Author Topic: Conagra Harvest Bread Flour  (Read 1491 times)

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Offline PizzaEater101

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Conagra Harvest Bread Flour
« on: November 06, 2013, 11:39:27 PM »
I do my research and I do searches here before I ask questions but did not see the answer to this here yet or on the net. So here it goes.

Have not posted in some time. I could have put this in the Ingredients and Resources section but honestly I prefer NY to any other pizza and I tend to think I would get even faster and more accurate responeses here because I am not so sure everyone who reads the NY Forum reads the other one.

I was at Costco Business and they don't carrry Power Flour anymore  >:(.  I saw the Kyrol and I see here at the pizza forums that Kyrol gets good marks. But what got my attention more was the Conagra Harvest Bread Flour becasue it said bleached and I am positive that on the ingredients it said Potassium Bromate. I am pretty sure this is either illegal in California or if it is not, it is hard to get. I saw another discussion here where someone purchased this flour from Costco Business but re-packaged it at home and threw away the original packaging but from his memory he thought it did say Potassium Bromate also. He never followed up to confirm this by going back to Costco. 

I know that the post about this product are kind of old so I was wondering if any new information came up. Do any of you know if it's possible for in California that flour with PB can be sold? If so, does anyone know if Conagra Harvest Bread Flour has a version that has PB in it? My eyes don't lie, I saw it with my own eyes. 

Since Power Flour is no longer sold I was thinking of going with Kyrol because it gets such high marks here but when I saw that this Harvest Bread Flour ahs PB in it I thoght here is my chance to try Bromated flour even if it does not get as high marks here as Kyrol. I read here at the forum that Kyrol is made bromated or unbromated. I would guess the one in CA is unbromated and if the Harvest Bread Flour is bromated it might be a fluke that a California retailer has it and I should get it when I can. 

I will go with Scott's thoughts that PB in such small quantities is not dangerous anyway when you bake it turns into Bromite, correct and that is not dangerous.

Here is the link to the Costco web page with the flour but on the page there is no list of ingredients -

http://www2.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=10208999&whse=BD_767&Ne=5000001+4000000&eCat=BD_767|7446|7585|8245&N=4003791 4294920749&Mo=2&No=2&Nr=P_CatalogName:BD_767&Ns=P_Price|1||P_SignDesc1&lang=en-US&Sp=C&hierPath=7446*7585*8245*&topnav=bd


Thank You,


James


Offline Jackitup

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Re: Conagra Harvest Bread Flour
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2013, 06:31:09 AM »
here's some comments on it from awhile back  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7516.msg64585.html#msg64585 It doesn't sound like it's bromated but the Kyrol Premium High Gluten is and has a protien content around 14 if I remember. I use it and like it a lot

jon
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Offline scott123

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Re: Conagra Harvest Bread Flour
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2013, 09:41:00 AM »
James, here's some more comments:

Conagra Mills Harvest Bread Flour sold at Costco

11.7% protein is low for NY style, imo.

Kyrol gets good marks in the forum because all the people baking with it are using the bromated version.  It's a similar situation for All Trumps. Regardless of the good marks some people give them, though, I'm a fan of neither.  Both Kyrol and All Trumps are 14% protein.  While I'm not a fan of unbromated flour for NY, I'm really not a fan of unbromated 14% protein flour. 

Unbromated Kyrol and AT have 3 marks against them.

1. No bromate :)
2. 14% protein (too high for NY/too much propensity for toughness)
3. When it comes to unbromated flour, I think that companies that sell only unbromated flour (Pendleton) put out a better product than companies who's sales are made up almost entirely of their bromated versions.

You're not in a position to do anything about 1, and, thanks to Costco dropping Pendleton, 3 is more difficult, but you should be able to choose a more protein appropriate flour than 14% (too high) or 11.7% (too low).

I'd suggest blending, but two 50 lb. bags is way too much flour to work with.  I think you're going to have to go somewhere other than Costco Business.

Offline PizzaEater101

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Re: Conagra Harvest Bread Flour
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2013, 11:51:20 AM »
here's some comments on it from awhile back  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7516.msg64585.html#msg64585 It doesn't sound like it's bromated but the Kyrol Premium High Gluten is and has a protien content around 14 if I remember. I use it and like it a lot

jon


Jon thanks for the info. It just seems weird that I thought it said Potassium Bromate on the list of ingredients but I must be imagining that. I wish it was tho just to have that experience of making dough with Bromated flour.

Offline PizzaEater101

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Re: Conagra Harvest Bread Flour
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2013, 11:56:02 AM »
Scott,

I am fortunate to have still enough Power Flour left to make maybe 30 pizzas but when that's gone, well then I have to find elsewhere to get Power Flour.  What I did was I made my own mix of pizza flour. I made some using 67% Power Flour and 33% Gold Medal Better For Bread. It turned out good. You are right if I got a 50 lb bag of Kyrol and mixed it with something else it will be way too much to have on hand. The Power Flour that I originally purchased was 25 lbs.

