Author Topic: The next generation of The Blackstone Oven  (Read 2829 times)

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Offline Roman

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The next generation of The Blackstone Oven
« on: October 30, 2013, 05:26:57 PM »
This isn't a new excercise as you can frequent other forums from digital cameras to audio and wishful thinking and speculation runs rampant. What would be the reasonable improvements, alterations and "pie in the sky" design elements that would make you buy the next one.


Online tinroofrusted

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Re: The next generation of The Blackstone Oven
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2013, 05:52:57 PM »
Make it big enough to fit a 17" pie.

Offline Qarl

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Re: The next generation of The Blackstone Oven
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2013, 09:08:48 PM »
Better build quality

Better packaging

Quiet more durable motor

Maybe stainless heat deflector so it won't rust and peel

The could simply dimple the platter (raised bumps) to create an air gap beneath the stone and avoid the washer mod

Place to mount tank underneath



Offline bbqchuck

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Re: The next generation of The Blackstone Oven
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2013, 12:54:41 AM »
Build quality.
Build quality.
Build quality.

The thing works extremely well.  Making the thing more accurately and with better materials would do it for me.  Isn't that a 2Stone?

The 2Stone could be manufactured such that a $700-1000 retail price could still be profitable if a good manufacturing engineer had a hand at a redesign.  After all, isn't that what this thread is all about?  The 2Stone costs too much and the Blackstone is made poorly?

But if you think somehow a high quality version of the Blackstone is going to hit the market and be $400, I think you'll be disappointed.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2013, 01:23:45 AM by bbqchuck »

Offline Tampa

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Re: The next generation of The Blackstone Oven
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2013, 08:51:54 AM »
Great thread Roman.  I'm subscribed.

I love many of the ideas already added.  Others that come to mind include
  • Able to bake great neo pies out of the box
  • More fuel efficient
  • Schmutz collector under the stone (thx Bobino)
  • More precise flame control with only one dial
  • Still value priced
  • Upscale version for built-in and/or mobile applications with zazz
I could go on all day...  The opportunity is to fix shortcomings, make selective improvements, and create an insanely great oven.
Dave

Online TXCraig1

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Re: The next generation of The Blackstone Oven
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2013, 10:36:05 AM »
To Chuck's point, I'm wondering how many people would have shelled out the cash it would have cost to get a BS if it was originally designed it with these features? My guess is that there would be very few Blackstone ovens in use around here if the price was much over $399 let alone $600-$700.

IMO, the reason the Blackstone has been so successful here with this crowd is precisely because it DOES NOT have any of these features. As I see it, the BS has two key features*: 1) it's inexpensive, and 2) with a few simple and inexpensive mods, it can bake pies at a level approaching that of a WFO - even with no mods, it can bake a better pie than some more expensive ovens.

*again - for this crowd. I doubt this is what the folks who designed it had in mind. Rather, I suspect they were trying to make something that was both inexpensive and made a decent pie right out of the box. The comments at Amazon seem to support this.
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Offline MightyPizzaOven

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Re: The next generation of The Blackstone Oven
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2013, 11:31:55 AM »
Certification. Many product are not manufactured under strict guidelines and may not hold up after regular, rigorous use. You may perceive the inferior non-certified oven as safe, but there are no assurances without the proper certification. Certification means the manufacturer cares enough to take the time and money  to secure those certifications and to build an oven with the quality required to meet those higher standards – which is why most manufacturers don’t do it. It’s the familiar “pay now or pay later” scenario. Failure to protect both the products and their customers will have a future cost due to potential liabilities.

Reputable certifying agencies such as UL, Intertek Testing, NSF, and CSA.
Bert,

Offline Roman

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Re: The next generation of The Blackstone Oven
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2013, 12:24:38 PM »
Craig, let's look at one of the most basic outdoor cooking units ever made, The Weber Kettle. There can't be a more basic unit for the price point that is the stripped down version of a cooking carburator. Fuel and variable mixture of air to produce infinite control in a cooking chamber. What more coould have Weber done to improve on this cost effective solution? May they introduce the basic to the One Touch, then Performer, to the Weber Smoky Mountain. let alone the variations on the gas and propane. I can't help to think they will be putting their own spin on the Pizza Oven next year.

I believe Blackstone is paying attention to the feedback through this forum. It is difficult to rudder a large ship toward a radical direction once on course.  Box packing and delivery methods are no doubt a victim to contractual agreements that will be adjusted. Ours is due diligence to be the Beta testers.

Blackstone, are you listening?

Online TXCraig1

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Re: The next generation of The Blackstone Oven
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2013, 12:58:24 PM »
Craig, let's look at one of the most basic outdoor cooking units ever made, The Weber Kettle.

I think the difference is market size. The market size for outdoor pizza ovens probably isn't a rounding error in the market size for outdoor grills or even the charcoal grills subset. I doubt BS has anything invested in manufacturing - just inventory, so maybe it's not a big deal for them to offer an enhanced version. However, I still come back to my original question. Who is going to buy it?

I love pigs. They convert vegetables into bacon.

Offline pizzaboyfan

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Re: The next generation of The Blackstone Oven
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2013, 01:16:03 PM »
How many pizza stones do you figure are sold in a year..how many in the last 10 years  ?

If 1/2 of 1 % of those pizza craving folks get wind of the Blackstone, I think they have a wide open market.

