Author Topic: Anyone use All Tump 50111?  (Read 7302 times)

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Offline PizzaEater

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Anyone use All Tump 50111?
« on: March 03, 2006, 05:54:13 PM »
I can get Genral Mills All Trump 50111 at my local Costco for about $6.50 per 25 lb. bag., does anyone here use the stuff?  Looking to use it for bagles and pizza dough. 

Thanks


Offline Fio

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Re: Anyone use All Tump 50111?
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2006, 11:25:24 PM »
If it's the same stuff I get at my Costco, go for it.  My dough has never been better.
Since joining this forum, I've begun using words like "autolyze" and have become anal about baker's percents.  My dough is forever changed.

Offline chiguy

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Re: Anyone use All Tump 50111?
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2006, 12:36:04 AM »
 Hi Pizza eater,
 The All Trumps 50111 is a high gluten flour and is very suitable for making a N.Y. style crust and at .26 a pound you can't go wrong. I have been using it for some time with great results.      Chiguy

Offline freshflour

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Re: Anyone use All Tump 50111?
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2006, 09:59:58 PM »
Yup.  I just bought the same bag recently.  It's good stuff.  It has an aroma to it that's typical of a lot of NY style restaurant pizzas.   Put the leftovers in the fridge overnight, give it a smell and you'll see what I mean.  It behaves and digests as you'd expect a high protein flour to - very stretchy dough, chewy crust.  It'll take 60% hydration easily.

Offline scott r

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Re: Anyone use All Tump 50111?
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2006, 10:03:01 PM »
I remember reading somewhere that all trumps was the biggest selling flour in New York City.

Offline myxsix

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Re: Anyone use All Tump 50111?
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2006, 02:46:08 AM »
Does anyone know what the protein content is?

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Anyone use All Tump 50111?
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2006, 08:44:04 AM »
myxsix,

If you go to this link, http://www.gmiflour.com/gmflour/pflour.asp, click on 50111 in the table (the 50111 is the bromated version of the All Trumps flour), and click on the Product Specifications (a Word document), you will see that the protein level of the 50111 is 14.2 +/- .3%.

Peter

EDIT (4/15/14): For the most recent link to the GM All Trumps flour, see http://professionalbakingsolutions.com/product/all-trumps-enriched-flour-50-lb/50111000

Offline TonyTrey

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Re: Anyone use All Tump 50111?
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2006, 06:40:54 PM »
I didn't see the flour you're talking about.  I bought a 50-lb bag of Costco's bread flour for $10 +change.  I threw out the bag.  But I think it was Con Agra.  It makes as good a dough as I ever made.  I also use it for making bread.  I probably use between 5-10 lbs. per week. 

Offline jrceo

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Re: Anyone use All Tump 50111?
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2006, 03:59:42 AM »
con agra was the brand i saw today at costco in santa rosa,califonia, the allpurpose flour was $6.00 for 50lbs and 9.95 for 50lbs of bread flour, I think regular all puprose flour will work fine for my pizza dough, im not sure if i should use bread flour, ?? umm what do you think pete eezza,
ill be using the dough for par baked and california pies maybe neopalitan pies as well. umm how do you feel about con agra all purpose flour?


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Anyone use All Tump 50111?
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2006, 07:20:54 AM »
jrceo,

If you are thinking about making California style doughs and an Americanized version of a Neapolitan-style dough that doesn't require using 00 flour, then I think the ConAgra all-purpose flour should work for you. The California Pizza Kitchen cookbook, which is directed to the California style pizza, calls for using all-purpose flour (or bread flour) in its basic dough recipe, and the Neapolitan-style recipe in Peter Reinhart's pizza cookbook American Pie calls for the use of all-purpose flour. So, for your purposes, you should be able to use the all-purpose flour for both styles. And, at $6 for a 50-pound bag, it's hard to see how you can go wrong.

