Author Topic: Choosing a Starter.  (Read 1902 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Steve

  • Steve Zinski
  • Administrator
  • *
  • Posts: 1944
  • Age: 51
  • Location: Richmond, VA
    • pizzamaking.com
Re: Choosing a Starter.
« Reply #40 on: November 19, 2013, 09:29:22 PM »
On what other sites  have you followed his work?

I don't doubt he has some knowledge. I'll withhold judgement whether or not PM is fortunate to have him as a member.

Why the hostility? Seriously.
Pizzamaking.com is a member-supported public resource. Click HERE to become a Supporting Member.


Offline arspistorica

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 111
  • Location: Australia
  • Keep that which is simple abundant.
Re: Choosing a Starter.
« Reply #41 on: November 19, 2013, 10:17:37 PM »
I take the research seriously as well, notwithstanding, you canít simply dismiss as romanticism, multiple consistent observations made by a significant number of unrelated individuals.
 

Iím not here to defend the culture peddlers. I have no dog in that fight. Iím here to challenge the science that, as you have presented it, I do not agree is correct based on my observations and the observations of others I trust. Science in a lab doesnít always represent what happens in nature. As a skeptic, all I need to do is poke holes in your theory at which point, you can tell me where Iíve introduced material error or reformulate your hypothesis.

may be better adapted - ever hear of an invasive species?

And my direct observations refute your claims.

No Ė go back and reread what I wrote yet again. I was very deliberate NOT to assume it is Ischia. I only noted that I had a stable culture. (BTW Ė do you think ďevolvedĒ is the right word to use here?)

Once again, you completely missed the question which was simply how do you know Ischia and others are not stable like the culture you just described? You donít.

I don't know how many different aromatic profiles they can create, but I'm quite certain I've smelled two of them, and if they are being produced by the same flora under substantially the same conditions, I'd live for someone to explain to me how that works.

I agree the placebo effect is real, but I also know that if I chew two sugar pills, one of them is not going to taste like an aspirin. I didn't do this experiment looking to come up with a result to disprove your claims. This happened well before I ever heard of you, and in fact, I even described it to another member of this forum at the time.

I appreciate your sophist nature, as I think it's healthy to have scepticism, but, at this point in the conversation, we are circling back around to questions already raised, along with answers already provided.  Whether or not you accept those answers is up to you, but I, for one, do not feel like unnecessarily pulverising an already-dead horse any further. (For the record, I know you do not accept the answers provided or even think the questions have been answered appropriately; I think they have been.)
"Senza il mio territorio sarei solo un panificatore."
                                  -Franco Pepe

Offline arspistorica

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 111
  • Location: Australia
  • Keep that which is simple abundant.
Re: Choosing a Starter.
« Reply #42 on: November 19, 2013, 11:52:04 PM »
Ian,

Believe me, my question was not meant to be offensive. And I do think that there is value in this type of research and discussion.

In my line of work I've been fascinated by how prominent a role gut bacteria plays in both the  maintenance of health as well as the treatment of disease.

If you told physicians 10 years ago that you could minimize the severity and duration of ventilator-related pneumonia by treating patients with "probiotics" administered into the GI tract (not the respiratory tract) you would have been soundly mocked.

More recently it has been shown that the very same bacteria that causes zits (Propionibacteria acnes) also lodges itself in the intervertebral discs of some patients with chronic back pain. Of even greater interest is that these patients can be "cured" of their back pain with a 100 day course of a cheap antibiotic.

Anectdotally, I have been taking a daily probiotic supplement for the past two years (and have been promoting family members and patients to do the same). Whether or not it is related, I have had none (ZERO, ZILCH, NADA) in terms of my biannual 2-3 week phlegm-riddled bout of bronchitis since I started that regimen....

So just these three examples to show you why I think this type of discussion is great. Keep it up!

John K

Sorry, I did not think you were doubtful; I was merely trying to say the companies and people who sell these cultures are irrelevant to the overall argument in my mind.

I follow this microbiotic world broadly as well, and the implications are simply stunning in their implications, breadth and depth.  The idea moves beyond just our health to the microbiotic world's impact on and in plant, soil, and even entire ecosystem health; to how these seemingly simple creatures modulate and regulate their hosts; to how our understanding of natural selection has changed in the past ten years; etc.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2013, 12:09:30 AM by arspistorica »
"Senza il mio territorio sarei solo un panificatore."
                                  -Franco Pepe