It's not an appliance purchase,, it's a hobby purchase and if they come out with an upgraded, deluxe "S" or whatever, I'll bet it outsells the basic one.
Folks love to spend money on their hobbies, and this is an edible adventure.

My 1 cent.

Perry


Online TXCraig1

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Re: The next generation of The Blackstone Oven
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2013, 01:22:22 PM »
Just a guess, but I'd bet 0.5% of the pizza stone market would be gross exaggeration of the realistic BS market.
I love pigs. They convert vegetables into bacon.

Offline Serpentelli

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Re: The next generation of The Blackstone Oven
« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2013, 02:07:19 PM »
Just a guess, but I'd bet 0.5% of the pizza stone market would be gross exaggeration of the realistic BS market.

I just found this graph of past and future sales of the BS.

I'm not sure its supposed to be public knowledge. Trend seems to start with first post on BS thread. Spike at Christmas, then I'm not sure what to make of things..... ???

Spike in April when tax refund checks come back, also, I'm assuming.

John K
« Last Edit: October 31, 2013, 02:17:11 PM by Serpentelli »

Offline mkevenson

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Re: The next generation of The Blackstone Oven
« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2013, 02:10:38 PM »
based on that graph, nov-may were probably all purchased by folks here. Those #s must be in multiples of 100s or 1000s  ???
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Offline Serpentelli

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Re: The next generation of The Blackstone Oven
« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2013, 02:15:31 PM »
No, Its in ones. See, it says so on the graph. :-D Which I invented. And then revised.

My point is --- I agree with the people who have said that the size of the group of purchasers for devices like this is small. And I don't think that the pie, so to speak, will expand in size.

John K
« Last Edit: October 31, 2013, 02:37:03 PM by Serpentelli »

Offline Tampa

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Re: The next generation of The Blackstone Oven
« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2013, 03:37:20 PM »
No, Its in ones. See, it says so on the graph. :-D Which I invented. And then revised.

My point is --- I agree with the people who have said that the size of the group of purchasers for devices like this is small. And I don't think that the pie, so to speak, will expand in size.

John K
Interesting graph, I'm glad it is fictitious.

I like the prospects for this oven going forward.  I've seen what happens at parties when guests get a bite of the results.  And what does it cost to make a pie, $3 for a Neo?  On the heels of a recession with "community" growing in importance, forum fans, tailgaters, portable oven businesses, I think there is good potential.

In short, everybody loves pizza.  A couple of weeks ago I tuned a friend's new oven, picked up a half-dozen dough-balls at Whole Foods and heard "wow" all night long.  One guy insisted on learning how to make his own pie, start to finish.  The result may not have been  a forum favorite, but it was "his pie" and he loved it.  Others took interest in running the oven, dough handling, and many wanted to pick ingredients.

IMO, this a "category creation" type product, especially at this price point.  Those types of products are difficult to forecast, tend to grow organically at first, then may/may not take off.  Key to growth is making it simple to create a great pie.
Dave

Offline Papageorgio

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Re: The next generation of The Blackstone Oven
« Reply #15 on: November 02, 2013, 12:46:36 AM »
The only changes would be better packaging so there is no damage during shipping and that the parts that come out of the box are built square and fit properly.
I must say I'm VERY satisfied with the unit and the price point is excellent. It's a great stove and has exceeded my expectations.

As a hobbyist pizza maker I enjoy the tweaks and adjustments to get it just how I want it. Heck,that's part of the fun for me! At this point there is nothing I could do to make this stove any better and I applaud Blackstone for bringing it to market.

The use of more expensive parts and increased pricing may have prevented me(and others) from purchasing the stove and really would have done nothing to increase my enjoyment level of the product. My hats off to Blackstone.


Offline bbqchuck

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Re: The next generation of The Blackstone Oven
« Reply #16 on: November 03, 2013, 01:52:35 AM »
This is not a "one in every home" kind of product, IMO.  Its a niche product.  Think about the extreme levels we go to for a pizza.  The BS is a money grab type of product.   

Offline MightyPizzaOven

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Re: The next generation of The Blackstone Oven
« Reply #17 on: November 03, 2013, 08:31:17 AM »
No one commented on the certification requirement. You don't consider certification when you buy?
Bert,

Offline shuboyje

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Re: The next generation of The Blackstone Oven
« Reply #18 on: November 03, 2013, 10:27:16 AM »
Personally I could care less about certification unless I am in a situation where I am required to have it, at which point I would be complaining about that, lol. 

I also think it's worth noting the Blackstone is not designed for Neapolitan pizza, so even if it carried certification that would not address it's use for Neapolitan pizza and would more then likely not address many of the issues users here have had with it running at those temperatures.
-Jeff

Offline Tampa

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Re: The next generation of The Blackstone Oven
« Reply #19 on: November 03, 2013, 10:52:54 AM »
No one commented on the certification requirement. You don't consider certification when you buy?
You know these certs are mostly a sham right?  My brother has a company that gets UL compliance on electronic products.  He tells me that the guys are idiots.  UL routinely holds him hostage until he educates them about what needs to be tested, shows them how to test, and then they make him pay handsomely for a cert.  The guys cert-ing ovens aren't any better (per a grill company). 

To be fair, the BS threads show that there are quality improvements needed and several owners have been assured that proper steps are being taken.  If there were an free market cert company adding real value, that would be a good thing.
Dave


 

pizzapan