Peter

Offline jrceo

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Re: Anyone use All Tump 50111?
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2006, 02:38:59 PM »
Hi guys , I just bought a 50lb bag of baking flour for $9.37 at costco and they DO NOT sell all trump flour, darn. birite sells 50lbs bags for 15.87 per bag , but to far of a drive just for trump flour.. I used rkos recipe same day dough and let me tell you IT TASTED AWSOME.. it a must try with baking flour, it had a nice crust crisp, the susace was perfect.. 6-1 . and the cheese was grande skim part milk , awsome. !..
 I did compare my baking doug results with trader joes allpurpose flour dough that they sell for a buck ,, Traderjoes dough, SUCKS.. i will never buy that again.. NEVER, and will NEVER use ALLPURPOSE FLOUR, if you guys are going to use flour make sure the lable says baking flour not all purpose flour.. ok.

 I will attach some pic and see if petezzera can tell me how much protien this baking flour by conagra  from costco has?
love this site..

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Anyone use All Tump 50111?
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2006, 04:07:51 PM »
jrceo,

If you had taken your photo about an inch or two higher you should have seen a sample serving size, such as 1/4 cup (30 g.). If that is what your bag says, with 3 g. of protein per serving, that would suggest a protein content of 10% (3/30 = 10). However, I don't believe that is the correct number. From what other members have said in the past, most of the flours sold at Costco's seem to use the same numbers. Also, there are rounding factors used on the labels for flours such that there is no way to calculate the actual protein content. You would have to go to the miller, or ask Costco's to get the information for you. Just about all all-purpose flours have more than 10% protein. I don't know what "baking flour" is to be able to tell you its protein content, but I would guess that it is closer to bread flour, especially if the all-purpose flour sells for $6 at Costco's for a 50-lb. bag.

I agree with you that Trader Joe's doughs leave something to be desired. But remember that not all Trader Joe's doughs are the same throughout their stores across the country. Trader Joe's doesn't make their own doughs. They are made under contract by local dough producers. So, some TJ doughs are likely to be better than others. I tried a Massachusetts version some time ago and thought it was mediocre. But, with the help of one of our most knowledgeable members, giotto, who lives in CA, I also reverse-engineered a California version of a TJ dough and thought the dough made based on that reverse engineering came out very well. If you would like to see the dough formulation and a few photos, see Reply 17 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,2036.msg19444.html#msg19444. In the second post below that reply, you can see the Massachusetts TJ dough mentioned above.

Peter

Offline gottabedapan

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Re: Anyone use All Tump 50111?
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2006, 05:36:41 PM »
Hi guys , I just bought a 50lb bag of baking flour for $9.37 at costco and they DO NOT sell all trump flour

What you mean is that your local Costco doesn't carry All Trumps. In some areas of the country, Costco does carry All Trumps, and stores thatwill add it if enough members request it.

Offline jrceo

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Re: Anyone use All Tump 50111?
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2006, 05:48:13 PM »
gottaban, thats right costco in rohnert park,  does not sell Genral Mills All Trump 50111 unless i try santa rosa costco.. um maybe ..
  I will check it out.. after i finish my 50lb bag of baked flour. i got 3lbs out of 4 cups of flour. not bad, giving that i paided .19 a cut. x 4 .80cents for lbs. wow. that means that for every 12inch i make it will cost me .20cents of flour. wow. not including additional ingredients.. its about .25cents total.. wow... i think i will stick with baked flour for now untill i decided to try trump 50111 .. gottaban, where is -city , state-plus zip.? the costco that you go to too by your flour?>umm i have to look into it.. thanks petezzer and gottaban for your help. jrceo..l

Offline jrceo

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Re: Anyone use All Tump 50111?
« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2006, 05:48:57 PM »
try this shot pete..

