Author Topic: Trying this one last time - Where can I find that delicious cheese used in NY?  (Read 24522 times)

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Offline tourmaline

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Thanks, Norma - yes, I needed a break from thinking about pizza cloning. I usually try to make one tiny personal pizza per day or every other day, and with each one I experiment with a different sauce Iíve whipped up, or different cheese combination. I got really frustrated that night because I was experimenting with making my sauce from scratch with fresh plum tomatoes, and on some days it tasted similar to the pizza Iím trying to clone, and other days it tasted completely different. Hence my frustration.
Around Christmas, I had to step away from pizza making and concentrate on the busy holiday season, which was a good thing.

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AnywayÖfor anyone who is interested in my progress since the last message I posted in which I was about to  storm the bastille lolÖ.read onÖ..

I did indeed end up going to the police station and they said that they could not give me a simple answer on the legality of dumpster diving, because there were separate issues of personal property & trespassing involved. So I said thanks and headed for the dumpster! Unfortunately at my pizzeria, the dumpster opening was high up and I couldnít reach any of the few bags at the bottom.
So I walked over to the small recycling bin with all their cardboard boxes. The only cheese box I found was a ricotta box by Della Vita (the FSA house brand).

After that I headed over to FSA to quiz them. After finding the ricotta box by Della Vita, I was sure they must use that brand of Mozz too.  The lady from sales came and she had her laptop with their inventory and I was quizzing her about which loaves of whole milk mozz are available. I told her I was trying to find which brand this specific restaurant uses and she said, ďOh, well let me check for you.Ē I almost fainted! I thought, Yes! Now I will have the key!
She pulls up their contract and starts naming off all the cheeses that they use: Stella Romano, Della Vita Ricotta, etc.
But no mozzarella at all!
She said they donít order any mozzarella from FSA.
She said it appeared they had been contracted for Galbani mozzarella, but that itís not current. She said itís not uncommon for restaurants to use several different food service vendors.

So I think they MAY regularly use Galbani - I would assume they use Galbani Premium Whole Milk Low Moisture Mozzarella, which is the food service Galbani mozz. It has more fat than most WM Mozzarellas...

So a few days later I went to my fave pizzeria again to snoop. This time I had someone with me, so I felt bolder. I ended up grabbing two trash bags from the trash and throwing them in the back of my vehicle. I also snooped more in their cardboard boxes, and I did see a Sysco box - so I know they use Sysco as well as FSA. Unfortunately I canít buy from Sysco like I can from FSA. But I did not see any mozzarella or other cheese boxes.

So I get the trash bags home, take them into the kitchen, and the bags are filthy and greasy and disgusting, getting slime  all over my shirt. Ugh.. I look inside one and itís just filled with a huge, heavy folded up piece of wax paper covered in tons of cooking grease. Blech!
The other bag was just full of napkins - just napkins!  I think it may have been the bag from the restroom.
So it was a total failure. I wonít be grabbing trash bags anymore - the cardboard recycling bin is much more promising and less disgusting.

So today I went to my local food service Cash & Carry store, and they are going to get back to me about whether they can order the Galbani Premium mozz. I really hope they can. I came to a realization that itís not the sauce - it really is their CHEESE that gives the distinctive flavor. I was mistaken when I thought it was the sauce. The cheese is indeed the key.

Tonight I made a small pizza using all provolone, which has a piquancy that mozzarella in general tends to lack. I used the sauce that the restaurant gave me and it tasted much more like their pizza than Iíve ever experienced before. So? Maybe they donít use mozzarella at all, maybe they use a provolone for their pies. I just donít know. Hopefully I can get some Galbani Premium and see if that adds the right flavor. I know in the nutrition info, it contains more fat than most other WM LF Mozzarellas, so maybe thatís what adds all the flavor to their pizza.

I need to do a really thorough snooping session in their recycling bin and see if I can find a mozzarella box. They either use a really flavorful mozzarella or an aged provolone.  I was not able to distinguish which it was in that sample of cheese I was given, but the cashier said they use mozzarella, so maybe itís Galbani mozz! Iíve got my fingers crossed that thatís it and I can get my hands on some.

If anyoneís tried Galbani Premium WM LM Mozz, please chime in and report on how flavorful it is!


