Steve's quick & easy NY pie

[Steve]

A 12 hour rise will certainly help with the flavor.

When I make this particular dough, it's a very "wet" dough... I have to knead and shape the balls using a liberal coating of flour.

[Scagnetti]

Steve,

Other than KASL, can you recommend any other high gluten flours that are easily available?

Scagnetti

[Pete-zza]

Scagnetti,

Are you from the Dallas area by any chance?

Peter

[Scagnetti]

Are you from the Dallas area by any chance?

Peter

Yes I am.  How did you know?

Scagnetti

[Pete-zza]

Scagnetti,

It seemed to me that I saw your distinctive name at the Chowhound forum some time ago, and you were discussing bagels and other Dallas-area culinary matters.

The reason I asked is because you may be able to get a large bag of the KASL locally, at a reasonable price (under $13 for a 50-lb. bag), as I did a while ago from Dawn Foods, in Garland. I don't know if Dawn's policies and practices on cash-and-carry sales have changed since I got my bag of KASL, but you may want to look into the matter if you are interested in the KASL. Another good brand of high-gluten flour would be the All Trumps from General Mills but I don't know if Dawn carries that particular brand.

For further details on Dawn and my experience with them, you may want to take a look at Reply 7 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1907.0.html.

Peter

[Scagnetti]

It seemed to me that I saw your distinctive name at the Chowhound forum some time ago, and you were discussing bagels and other Dallas-area culinary matters.

The reason I asked is because you may be able to get a large bag of the KASL locally, at a reasonable price (under $13 for a 50-lb. bag), as I did a while ago from Dawn Foods, in Garland. I don't know if Dawn's policies and practices on cash-and-carry sales have changed since I got my bag of KASL, but you may want to look into the matter if you are interested in the KASL. Another good brand of high-gluten flour would be the All Trumps from General Mills but I don't know if Dawn carries that particular brand.

Peter

Correct you are sir!  In fact, that's how I found pizzamaking.com was through Chowhound.  I've directed many a person to this site for pizza help.

Thanks for the tip on Dawn's, I'll look into it.  Like you, I found out that the cost of ordering a 3 lb bag of KASL from KA was ridiculous so I was looking for other options.

Thanks again!

Scagnetti

[Wallman]

I tried Steve's Quick & Easy recipe again today with good success. One major change from the basic recipe. I let the dough rise for about 6.5 hours.  The pizza was quite tasty, topped with an uncooked sauce using 6-1 tomatoes, Penzy's pizza spices, red wine vinegar, olive oil, sugar, and Cello fresh mozzarella (from Costco), fresh oregano (from our garden) and Cello shredded parmesan.

The dough easily doubled in size after the long rise time. There were a number of bubbles after about 6 hours, so I reshaped the dough ball and let it sit for about an hour before shapping.  The dough was sticky, but not too hard to manipulate with generous bench flour.  Below is a picture of the dough ball right before I shaped the pizza (plus 2 Neapolitan balls).  2 pictures of the baked pie follow.

[Scagnetti]

I tried Steve's Quick & Easy recipe again today with good success. One major change from the basic recipe. I let the dough rise for about 6.5 hours...

Is that 6.5 hours refrigerated or at room temperature?

[Wallman]

Room temperature, about 75-78 degrees.

[Lydia]

I made this recipe with a 6 qt. KA and the new spiral hook. I got some very nice results.

The only modification to the formula was to add 1 tsp. instant non-fat powdered milk, for a bit more browning and tenderness. The browning was more pronouced when I tried a 6 hr. refrigerated rest.  The crust was also crispier while still maintaining it's "foldability factor",  flavor was heighened dramtically. This was by far, our favorite, but I like the convience of the 2hr. version.

 I'm using La Romanella HG and I don't have any specs. on this flour. With this formula it produced a crust with a light and pleasant chewiness.

I'm thinking about increasing the salt for the 2 hour rise method, to compensate for the lack of flavor.

Becasue I'm using a 6 qt. bowl, I had to use the padle attachment for the initial forming. It took under a minute and it was a bit of a tacky mess to remove from the paddle, not too bad though. * From here on out I will be making double batches only. I'm looking forward to making the left-over dough as crusty individual dinner-loaves served with pasta.*

I turned the dough in on itself 2 or 3 times to form into a uniform ball for autolysis step.

Covered with plastic wrap for the 30 minutes specified. In one experiement I got away with a 20 minute autolyse and didn't notice any difference from the 30 minutes.

After the autolysis, and pouring in the last of the dry ingredients, I was able to use the hook. It was able to grab the dough and knead as it should.

I have been kneading the dough on speed 3 for about 2 minutes. I didn't use olive oil, but instead gave the bowl and dough ball a light spritz with PAM. I'm trying to reduce the amount of oil absorbed by the dough and it's a bit quicker.