Offline jrceo

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Re: Anyone use All Tump 50111?
« Reply #15 on: July 15, 2006, 05:49:48 PM »
sorry same pic.. oops.  :o :o :o :o :o :-\ :-D :pizza: :chef: ;) ;D :) :)

Offline gottabedapan

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Re: Anyone use All Tump 50111?
« Reply #16 on: July 15, 2006, 05:59:39 PM »
Just about all all-purpose flours have more than 10% protein. I don't know what "baking flour" is to be able to tell you its protein content, but I would guess that it is closer to bread flour, especially if the all-purpose flour sells for $6 at Costco's for a 50-lb. bag.

Pete-zza,

I presume that "baking flour" is a shorthand for "bread baking wheat flour," which is the term Conagra uses in it patent application (US Patent #5433966) to refer to wheat flour intended to be used for bread. The patent itself describes a method of heat-treating wheat flour to improve its baking characteristics as an alternative to bromating:

Quote
Wheat flour is heat treated by suspending it in a heated carrier gas having an outlet temperature of 50.degree.-130.degree. C. for 5-8 seconds to increase dough strength of the flour and to dry the flour to a moisture content of less than 7 wt %. Bread dough made with the heat treated flour exhibits improved baking characteristics with reduced requirements for chemical oxidizing agents, and this flour is therefore useful when eliminating potassium bromate from formulations. The heat treated flour makes an improved bread mix with an increased shelf life.


Offline scott r

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Re: Anyone use All Tump 50111?
« Reply #17 on: July 16, 2006, 01:50:05 AM »
Just made some pies with all trumps tonight and the results were more than stellar.  I think this flour may actually taste better than KASL, or KA bread, but much more testing will definitely be in order to determine that for sure.  These pies had the unmistakable flavor of my absolute favorite NY street pizzerias.  I can definitely HIGHLY reccomend this flour.

Offline abc

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Re: Anyone use All Tump 50111?
« Reply #18 on: July 16, 2006, 11:43:18 AM »
Just made some pies with all trumps tonight and the results were more than stellar.  I think this flour may actually taste better than KASL, or KA bread, but much more testing will definitely be in order to determine that for sure.  These pies had the unmistakable flavor of my absolute favorite NY street pizzerias.  I can definitely HIGHLY reccomend this flour.


niiice...   i've got to try some... too bad it's summer and hot for pizza baking.  indeed kasl flour is a quality product, but if our taste buds have been programmed with NYC pizzas majorally using (i think) all-trumps, perhaps because they had/have better distribution in NY/Northeast and this led to the NYC pizza taste, well that's all that matters.


Offline abc

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Re: Anyone use All Tump 50111?
« Reply #19 on: July 23, 2006, 11:17:20 AM »
scottr  any more testing recently?  was looking for you to comment about the feel of the pizza, the crust.  less bagel like?

Offline scott r

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Re: Anyone use All Tump 50111?
« Reply #20 on: July 23, 2006, 11:34:58 PM »
ABC, this stuff was excellent and not bagle like at all.   I only had enough for two batches of dough, but they were both spot on for NY style pizza with the right flavor, consistency, and coloration. I didn't have time to do an A/B comparison with KASL but from those two batches I know they are definitely similar (high) quality flours.

The sad news is that I got it from one of my favorite pizzerias in town that is unfortunately changing ownership next week.  The owner (who kindly gave me some of his all trumps to try out in my oven) has had the pizzeria for 15 years and is being forced out of his space because of the MASSIVE rent increases in Boston.   His Landlord jacked the rent up to force them out and then offered to buy the busy pizzeria.  What a guy.

I was surprised to find out that this pizzeria makes very authentic NY style pies with sugar in the dough formulation.  I wonder if this is common practice for most NY street style pizzerias.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Anyone use All Tump 50111?
« Reply #21 on: July 23, 2006, 11:58:08 PM »
scott,