Offline dmcavanagh

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this was mentioned in another thread, Galbani is the same as Sorrento mozzarella, if you go to the grocery store and pick up a 1 lb. package, both names are on it. I'm not sure where you got your information that it contains more fat than other mozzarellas, but I question that. I like and use Sorrento mozzarella, but NO commercial mozzarellas are anything special IMHO. I buy my Sorrento in 5lb. loaves at a restaurant distributor, and I usually enhance it with a mix of other cheeses (also mentioned in another thread).
Rest In Peace - November 1, 2014

Offline tourmaline

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this was mentioned in another thread, Galbani is the same as Sorrento mozzarella, if you go to the grocery store and pick up a 1 lb. package, both names are on it. I'm not sure where you got your information that it contains more fat than other mozzarellas, but I question that. I like and use Sorrento mozzarella, but NO commercial mozzarellas are anything special IMHO. I buy my Sorrento in 5lb. loaves at a restaurant distributor, and I usually enhance it with a mix of other cheeses (also mentioned in another thread).

Sorrento & Precious are both cheeses under the umbrella of Galbani, but that does not mean that all of the  whole milk mozzarellas under the Galbani umbrella come from the same place and are identical to each other.

I got the info on Galbani Premium WM LM Mozzarella (which is the food service branch of Galbani/Lactalis) from the PDF on this site:

http://lactalisculinary.com/cheese/?productId=1569#loaves

In their PDF for the Galbani Premium Whole Milk Low Moisture Mozzarella, it states that there is:

100 Calories per Serving
8 grams of fat
70 calories from fat

compared to most WM LM Mozzarellas, which seem to have:

90 Calories per Serving
7 grams of fat
60 calories from fat

Offline dmcavanagh

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Just as I have always suspected that there is a difference between the food service and grocery store versions of Sorrento cheese, the same must be true  of Galbani. I have three 1 lb. grocery store bought mozzarellas in hand, Polly-O, 6g fat, 80 calories, Biazzo, 6g fat, 90 calories, Galbani/Sorrento (both names are attached to the packaging) 7g fat, 90 calories. I'm not sure how the discrepencies in fat to calories is accounted for between the three products, but in the end there isn't much difference. I have resently become more of a fan of Saputo Cheese's Dragone mozzarella, I will check their fat and calorie content and report back. My guess is it will be essentially the same as as the ones stated above, likewise for Saputo's other mozzarella, Figaro. I don't have a 5 pound block of Sorrento on hand at the moment, but I won't be at all surprised if it exactly the same as stated for the Galbani. Sorrento's ricotta is made in two different formulas, the one you pick up at your grocery store will most likely contain gar gum and some other additives, while a 3 lb. tub from a restaurant supply will be purer, just milk, salt and enzyemes. Why do they confuse us this way? ???
Rest In Peace - November 1, 2014

Offline dmcavanagh

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Frigo, not Figaro!
Rest In Peace - November 1, 2014

Offline norma427

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Zoe,

I think you are finding out how hard it is to clone a pizzerias pizza if you don't have the nutrition facts, know the exact ingredients and so forth.

You are doing a great job at sleuthing to find out what you can.  :P

You can see I posted a photo of the Galbani Sorrento part-skim mozzarella at Reply 122  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,27952.msg293674.html#msg293674  From my experiences on trying that supermarket mozzarella on different pizzas it really does not have that much flavor unless another cheese is added.

I hope you can find the Galbani Premium mozzarella at your local food service Cash and Carry store.

Your dumpster diving exploits had me chuckling but I know how gross that can be.   :-X

Norma

Offline Pete-zza

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Zoe,

Having paid attention to the subject matter of dumpster diving over the years, I would say that the intent of the party disposing of trash governs whether dumpster diving is permissible or not. For example, I would say that in most states if one places trash in the open on the sidewalk for permanent disposal, that placement would be considered abandonment of the trash. So, if someone with a pickup truck roams the streets on trash pickup day looking for salvageable trash, as is common in many cities, that would not be against the law. However, if someone--such as a business--were to place trash in a locked or enclosed area, or if a private property or no trespassing sign were to be placed in a visible place near the trash storage area, that would indicate that the owner is treating the trash as private property and not abandoning it as in the previous example. It is perhaps unlikely that the owner would take action against someone caught with their hands on their trash, but it is a possibility, and maybe particularly so if the miscreant were a competitor or prospective competitor looking for trade secrets. An isolated individual might get chewed out and be given a warning not to dumpster dive there again, but not prosecuted.