I tried a 2 hour rise at room temperature and also in a slightly warmed oven. Both methods had nearly identical results. Both doughs were saturated with tiny bubbleswith similar amount of spread/rise. I gently deflated them by carefully turning them in on itself once to form into puffy uniform ball(s) - so not tight and dense.

I combined methods to form the skins.
On a moderatedly floured suface, I turned the dough for a light coating, I depressed them with fingers tips to distribute the bubbles, turning dough to do it's backside, then back to the smoother surface to get a nice round thick disc. I proceeded to a small hand-type roller. I like using the hand-roller for it is ablity to displace the larger bubbles to the outer edge while allowing me to get the center evenly rolled thin without disturbing the lip. It also can be used with lighter pressure than those that requires both hands, "therefore bubble-friendly". I finished with some streching to get the final desired size. Oh yeah.. I did have a small tear once and it mended very easily by pinching the opening together, and I was able to continue to strech the dough without the tear re-opening.

Since this is a wetter dough, the formed pizzas were a bit more challenging to slide from the peel. I used a long bladed spatual to assist it into the oven without any mishaps. It wasn't stuck it was just a bit resistant to sliding in with a simple jerk of the peel. The peel was dusted with both semolina and flour.

My oven only goes to 500F, or so it says. The pizzas took about 7 minutes on a stone preheated for 1 hour. I allowed about 10 to 15 minutes between baking pizzas to allow the stone to reheat.

[Lydia]

Sorry... It looks like the lense got steamed-up on one of the pics. I thought it showed the crust color enough to post though.

Poly-O whole milk mozz and Monterey Jack, Galelileo Pepperoni.

[Pete-zza]

Lydia,

Becasue I'm using a 6 qt. bowl, I had to use the padle attachment for the initial forming. It took under a minute and it was a bit of a tacky mess to remove from the paddle, not too bad though.

With your new machine, I am sure you are anxious to use it to do everything it can. However, you may want to consider starting the mixing of the dough using a simple wooden spoon instead of the paddle. The paddle can get quite messy and, to the extent that some of the dough remains on the paddle after you have used it (and even tried to remove all the stuff that sticks to it), you may have to adjust the flour and water (add more) to maintain the initial dough weight, especially if you weighed the ingredients to start. I have a lesser KA machine than yours, but I have come to prefer doing the initial mixing of ingredients using a spoon. I remove the bowl from the mixer, add the water and salt (and sugar, if used), stir to dissolve, and then I add the flour (with the IDY) gradually to the liquid while I stir it with a large wooden spoon. The gradual addition and stirring of the flour into the water prevents clumping and allows good hydration while not developing the gluten to any significant degree. When I can no longer stir the dough with the spoon, I replace the bowl on the mixer, attach the dough hook, and gradually add the remaining flour. After about a minute or so of kneading, I add the oil and, after that has been incorporated, I allow the mixer to do the final kneading. With my machine, I have found this approach to work better than using either the paddle or the dough hook for the initial dough workup.

FYI, the technique you described for rolling out and shaping the dough is one that is similar to what is often done by pizza operators who have sheeters. They will use the sheeter to stretch the dough out part way, for example, about 2" shy of the desired final size. They then stretch the dough out the remaining 2" by hand and form a rim. By using this approach, the skin takes on a more hand-stretched quality. It is also easier for the workers whose job it is to shape the skins, especially those who are challenged in this area. The approach also keeps the center of the skin at a uniform thickness, without thin spots or tears that can form when only hand stretching is used. 

Peter

[Lydia]

With your new machine, I am sure you are anxious to use it to do everything it can. However, you may want to consider starting the mixing of the dough using a simple wooden spoon instead of the paddle

Actually, I'm having trouble with my shoulder so stirring "can" be a bit uncomfortable.  I will keep that in mind when it's not bothering me as much.

I agree that stirring the flour into the water would be much more efficient. When I'm instructing my son I will teach him you're recommended method. I might just assign the stirring as part of his share in the pizza making task. If anyone can make other recommendations, that would limit my arm use, especially those that require your arms to be out in front (like stretching and tossing) that would produce similar results I'd like to hear them.

Oh...I do have a professional food processor (Robot Coupe) but I opted out since it meant that would have to lift the heavy thing out of the cupbard upto the counter-top.

The paddle can get quite messy and, to the extent that some of the dough remains on the paddle after you have used it (and even tried to remove all the stuff that sticks to it), you may have to adjust the flour and water (add more) to maintain the initial dough weight, especially if you weighed the ingredients to start.

I'm weighing flour and water as indicated by Steve's formula. I didn't make any compensation for the addition of the non-fat milk powder. The dough was more tacky than sticky (maybe due to a bit of gluten development or maybe the flour since I don't have the specs.) and it was pretty easy to pluck the clinging dough from the paddle and tuck it in when folding it in on itself. I would just rather not have to. Thank you for recommendation that would have omitted that step... if it wasn't for my shoulder. 

