all very satisfied.  It's turned it out great.

Here is the Briterian's Modified Recipe.

10.7 oz High Gluten Flour
7 1/8 oz of Water (I changed this from Steve's original 7.4 oz)
1 tsp salt (I changed this from Steve's original 3/4 tsp)
3/4 tsp IDY
2 tsp EVOO (this wasn't in Steve's original)

My goal was to add more crust flavor.  I also preheated the oven to 475 instead of Steve's suggested 550 and cooked it for 12 minutes.  The crust turned out great.  Great chew, great moisture. The true test was my son Jonah - 3 1/2 yrs old having two pieces. 

I think I'll be using this for awhile with the only future mod may be up'in the salt to 1 1/4 tsp and using my mixer to make two crusts instead of just one with food processor.

[Pete-zza]

briterian,

Thanks for taking the lead on the mini-experiments on Steve's recipe and for posting your results.

If you like the flavor of garlic, next time you might coat the rim of the pizza before baking with a mixture of butter and garlic. Or you can coat the unbaked rim with oil, for a bit more flavor.

If you decide to increase the salt to 1 1/4 t., you may want to keep in mind that that amount comes to about 2.3% (by weight of the flour). The max usually recommended for salt in most doughs is around 2%. It may not matter much for a few hours dough, but I mention it so that you can note whether it has an effect if you decide to use more salt.

Peter

[SteveVit]

I tried this recipe 4 months ago and I'm still using it! I have changed the amount of flour to make a less hydrated dough mainly because I've had problems with wet dough sticking to my metal peel. I'll also adjust the amount of instant dry yeast depending on a quick or slow rise.

Steve's quick & easy NY pie

10.7 oz. (by weight) high gluten flour
7.4 oz. (by weight) cold water
3/4 tsp. salt
3/4 tsp. instant dry yeast
 
I’ve been using the following to make a less hydrated dough

12 oz. (by weight) high gluten flour 
7.4 oz. (by weight) cold water
3/4 tsp. salt
1/4-3/4 tsp. instant dry yeast (depends on cold or quick rise)

Baked in between 700-800 degrees for about 2 minutes.

[SteveVit]

Here's another pie using the original recipe.

[David]

That looks much,much better than what I ate at Vic's (Bradley Beach, NJ),and you rate them as Good!

[Jack]

That looks much,much better than what I ate at Vic's (Bradley Beach, NJ),and you rate them as Good!

C'mon on.  At least half to 3/4 of the pizza pictures posted here look better than anything you can buy.

jack

[Scagnetti]

C'mon on.  At least half to 3/4 of the pizza pictures posted here look better than anything you can buy.

jack

You are absolutely correct.  Even taking into consideration that nobody is going to post a picture of a bad pizza, if there is such a thing, there are a lot of people on this site who bake a helluva' pie.  And these aren't tricked up photos either like you see in magazines and books.

I consider myself a very good cook and yes I've screwed up my share of pizzas as we all have. But let me tell you, as much as I don't like admitting it, I can't touch some of the pizza makers on this site. It's astounding what they can do.

[husker3in4]

Question: How much flour and water is in Steve's original recipe based on cups?

[Pete-zza]

husker3in4,

For the flour, try out the King Arthur Sir Lancelot selection in the menu at http://tools.foodsim.com/. As for the water, 7.4 ounces is a bit more than 7/8 c.

Peter

[Pete-zza]

husker3in4,

Since Novermber created the tool, we may want to have him confirm your inputs into the tool. What did you get for the conversion of 10.7 ounces to cups, spoons, etc.?

Peter

[husker3in4]

Thanks Peter, the link shows it converts to 2 1/3 cups + 2 tsp. I'll bookmark it!

Does anyone have mixing times when using this recipe with a KA mixer?