It is always a good idea to check whether in any given state there are laws that govern dumpster diving. Such laws would dictate what trash is fair game to take and what trash constitutes private property of the owner.

Peter
« Last Edit: December 28, 2013, 04:07:10 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline Chicago Bob

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Zoe,

Having paid attention to the subject matter of dumpster diving over the years, I would say that the intent of the party disposing of trash governs whether dumpster diving is permissible or not. For example, I would say that in most states if one places trash in the open on the sidewalk for permanent disposal, that placement would be considered abandonment of the trash. So, if someone with a pickup truck roams the streets on trash pickup day looking for salvageable trash, as is common in many cities, that would not be against the law. However, if someone--such as a business--were to place trash in a locked or enclosed area, or if a private property or no trespassing sign were to be placed in a visible place near the trash storage area, that would indicate that owner is treating the trash as private property and not abandoning it as in the previous example. It is perhaps unlikely that the owner would take action against someone caught with their hands on their trash, but it is a possibility, and maybe particularly so if the miscreant were a competitor or prospective competitor looking for trade secrets. An isolated individual might get chewed out and be given a warning not to dumpster dive there again, but not prosecuted.

It is always a good idea to check whether in any given state there are laws that govern dumpster diving. Such laws would dictate what trash is fair game to take and what trash constitutes private property of the owner.

Peter
I would think that the owner of the dumpster itself would be the legal concern here..." if you get hurt while climbing on my dumpster I'm not liable because you trespassed...etc.". And the contents of the dumpster is the property of the man that owns said dumpster.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2013, 03:55:05 PM by Chicago Bob »
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline Pete-zza

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Bob,

I was only trying to address the issue of the rights of individuals to trash but you are correct that there are other legal issues involved, such as you mentioned. Also, there apparently are dumpsters that are easier and safer to get into without risking bodily harm than other dumpster designs. I don't actually know who owns the dumpsters, the trash hauling company or the businesses using them. I would guess that the trash hauling companies own the actual dumpsters and lease them to businesses or otherwise factor them in the overall price to businesses. But in most cases neither would be responsible for injuries sustained by individuals who went into the dumpsters for dumpster diving purposes or other improper uses. For example, there have been quite a few deaths and injuries to people--such as homeless people--who chose to catch some shuteye in dumpsters.

As for the ultimate owner of the contents of dumpsters, I would imagine that the municipalities, landfill owners and recycling centers that contract with the trash haulers would own the contents of the dumpsters.

I am also sure that there are some grey areas where it is not entirely clear what the rights are with respect to trash. For example, a business owner might choose to place trash in dumpsters in an enclosed area, without any warning signs, simply to shield the dumpsters and trash from public view as much as possible. So, it might be largely an esthetics issue.

Peter
« Last Edit: December 28, 2013, 05:21:47 PM by Pete-zza »


Offline dmcavanagh

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Dragone mozzarella 1 oz., 90 calories, 7g fat
Rest In Peace - November 1, 2014

Offline tourmaline

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DMCavanagh, thank you for the info. Yes, 90 calories & 7g fat is standard for mozzarellas labeled as Low Moisture Whole Milk varieties - I personally havenít seen anything other than that until I saw the nutrition info for Galbani Premium. Maybe theyíre fudging their numbers to make their product appear special? How would they be able to get more fat into their whole milk mozz, I wonder.
But yes, I have heard that food service mozzarella tends to be higher quality or more flavorful than grocery store WM mozzarella. I think member Scott123 has stated several times that thereís no comparison with WM LM Mozz from grocery store vs from food service, that generally food service  is significantly better.  I know that most of the grocery store WM LM mozzies Iíve had tend to have zero flavor. My current food service mozz loaf is by First Street Gold and it has a bit more flavor than grocery store, but still not amazing or anything. At my Cash & Carry, they have another WM LM Mozz by Gardenia/Saputo, but the color of the cheese & nutrition info were exactly the same as my First Street Gold, so I think I'll skip it and focus on getting ahold of the Galbani Premium.