FYI, the technique you described for rolling out and shaping the dough is one that is similar to what is often done by pizza operators who have sheeters

Yes, I agree.
 I think the primary differences would be, that I'm never rolling over the rim, allowing the bubbles to stay intact.  I was too anxious to eat other-wise I would have got a pic of the cornice. The bumps in the outer rim aren't solid dough, these are enlarged bubbles.

Also, I imagine that I'm using much lighter pressure than some of the table-top sheeters that I have been able to observe. Haven't used one, so I dont really know.

Thanks for the recommendations Peter.

AND

Thanks Steve for posting this formula, we're really enjoying it!

[Lydia]

Quick update on the KA version.

Just made a double recipe using Peter's suggestion for stirring the flour into the water and following up with the hook for just a few rotations to incorporate the last of the flour. I did not include the salt, yeast or powder milk in this step. But will incorporate it after the autolysis phase.

Dough is much wetter. So much that it can't be formed into a ball. The previous method produced a tackier tighter dough that can be formed.

Conclusion: mixing method caused the different dough feel and not the brand of flour.

[Scagnetti]

Dough Recipe

10.7 oz. (by weight) high gluten flour
7.4 oz. (by weight) cold water
3/4 tsp. salt
3/4 tsp. instant dry yeast

Makes one 16" pizza.

Steve,

Can you recommend ingredient proportions for a 14" pie?

Thanks.

Scagnetti

[Pete-zza]

Scagnetti,

I believe Steve is out of town. However, some time ago I converted Steve's recipe to baker's percents and I calculated the thickness factor (TF). For a 14" pizza--the size you requested--the numbers work out as follows:

100%, High-gluten flour (KASL), 8.20 oz. (232.18 g.)
69.2%, Water, 5.67 oz. (160.67 g.)
1.4%, Salt, 0.11 oz. (3.25 g.), a bit over 1/2 t.
0.75%, Instant dry yeast (IDY), 0.06 oz. (1.74 g.), a bit over 1/2 t.
Thickness factor (TF) = 0.09116
Total dough weight = 14.03 oz. (397.39 g.): for one 14" dough
Note: all measurements are U.S./metric standard

Peter

[Lydia]

I want use this formula to make-up a pre-measured pizza kit for my sister.

My sister just moved out of the state and only has access to Domino's. I thought this would be a good pizzza for them. Her husband is used to forming pizzas with a dough similar to this and obviously it's"Quik N EZ".



Can I combine the yeast, sugar salt and dry milk together or does the yeast need to reamin separate?

I know the yeast should be in a dark moisture free environment. So I was thinking of the tiny ziplock type baggies and then placing them in a tiny manilla type envelope.

I thought of making up dough balls and freezing them, but I rather not since she'll be traveling over the state border.

[Pete-zza]

I want use this formula to make-up a pre-measured pizza kit for my sister....Can I combine the yeast, sugar salt and dry milk together or does the yeast need to reamin separate? I know the yeast should be in a dark moisture free environment. So I was thinking of the tiny ziplock type baggies and then placing them in a tiny manilla type envelope.

Lydia,

You can do as you propose without any problem. However, keep in mind that Steve's recipe makes use of the classical autolyse process, which you could not exactly implement if you combine ingredients as you propose to do.

Peter

[Lydia]

Ooops

I failed to mention that I would have the HG flour premeasured in a larger zipper bag. Then have the other dry ingredients in a smaller baggie/envelope as an inclusion.

So I was asking if the yeast would need to be separate in addition to the sugar salt and drymilk powder.

or did I fail to consider something else?

[Pete-zza]

Lydia,

If you go back to Steve's original recipe, as I did to refresh my memory, you will see that he uses the classic autolyse as conceived by Professor Calvel. The flour and water are first combined and subjected to a 30-minute autolyse (rest), and then the yeast and salt are added. There are good reasons for this particular sequencing of the ingredients and where the autolyse rest period is introduced into the sequence. If you mix the salt, yeast, dry milk powder, and sugar together in your little "goody" bag as you propose, even separately from the flour, then you (or your sister/brother-in-law) cannot follow the precise sequence used by Steve. Whether that is good or bad is hard to say without doing some experimentation, but I know that many of the pizza chains use prepackaged flour formulations (in big bags) that include flour, yeast, salt and sugar (plus whatever other ingredients make up the dough formulation). The workers who make the dough then only need to add the right amount of water.

I would make up a little goody bag like you propose and give it a dry run. I would personally add the goody bag ingredients to the flour since I don't see any reason why the flour has to be isolated. Of course, using that approach rules out the autolyse since everything is mixed together from the start and the dough will start to rest as soon it has been kneaded.

Peter