Author Topic: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza  (Read 523597 times)

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Online Pete-zza

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1120 on: March 26, 2015, 09:47:48 PM »
Thanks, Peter. Here's my recipe:

100% KA Bread Flour (906g)
2.5% Hodgson Mills VWG (22.65g)
63% Water (571g)
.25% IDY (2.27g)
1.75% salt (15.87g)
1% oil (9.07g)

The percentage of VWG was calculated in a different thread (I think)...although at this point I'm not 100% sure.

There better be a next time! We didn't spend thousands of dollars to build a WFO for me to buy pre-made pizza dough.  :o

Thanks so much.
pfhlad0,

There are a couple of ways to handle this: The way that I would do it, and the way that you did it. I will start with the way I would do it.

Let us assume that the original recipe calls for 906g of KABF and you want to use a blend of the KABF and the Hodgson Mill VWG so that the protein content of the blend (906g) is 14%. which is roughly the protein content of the blend you used. Using the Mixed Mass Conversion Calculator at http://foodsim.unclesalmon.com/ with the two ingredients selected in the two pull-down menus (A and B) and using 906 in the Mass box and 14 in the % box, the 906g becomes 884.15g KABF and 21.85g Hodgson Mill VWG. The sum of these two numbers is 906g. Now, using the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded-calculator.html with a Dough Weight of 1503.96g, we end up with the following dough formulation:

KABF/VWG Flour Blend* (100%):
Water (63%):
IDY (0.25%):
Salt (1.75%):
Olive Oil (1%):
Total (166%):
906 g  |  31.96 oz | 2 lbs
570.78 g  |  20.13 oz | 1.26 lbs
2.27 g | 0.08 oz | 0 lbs | 0.75 tsp | 0.25 tbsp
15.86 g | 0.56 oz | 0.03 lbs | 2.84 tsp | 0.95 tbsp
9.06 g | 0.32 oz | 0.02 lbs | 2.01 tsp | 0.67 tbsp
1503.96 g | 53.05 oz | 3.32 lbs | TF = N/A
*The KABF/VWG Flour Blend comprises 884.15g of KABF and 21.85g of Hodgson Mill VWG, for a total of 906g
Note: No bowl residue compensation

Using your method, where you just added VWG (22.65g) to the original amount of KABF (906g), it becomes necessary to increase the rest of the ingredients in relation to the total of the two ingredients, that is, 928.65g. Using the expanded dough calculating tool again, and doing a bunch of calculations and tweaking the baker's percents, we get the following dough formulation:
KABF (100%):
Water (64.5741%):
IDY (0.2557%):
Salt (1.794%):
Olive Oil (1.026%):
Hodgson Mill Vital Wheat Gluten (2.5%):
Total (170.1498%):
906 g  |  31.96 oz | 2 lbs
585.04 g  |  20.64 oz | 1.29 lbs
2.32 g | 0.08 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.77 tsp | 0.26 tbsp
16.25 g | 0.57 oz | 0.04 lbs | 2.91 tsp | 0.97 tbsp
9.3 g | 0.33 oz | 0.02 lbs | 2.07 tsp | 0.69 tbsp
22.65 g | 0.8 oz | 0.05 lbs | 7.56 tsp | 2.52 tbsp
1541.56 g | 54.38 oz | 3.4 lbs | TF = N/A
Note: No bowl residue compensation; the volume measurements for the VWG were adjusted to relate to the Hodgson Mill brand of VWG

As you can see, the math gets quite tricky, and it took me a long time to tweak all of the percents as you can see from all of the decimal places I had to use. You will also note that the amount of dough the way you did it is more than the way I did it. That means that when you make the dough, you should scale it to the dough ball weight you want to use. You will also see that my suggestion to increase the hydration by about 1.5-2% was pretty close. Note also the increases in the amounts of IDY, salt and oil.

I think you can now see why using the method I used and using the Mixed Mass Conversion Calculator is a far easier and more accurate way of doing things. The same methodology can, and ideally should, be used with other flour blends.

Peter

Offline pfhlad0

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1121 on: March 27, 2015, 07:25:37 AM »
Oh my goodness, thank you so much. That was a lot of work and I really appreciate the time you spent on it.

Obviously, there's nothing I can do about the batch that's in the fridge now, but hopefully it's not too far off and it will be fine. I will definitely use your method the next time I try this.