Norma, thank you very much for the compliment. Yes indeed, it is very challenging. But I know that if I am persistent, it will pay off and Iíll be able to get the flavor right. Itís just a matter of experimenting and rifling through their recycling bin every time Iím in the neighborhood!  8)

Pete, thanks for the info. Yes, dumpster diving  is a multi-faceted issue. Thatís what the cop told me. I feel much better about going through their cardboard boxes in the recycling bin than stealing the trash from their dumpster, because not only are the cardboard boxes a wealth of very specific information, and much less filthyÖbut itís also very  common for people to be looking for cardboard boxes so it provides a great excuse if anyone gives me a hard time: ďWell, sir, Iím just looking for some large boxes because Iím going to be moving in a couple weeks.Ē   :D

Offline nycpizzaguy

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The primary distributor that I saw during my college days doing waiter and kitchen work in Manhattan was Campagna Foods right out of the Battery Tunnel from Lower Manhattan. Since their facility was so close to Manhattan, a lot of the pizzerias would call on them for last minute, next day deliveries, etc. Anyhow, I recall the predominant cheese they sold being the Margarita, which is on their website at campagnafoods.com. It was very creamy, and had a melt conducive to the heavy volume stores in the city do during lunch time.

I'm not sure on the specifics of who packs the cheese or which plant its from, but Margarita was definitely the big pizza cheese in Manhattan, at least back in 2002-2005.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2013, 04:03:56 PM by nycpizzaguy »

Offline Zing

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Lets keep this thread going. nycpizzaguy gave the name of yet another supplier to NYC metro area pizza parlors. If you see a truck making deliveries to a good pizza joint, post their name of the distributor here!
I think the answer to the title of this thread -"Trying this one last time - Where can I find that delicious cheese used in NY?" - is found in the name of businesses that were given in this thread - those independent Italian foods distributors based in the NYC metro area.  I can never recall a SYSCO or a US Foods delivering to a really good mom-and-pop pizzeria.


None of these guys are making their own cheese. They all have their own house brands. But with all these house brands, there are only a few cheese suppliers making the stuff for everyone. But only the folks on this forum have a vested interest in knowing who sells what to whom. These distributors compete on price and service to get business from pizzerias. They don't want the pizzeria owner knowing where the private label cheese comes from.

But this database will help people at least on the east coast to locate "the good stuff" - the stuff not sold at retail.

Offline ricky2brown

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Scott - How would you rate calabro vs the RD brand? I've got a friend who has a RD membership and just got the OK from her boss to use the account so I plan on picking up some supplies and ingredients to test out, would love to hear your opinion.


Hello all and "Happy 2014"

I have been challenged by many pizza shop owners to find a better cheese than Grade cheese. I also found that Grande cheese is not worth all the hoopla it's been getting. Its bland and lacks stretch-ability, (without being tough, chewy and overbearing) that the great NY pizza shops possess.

Results: Calabro Cheese is the way to go. It's by far a much better product than Grande Cheese and that's all around.
Their Ricotta is to die for.  I'm currently the SE distributor for Calabro Cheese and would love to help make our product readily available in your area and at a very affordable cost.

please contact me at your convenience.

Offline norcoscia

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Hi ricky2brown, I live in San Diego and I have been trying to find this style of Calabro, see pic - do you have any suggestions!


Offline ricky2brown

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I have had Calabro ricotta, and it is very good.  Unfortunately, I have not been able to get in ordered in thru my local Price Chopper any more.  I will try to track down the mozzarella.   Mark

Hello Mark, 

I'm a distributor for Calabro Cheese....Let me know What, when, where and how much your needing and i will make it happen.

Thank you,

Sedrick (Ricky2brown)
peachcorp1@gmail.com
Calabro Cheese Distributor

Offline communist

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Thanks!  I will e-mail you now.   Mark :D


Offline mbrulato

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I have had Calabro ricotta, and it is very good.  Unfortunately, I have not been able to get in ordered in thru my local Price Chopper any more.  I will try to track down the mozzarella.   Mark

Hello Mark, 

I'm a distributor for Calabro Cheese....Let me know What, when, where and how much your needing and i will make it happen.