They do have Minnesota Girl flour but I am not sure of the specs on that. For now I stick to what I have then I have to find another supplier.  Costco has cut out all pizza making products.  No more pizza peels, pans, screen, pizza cutters, no more pizza sauce nothing. I'm surprised they still have Alta Cucina whole peeled tomatoes and I wonder if they will keep that.


Offline waltertore

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Re: Conagra Harvest Bread Flour
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2013, 12:21:24 PM »
Scott,

I am fortunate to have still enough Power Flour left to make maybe 30 pizzas but when that's gone, well then I have to find elsewhere to get Power Flour.  What I did was I made my own mix of pizza flour. I made some using 67% Power Flour and 33% Gold Medal Better For Bread. It turned out good. You are right if I got a 50 lb bag of Kyrol and mixed it with something else it will be way too much to have on hand. The Power Flour that I originally purchased was 25 lbs.

They do have Minnesota Girl flour but I am not sure of the specs on that. For now I stick to what I have then I have to find another supplier.  Costco has cut out all pizza making products.  No more pizza peels, pans, screen, pizza cutters, no more pizza sauce nothing. I'm surprised they still have Alta Cucina whole peeled tomatoes and I wonder if they will keep that.

I use to use the GM harvest king(better for bread the same thing) but restaraunt depot dropped it.  I liked it for our artisan breads because it was unbleached/unbromated and about 13% if I remember right.  I miss it and now use bromated full strength for breads.   I was out in SACTO this summer and I noticed the lack of bromated flours at RD.  I use to live in Sonoma County for 15 years and ran a small bakery/pizzeria similar to what I do now and used the pendelton flour for pizza.  Walter

Offline PizzaEater101

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Re: Conagra Harvest Bread Flour
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2013, 12:35:13 PM »
Walter, thanks for the info. Before I found out about Power Flour I used pretty much Better for Bread. I liked it but I started experimenting by making pizza out of Power Flour or a mix of the two. I also tried KABF. I have tried many but never had any bromated and want to badly but in CA it's hard to.

Since you lived in CA and were in the bakery business are you familiar with Schat's Bakery? My mom told me we used to go there when I was a kid but don't recall. My neighbor goes up to Mamoth once a year and says it's his fave bakery. Do you know about this place? Supposed to be famous in certain regions of CA.

http://www.yelp.com/biz/schats-bakery-mammoth-lakes-3

Offline waltertore

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Re: Conagra Harvest Bread Flour
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2013, 12:45:57 PM »
Walter, thanks for the info. Before I found out about Power Flour I used pretty much Better for Bread. I liked it but I started experimenting by making pizza out of Power Flour or a mix of the two. I also tried KABF. I have tried many but never had any bromated and want to badly but in CA it's hard to.

Since you lived in CA and were in the bakery business are you familiar with Schat's Bakery? My mom told me we used to go there when I was a kid but don't recall. My neighbor goes up to Mamoth once a year and says it's his fave bakery. Do you know about this place? Supposed to be famous in certain regions of CA.

http://www.yelp.com/biz/schats-bakery-mammoth-lakes-3


I don't like the better for bread flour for NY style.  I was raised in NJ in the Italian  pizza/bakery world and make pies the way I was taught on vintage blodgett 1000's deck ovens.   Scott is right on the FS for NY. I flucuate between that and AT depending on what is on hand.  I find AT to be ok as well.  I mix the dough for about 8 minutes in a hobart and it is not tough to my taste.   We have a truck delivery every monday but they (GFS) doesn't carry FS but does carry AT.  I have to travel 40 miles to Columbus for FS.  If you check my link below you will see what kind of set up I have  here.  I had a similar one in CA.  I don't remember that name.  There was a big artisan bread movement starting to happen in Sonoma County when we left CA 7 years ago.  I bet it is pretty dialed in by now.  There was a NY style pizza place starting too right across the street from the school I worked at. I offered to help the owner, from NYC but didn't know a thing about pizza, but he was set on a guy he knew doing it who didn't know anything about a real NY pie.  The more I meet people who claim to make NY pies the more often than not it is not at all a NY style pie.  Walter
« Last Edit: November 07, 2013, 12:53:32 PM by waltertore »

Offline PizzaEater101

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Re: Conagra Harvest Bread Flour
« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2013, 04:33:05 PM »
I went back to Costco Business and checked the Conagra Harvest Bread Flour. For some reason I did think it said Potassium Bromate. Not sure why I thought that, maybe the power of suggestion from reading so much about this stuff, but when I checked, no it didn't have that stuff in it. It is bleached and has malt barley flour added to it and some acid something in it, I forget. Amino Acid maybe? I forget. On the Kyrol bag I was disappointed it did not show the ingredients. I see that some Kyrol has bromate and some don't so I wanted to read that on the label. I would guess in CA the Kyrol does not. From research I don't think it's illegal to sell bromated flour but it has to be labeled as a possible cancer causer. I think that label enough is to make retailers not want to sell that sort of product so it's safe to say it's gonna be hard to get bromated flour in CA.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Conagra Harvest Bread Flour
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2013, 10:24:46 AM »
James,

You can see the basic specs for the Minnesota Girl flour at about page six at http://buyersguide.foodproductdesign.com/media/54/library/FPDconagramills3.pdf

The acid you mentioned was most likely ascorbic acid (Vitamin C). It is commonly used in flours in lieu of potassium bromate.