Thanks again so much. You are an invaluable resource and a very nice guy.  :)

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1122 on: March 27, 2015, 08:38:03 AM »
Oh my goodness, thank you so much. That was a lot of work and I really appreciate the time you spent on it.

Obviously, there's nothing I can do about the batch that's in the fridge now, but hopefully it's not too far off and it will be fine. I will definitely use your method the next time I try this.

Thanks again so much. You are an invaluable resource and a very nice guy.  :)
pfhlad0,

I'm glad to help.

You can see how Tom Lehmann addresses the matter of adding VWG to a given flour, at his PMQ Think Tank post at http://thinktank.pmq.com/threads/dough-protein.4343/#post-23630. Tom's advice is usually for professionals, and often his advice on adding VWG to a flour is for professionals who are not in the U.S. and whose flours are not as high in protein as our flours in the U.S. Tom usually does not address what to do with the rest of the ingredients in the dough recipe when vital wheat gluten is added to an existing flour although he discusses how to increase the hydration of the recipe. Presumably, the answer is that the changes in the amounts of the other ingredients such as salt, oil, yeast, etc., are minor. If you compare the two formulations I gave you, you will see that the differences in the ingredients other than the water are slight, almost not measurable. But, if I can get more precision, I am all for that. And using the Mixed Mass Conversion Calculator and the methodology I discussed gives me that option. In that respect, we have an advantage over professionals who do not use tools like the Mixed Mass Conversion Calculator. It was a member of the forum (by the name of November), a nonprofessional, who designed that tool.

Peter

Offline pfhlad0

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1123 on: March 27, 2015, 03:48:42 PM »
Well, I am very grateful for everyone on this board. Especially those with the extensive knowledge...like you.

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Tom Lehmann's NY Style Pizza
« Reply #1124 on: Yesterday at 10:14:45 AM »
Also, how do tell if dough is over or under mixed?
pfhlad0,

I see that I forgot to answer your question as posed above.

In my experience, there is no single or best or right answer to your question. There are a lot of factors involved, including the type of flour being used, the type of dough and pizza being made, and the type of equipment used to mix and knead the dough. Often people will marvel at how well a professional's dough will handle and ask themselves why their dough doesn't handles as nicely as the doughs made by professionals. A good part of the answer is that professionals use commercial mixers. In a home setting, it is hard to replicate a dough made using commercial equipment. Our members might use a standard home mixer, but they might also use a food processor or a bread maker. And some will knead the dough by hand, and they might use one or more series of stretch and folds, which works especially well with high hydration doughs, with rest periods in between the stretch and folds. And some might use autolyse or similar rest periods. Stretch and folds and autolyse come out of the bread making art, not out of pizza making.

As a general rule of thumb, many of our members will knead the dough for a period of time related to the expected period of fermentation. For example, if the dough is to ferment for a few days in the refrigerator, they might underknead the dough and let biochemical gluten development do most of the heavy lifting. Conversely, if the fermentation period is to be short, they might knead the dough more at the outset. The type of flour used might also dictate how much mixing and kneading of the dough one should do.

As you might expect, Tom Lehmann has often spoken on this subject. For example, here is a quote from one of his posts:

You want to mix the dough just enough so that when you take an egg size piece of dough, and form it into a ball, then holding it in two hands, with the thumbs together (pointing away from you), and on top of the dough piece, gently pull the thumbs apart. The dough skin should not tear. If it tears, you should mix the dough a little longer. The dough will have a decidedly satiny appearance. Prior to the satiny appearance the dough will have more of a curdled appearance. Do not stretch the dough out between the fingers to form a gluten film. This test for development is for bread and roll doughs, not pizza. Pizza dough is not fully developed at the mixer, instead, it receives most of its development through biochemical gluten development (fermentation). After the dough has been in the cooler for about 24 hours, you should be able to stretch the dough in your fingers and form a very thin, translucent gluten film.

The above quote is in respect of a commercial application although it still applies to a home environment. The video below shows how Tom tests the dough in a commercial setting.

You might also find this post of interest: Reply 37 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=27536.msg279957#msg279957.

With experience, most members will learn when a dough is ready by touch and feel. But it is important to keep in mind that that touch and feel can be different for different types of pizza dough.



Peter