Author Topic: My newest pizza - newbie needs advice  (Read 1066 times)

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Offline GarlicLover

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My newest pizza - newbie needs advice
« on: November 02, 2013, 08:27:04 PM »
Needless to say I'm a newbie... now that being said, this is the pizza I made today:

650 g. Flour (German "Type 450" - Wheat flour)
400 g. Water (lukewarm)
3.5 g. IDY
1 teaspoon sugar
2 teaspoons salt
No oil


Procedure: First I used a mixer for a few minutes, then kneaded by hand for about 10 minutes. Divided the dough into three balls and stored them in plastic containers in the fridge. After about 15 hours of cold fermentation I made the pizzas. To my surprise, the dough was extremely easy to work with. It was very extensible and had just the right amount of elasticity, which was the complete opposite of my old dough recipe... where I needed to work very very hard in order to stretch/form the dough. In any case, I baked the pizzas on a pizza screen for about 13 minutes under 482F.

My thoughts: I was impressed. The best pizza I have made, much better than my old pizzas. The taste was a cross between Pizza Hut and NY-style, don't know how else to describe it. The crust was chewy, although a bit too stiff for my taste. There wasn't enough "air" in the crust... it just wasn't "fluffy" enough. Aside from that, the pizza tasted very good.

My questions:

- Would I have gotten a completely different result if I had used a digital scale instead of a simple measurement cup?
- Would the crust be "fluffier" if I use this exact same dough on a pizza stone under 482F?
- The dough seemed, despite 61% hydration, much dryer than I expected. Could this be because of the type of flour, or because I didn't use a digital scale?


So this was my first attempt to make something that closely resembled NY-style pizza. It didn't turn out that way (mainly because of the crust), but it was nonetheless a very good-tasting pizza. Soon I'm going to buy a digital scale & pizza stone, so I'm hoping to make even better pies. If someone could answer my questions and give me advice on how to improve, I would appreciate it very much. 8)

Thank you.
GarlicLover


Offline TXCraig1

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Re: My newest pizza - newbie needs advice
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2013, 08:41:42 PM »
Quote
Would I have gotten a completely different result if I had used a digital scale instead of a simple measurement cup?

Maybe, maybe not, but that isn't the question you should be asking. The question that matters is "will I get the same result next time?" A scale helps you get repeatable results.
Pizza is not bread.

Offline GarlicLover

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Re: My newest pizza - newbie needs advice
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2013, 08:44:10 PM »
Maybe, maybe not, but that isn't the question you should be asking. The question that matters is "will I get the same result next time?" A scale helps you get repeatable results.

You're right. ;D

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: My newest pizza - newbie needs advice
« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2013, 08:45:37 PM »
Isn't Type 450 cake/pastry flour?
Pizza is not bread.

Offline Jackitup

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Re: My newest pizza - newbie needs advice
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2013, 08:48:40 PM »
Echoing Craig's comments, scale AND a stone would make it even better I think. Mind you what you did looks great, but those 2 things are what you need if you are going forward. BTW how did you get your gram measurements without a scale or was this a random measurement for cups to grams you got online....not the same thing if so.

jon
Save A Cow, Eat A Vegan....Totally Organic And Hormone Free!!

Offline GarlicLover

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Re: My newest pizza - newbie needs advice
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2013, 09:04:36 PM »
Isn't Type 450 cake/pastry flour?

It says Weizenmehl (Wheat flour). The "Type 405" seems to be a "standard" flour so-to-speak, described as "preferred household flour, good baking properties". There is also Type 550, Type 812, Type 1050, etc., but I didn't try those yet.

Echoing Craig's comments, scale AND a stone would make it even better I think. Mind you what you did looks great, but those 2 things are what you need if you are going forward.

I'm buying a scale and a stone soon. BTW, do you think a stone at 482F would be able to make something that resembles NY-style?

Quote
BTW how did you get your gram measurements without a scale or was this a random measurement for cups to grams you got online....not the same thing if so.

Right now I just use a simple measurement cup. LoL! ;D It has measurements for water, flour, and sugar. Not sure if that's your question.

As I said in my original post, the dough seemed, despite 61% hydration, much dryer than I expected. I was surprised that it wasn't very sticky. In fact, the stickiness was pretty low! Could this be because of the type of flour, or because I didn't use a digital scale... or perhaps other factors?

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: My newest pizza - newbie needs advice
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2013, 10:27:05 PM »
650 g. Flour (German "Type 450" - Wheat flour)
400 g. Water (lukewarm)
3.5 g. IDY
1 teaspoon sugar
2 teaspoons salt

Would I have gotten a completely different result if I had used a digital scale instead of a simple measurement cup?

Wait a minute. How do you know the weights of your measurements if you measured them with a measuring cup?

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: My newest pizza - newbie needs advice
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2013, 10:32:48 PM »
It says Weizenmehl (Wheat flour). The "Type 405" seems to be a "standard" flour so-to-speak, described as "preferred household flour, good baking properties". There is also Type 550, Type 812, Type 1050, etc., but I didn't try those yet.

I think 400's are cake/pastry-type flours, 500's are more like all purpose, 600's are more like bread flours, and 800-1000+ are whole wheat blends with the higher numbers indicating more bran, germ, etc.
Pizza is not bread.