My recollection is that General Mills uses red lettering on its flour bags that contain bromated flour.

Peter


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Re: Conagra Harvest Bread Flour
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2013, 10:30:39 AM »

Offline PizzaEater101

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Re: Conagra Harvest Bread Flour
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2013, 09:53:17 PM »
Peter, thank you for the links. It's good to be able to see the protein content of the flour types they produce.  As far as the acid goes I do recall now that you mentioned it, it was Absorbic Acid. The bags I saw did not have red lettering.

Offline mbrulato

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Re: Conagra Harvest Bread Flour
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2013, 09:09:37 AM »
James,

FWIW, this link is found on the same website that Peter recommended to Walter.  http://www.professionalbakingsolutions.com/flour/category/pizza. It gives suggestions on which of their products is best for pizza along with the protein % and availability for each geographic location in the US.  I used to use KABF and KASL high gluten flour until Scott recommended Best Bakers flour.  It has a protein % of 12.9 and is bleached and bromated.  It is only available on the East Coast, but it appears that there are some West Coast equivalents on the list.  You should be able to find some of these in your area.

This is my only experience with bleached and bromated flour, but so far, I enjoy using it to make pizza (both NY and Sicilian styles) and bread.  The oven spring and crust have greatly improved since switching from KASL.  Let us know how it goes.

Mary Ann
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Offline PizzaEater101

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Re: Conagra Harvest Bread Flour
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2013, 10:13:57 PM »
Mary Ann, thank you for the info. I am going to check that link you gave to me. I would like to find a West Coast equivalent to what you are using. I will have to do some research on that. Thank you very much Mary.

Offline waltertore

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Re: Conagra Harvest Bread Flour
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2013, 06:40:08 AM »
Walter,

As you can see at http://www.professionalbakingsolutions.com/product/harvest-king-enriched-unbleached-flour-50-lb/53722000?mct=Flour&ct=general-mills-harvest-king&typ=Brand , the GM Harvest King flour has a protein content of 12% +/- 0.2%.

Peter


thanks Peter.  I use that site often.  My GFS rep is clueless to flour and anytime I want to try and get anything GM that not on their catalog I use the GM site.  I use to email him just the name of the flour and he would email back to please give an item number.  It amazes me how little he knows of flour.  I guess it is a window into how few people out this way make real bread/pizza.  Walter

Offline mbrulato

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Re: Conagra Harvest Bread Flour
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2013, 08:23:15 AM »
Mary Ann, thank you for the info. I am going to check that link you gave to me. I would like to find a West Coast equivalent to what you are using. I will have to do some research on that. Thank you very much Mary.

James,

I forgot to mention the huge cost savings when I bought the 50# bag of Best Bakers flour.  I think the KABF was around $6 for 5 pounds and the KASL was $8 for 3 pounds.  I have a foodservice wholesaler near me that has cash and carry on Fridays and I got the Best Bakers for $19.  I bought it in September and am already half way through it   ::)

Mary Ann
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Offline PizzaEater101

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Re: Conagra Harvest Bread Flour
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2013, 12:04:28 PM »
Mary Ann,

I can't seem to find that flour around here but this is a big city so I should be able to find it. I will look more. I am not in a hurry tho as I have still enough Power Flour to last me many pizzas but eventually I need to try another flour since PF is not being sold at Costco Business anymore.


Thanks for the info!

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Conagra Harvest Bread Flour
« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2013, 01:06:13 PM »
As I believe that flour is from Scott's list of acceptable NY style flours (which I assume are all bromated), and since you are in California, I don't think you're ever going to find it. Maybe I missed an important detail earlier, but if I didn't, I don't want you to keep chasing your tail.

Offline mbrulato

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Re: Conagra Harvest Bread Flour
« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2013, 01:30:27 PM »
@Ryan-when I posted the link, I mentioned that Best Bakers is only available on the east coast but there should be a west coast equivalent on the professional baking solutions website so that James did not chase his tail  ;D
Mary Ann

Offline PizzaEater101

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Re: Conagra Harvest Bread Flour
« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2013, 03:07:13 PM »
I will find something equivalent. I can find bleached but not bromated unfortunately. But as long as I find a good flour like Power Flour I'm good. Too bad Costco Business stopped selling Power Flour. That is unbromated but it's good. I'm sure elsewhere I can find Power Flour if not Costco. Thanks.


 

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