I am always looking at and analyzing NY style dough recipes and I have come to the conclusion that most NY style doughs include some sugar. The Lehmann dough formulation is one of the few that doesn't call for sugar unless the dough is to be held for beyond a couple of days. The reason for this is that the Lehmann dough is intended to be baked primarily in a deck oven and the sugar can lead to premature browning of the bottom crust if baked directly on the stone surface. Since the dough is also cold fermented for one or more days, by the time the dough is ready to be used most of the added sugar will have been eaten up by the yeast. As long as you stay below about 4% sugar (by weight of flour), you shouldn't be able to readily detect the sugar after a day or more of cold fermentation. In an "emergency" dough made in a couple hours or so, you will taste the sugar more in the finished crust because there wasn't enough time to metabolize it. For such a dough, I would cut the sugar back quite a bit. Especially for a NY style using a high-protein flour, such as KASL or All Trumps, there shouldn't be a great need under normal circumstances to use sugar to get crust color.

Peter

Offline abc

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Re: Anyone use All Tump 50111?
« Reply #22 on: July 24, 2006, 11:18:10 AM »
thats the said state of affairs, property value and $.

your reports about AT flour is stunning.  i'll really have to look into getting some now.  i don't know what to do with my 35lbs of KA flour... make bagels?  ha ha... summer though, too hot.

i might order from dutch valley again, but i wouldnt be in a rush as the total tally w/ shipping is about 30bucks... i might ask one of my local pizzerias if i can buy a bag off them.

Offline scott r

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Re: Anyone use All Tump 50111?
« Reply #23 on: July 24, 2006, 12:51:37 PM »
ABC, I can't say that I want you to run out to buy all trumps and throw away all your KASL.  If there is anything I have learned from my pizza adventures it is that two batches of excellent dough do not mean a thing.  I might have just been having really good luck for other reasons. ;D

I also have to add that I am definitely able to make excellent NY style pies with the KASL, and often times the crusts are not bagel like at all. I think I have mentioned it before but try one or all of the following- a wetter dough, less kneading, and longer proofing with the KASL.  That may get you closer to what you are looking for.   It could be that the bromate that is added to the all trumps I tried does make the dough a little more puffy and manageable (pete-zza is that what bromate does?).  Still, remember that bromate is thought to possibly be carcinogenic, and I would prefer to spend some time perfecting my mixing/proofing etc. to get a superior product out of the KASL than just using the bromated all trumps.

The next quest will definitely be to get some non bromated all trumps and compare. 


This weekend I made 550 degree pizzas in a normal home oven with a 50/50 blend of KASL and General Mills Full Strength flour.  The Full Strength is similar to All trumps, but with less protein.  My friends and family said that it was not only the best (normal oven temp) pizza I have ever made, but everyone but my wife said that it was the best pizza they have ever eaten. Now that makes you feel good!  The crust was crispy, but melted in your mouth in the middle. These pies actually made me second guess my belief that a high temp oven is a necessity for the ultimate crust.   It was an unusual recipe that I was trying out, and I plan to keep experimenting with that one and eventually reporting the recipe to the forum. This dough was very wet, and also was taken to the extremes of fermentation.  I think that if I had let the dough go another hour it would have been impossible to shake off of the peel.  It was fermented for 8 hours at room temp, then in the fridge for 24 hours.

Luckily right before we were about to finish off the last pie I thought to snap a few photos.  I will include a pic of the crumb from both sides of the slices.




Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Anyone use All Tump 50111?
« Reply #24 on: July 24, 2006, 01:23:47 PM »
scott,

As you will note from the definition of "potassium bromate" in the Pizza Glossary at http://www.pizzamaking.com/pizza_glossary.html#P, the bromate does have the effect of keeping the dough in a risen state. I have seen instances where bakers switched from a bromated flour to a non-bromated flour and complained about the dough not staying risen as long as with the bromated flour. One instance in particular that I recall was a complaint from a baker who made a Sicilian dough, which requires a good rise. I will be interested in the results you get should you get and try the non-bromated All Trumps.

I would estimate that your dough was the equivalent of about 3 days--possibly more--of normal cold fermentation if you used normal amounts of yeast. But the results look terrific. I'd be curious to know which of your pizzas Kim has felt was your very best.

Peter