Thank you,

Sedrick (Ricky2brown)
peachcorp1@gmail.com
Calabro Cheese Distributor

Sedrick,

I can get Calabro cheese from my local Whole Foods, but they only come in 8oz and 16oz packages.  Do you deal with larger sized loaves?  I am located in NJ.

Thank you,
Mary Ann

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Lets keep this thread going. nycpizzaguy gave the name of yet another supplier to NYC metro area pizza parlors. If you see a truck making deliveries to a good pizza joint, post their name of the distributor here!

How bout this one, Zing? (I'll explain it when I get back to the computer.)
Ryan
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Disclaimer: Don't necessarily believe anything I say here. My brain ain't quite right anymore (unless it is). If I come off as rude or argumentative, that's probably not my intention. Rather, that's just me being honest, to myself and everyone else; partly because I don't have enough time left to BS either you or myself. If you are offended by anything I say, it's probably because you think lying to people (to be "polite") is a good idea. I don't.

Offline Aimless Ryan

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The only reason I took a picture of that truck (in fall 2011) was because of the misspelling (because I just get a kick out of that kind of thing). I believe this was on Broadway in uptown Manhattan (80s-100s or so). I could tell you exactly where it was if I had never updated my iPhone. Funny that there's a word in the picture that I've never noticed before and never could have imagined would become at all meaningful.
Ryan
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Disclaimer: Don't necessarily believe anything I say here. My brain ain't quite right anymore (unless it is). If I come off as rude or argumentative, that's probably not my intention. Rather, that's just me being honest, to myself and everyone else; partly because I don't have enough time left to BS either you or myself. If you are offended by anything I say, it's probably because you think lying to people (to be "polite") is a good idea. I don't.

Offline Aimless Ryan

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OK, I figured out how to find pictures by map in my phone. (It used to be much easier to do that.) It looks like the above picture was taken on Columbus Avenue, just north of 82nd Street. The map says there is a Famous Original Ray's right there (and "Zingone Brothers" across the street). From what I remember, Famous Original Ray's is one of my least favorite slice joints in NYC. For whatever that's worth.
Ryan
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Disclaimer: Don't necessarily believe anything I say here. My brain ain't quite right anymore (unless it is). If I come off as rude or argumentative, that's probably not my intention. Rather, that's just me being honest, to myself and everyone else; partly because I don't have enough time left to BS either you or myself. If you are offended by anything I say, it's probably because you think lying to people (to be "polite") is a good idea. I don't.

Offline Chicago Bob

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Zing!  ;D
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Offline dsissitka

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Offline Zing

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Great photo, Ryan! Inside that truck is where you will find that delicious cheese used in NY pizzerias. I've been using Google Street Views, clickable from many addresses you put into maps.google.com, to see what is on that block in Manhattan. Zingone Brothers is at 471 Columbus Avenue. Famous Original Ray's Pizza is down the block a bit (Columbus Avenue is one way southbound) at 462 Columbus Avenue. The Google Street View (dated 2011) shows a US Foodservice (now US Foods) truck parked where the Montebello truck was parked in your picture. It is hard to tell if that Montebello delivery was for Famous Ray's:
http://www.rayspizza.com/Location.html
or to another establishment around 472 Columbus Ave, directly across the street from  Zingone Brothers (no relation).

Montebello also has house brand mozzarella:
http://www.montebellofoods.com/Cheeses_Mozzarella.html
Just like Campagna.

I used to eat in another Famous Ray's all the time (there is a long story about the slice joints calling themselves Ray's) that got deliveries in a plain white panel truck. Wish I could remember the name of the distributor. The manager paid the driver in cash.

I guess Norma would also be interested in a database of who makes these cheeses, and how many different brands a given cheese is sold under.

Offline Zing

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On the subject of Calabro cheese, their website lists all the different cheeses they sell. They also offer 6 pound loaves of mozzarella, presumably sold to foodservice operators, in addition to 8 oz and 16 oz retail packages. What would be crucial to know if the mozzarella they put up in 8oz and 16oz retail packages is the same as what they put up in those 6 pound loaves.