Offline GarlicLover

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Re: My newest pizza - newbie needs advice
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2013, 10:34:10 PM »
Wait a minute. How do you know the weights of your measurements if you measured them with a measuring cup?


Not sure exactly what you mean. I used one of these: http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/claudiodivizia/claudiodivizia0907/claudiodivizia090700064/5151595-measuring-cup-with-metric-scales-for-water-sugar-and-flour.jpg

Hope I didn't embarass myself. :-X

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: My newest pizza - newbie needs advice
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2013, 10:49:19 PM »
Right now I just use a simple measurement cup. LoL! ;D It has measurements for water, flour, and sugar. Not sure if that's your question.

OK, that answers the question in my previous post (and Jackitup's question, which I didn't read before asking).

The thing is, there is no measuring cup on this planet that can tell you how many grams of flour it holds. 650 grams of flour doesn't occupy the same amount of space every time you measure it. The disparity can be very large from one volumetric measurement to the next, even if it feels like you're doing it the same way every time.

(I read your response after I typed everything up to this point, so I'm probably about to repeat myself as I respond to your post.)

I'm guessing the first gram measurement on that cup is for water and the second gram measurement is for flour. Or something like that.

Well, basically it's lying to you. The measuring cup does not know how much space 600 grams of flour occupies because 600 grams of flour never occupies the same amount of space twice. Only a scale can tell you how many grams you've measured. (The weight of water may be measured somewhat accurately when measuring by volume, but it's still imprecise.)

How confusing was that?


Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: My newest pizza - newbie needs advice
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2013, 10:52:39 PM »
Also, your pizza looks good. I'm glad you feel like you're making progress.

Offline GarlicLover

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Re: My newest pizza - newbie needs advice
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2013, 10:56:04 PM »
OK, that answers the question in my previous post (and Jackitup's question, which I didn't read before asking).

The thing is, there is no measuring cup on this planet that can tell you how many grams of flour it holds. 650 grams of flour doesn't occupy the same amount of space every time you measure it. The disparity can be very large from one volumetric measurement to the next, even if it feels like you're doing it the same way every time.

(I read your response after I typed everything up to this point, so I'm probably about to repeat myself as I respond to your post.)

I'm guessing the first gram measurement on that cup is for water and the second gram measurement is for flour. Or something like that.

Well, basically it's lying to you. The measuring cup does not know how much space 600 grams of flour occupies because 600 grams of flour never occupies the same amount of space twice. Only a scale can tell you how many grams you've measured. (The weight of water may be measured somewhat accurately when measuring by volume, but it's still imprecise.)

How confusing was that?

No it's not confusing at all, and I thank you for your lengthy response/explanation! As I expected, the thing is definitely unreliable to be used for proper pizza making. This is probably the reason why the dough seemed MUCH dryer than it should have been at 61% hydration. LoL

Yup... I need to get a digital scale ASAP. Probably gonna order one tomorrow.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2013, 11:00:30 PM by GarlicLover »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: My newest pizza - newbie needs advice
« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2013, 02:15:30 PM »
GarlicLover,

The question that is not answered by the measuring cup you showed is how the flour gets into the measuring cup. Is the flour lifted from the flour container with a spoon or scoop of some sort, or is the flour scooped out of the flour container, or is the measuring cup shaken while flour is added, or is the measuring cup banged on a work surface to cause the flour to settle more while more flour is added? Is the flour sifted? Each of these methods will produce a different weight if the flour is put on a scale and weighed.

Peter

Offline GarlicLover

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Re: My newest pizza - newbie needs advice
« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2013, 11:22:04 PM »
Is the flour lifted from the flour container with a spoon or scoop of some sort, or is the flour scooped out of the flour container,

I just take the bag of flour and pour it into the measuring cup.

Quote
or is the measuring cup shaken while flour is added, or is the measuring cup banged on a work surface to cause the flour to settle more while more flour is added?

Both.

Quote
Is the flour sifted?

Not sure what you mean. Do I sift it, or do I buy it already sifted? I never sift flour. I just use it the way it is. Is this a mistake? ???

Quote
Each of these methods will produce a different weight if the flour is put on a scale and weighed.

Well, a couple of hours ago I ordered a digital scale. :D

Offline Jackitup

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Re: My newest pizza - newbie needs advice
« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2013, 02:57:46 AM »
when you get your scale try a couple experiments and weigh your dough using a few different ways of volume measuring like Peter said, sifting, scooping, pouring ect and see the difference of weights, a little bit can change the outcome on your dough a lot. Also try different flours and how much they vary. You'll love your scale!

jon
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: My newest pizza - newbie needs advice
« Reply #15 on: November 05, 2013, 08:33:36 AM »
Not sure what you mean. Do I sift it, or do I buy it already sifted? I never sift flour. I just use it the way it is. Is this a mistake? ???
GarlicLover,

Flour is presifted at the miller's facility. However, flour can become compacted during storage. Some recipes also call for sifting of flour. And some people will sift flour to improve its hydration, especially when using home mixers. But when you use weights, you don't have to worry about any of the above matters.

Peter

Offline GarlicLover

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Re: My newest pizza - newbie needs advice
« Reply #16 on: November 07, 2013, 09:41:47 PM »
I just noticed that I made a mistake in this post. I wrote flour type "450", but it's actually "405", LoL.

In any case, now I'm using type "550", which is bread flour.


 

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