Author Topic: Very satisfied - please comment  (Read 2967 times)

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Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Very satisfied - please comment
« Reply #20 on: November 09, 2013, 10:40:14 PM »
I think aluminum is the only material they use to make screens. I've never seen a screen made of anything other than aluminum.


Offline GarlicLover

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Re: Very satisfied - please comment
« Reply #21 on: November 09, 2013, 11:15:52 PM »
Great, thanks. This forum is really fantastic. :D

Offline RockyMountainPie

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Re: Very satisfied - please comment
« Reply #22 on: November 13, 2013, 05:52:50 PM »
GarlicLover,

I agree with just about everything Aimless Ryan has been telling you.  There are some people who actually prefer the use of a screen instead of a pan or a stone.  One reason for this may be that a screen can hold the dough in place, preventing shrinking during the bake, and this can result in a crispier crust.  See this "golden oldie" thread from 2004: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,243.msg1828.html#msg1828

And the short predecessor to that thread:
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,221.msg1606.html#msg1606


Best of luck with your pizza endeavors and keep the posts and pictures coming!  :)

--Tim
« Last Edit: November 13, 2013, 06:37:02 PM by RockyMountainPie »

Offline GarlicLover

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Re: Very satisfied - please comment
« Reply #23 on: November 15, 2013, 07:02:46 PM »
Thanks for the links, RockyMountainPie. :)

Alright, so I got my pizza screens and I'll be making pizza tomorrow. If I gathered correctly, I absolutely have to "season" the screens to prevent pizza from sticking to them. I found a website which also describes the process in detail:

http://www.pizzapie24x7.com/screen.shtml

Is this info accurate? Do I have to keep anything else in mind?

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Very satisfied - please comment
« Reply #24 on: November 15, 2013, 07:42:46 PM »
I've never bothered seasoning screens. (OK, I did it with one screen.) There's really no reason to do it. Despite what most people believe, the purpose of seasoning a pan is NOT to give it a nonstick surface. The purpose of seasoning a pan is to make the bottom of the pan dark so it will absorb heat, rather than reflecting heat, which is what natural metallic-colored surfaces do. Reflecting heat is essentially not an issue with screens because there is nothing there to reflect heat. (Also, seasoning a pan does not give the pan a nonstick surface.)

If I was going to season a screen, I wouldn't do it how that page told me to do it.

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Very satisfied - please comment
« Reply #25 on: November 15, 2013, 08:13:39 PM »
GarlicLover,

Sometimes pizza screens can be used without first seasoning them. Over time, with repeated use, they usually become seasoned, with better heat absorption qualities.

However, pizza operators who work with large numbers of screens will usually preseason them. You can read how this is typically done toward the end of Tom Lehmann's PMQ Think Tank post at http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3550&p=18704&hilit=#p18704 .

I have actually used the screen seasoning method as described in the article you referenced. I had no problems doing so. Using a spray works well for a small number of screens. Brushing the screens with small amounts of oil will also work but you can expect a lot of smoke. So, in a home setting you might season multiple screens one at a time.

One of the things you do not want to do when using a screen is to not let a skin, especially one with a high hydration value, sit on the screen too long. That can cause the skin to "sink" into the opening in the screen and become permanently attached thereto. Seasoning of the screen helps to reduce the likelihood of this outcome.

Peter

Offline GarlicLover

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Re: Very satisfied - please comment
« Reply #26 on: November 15, 2013, 08:52:52 PM »
I've never bothered seasoning screens. (OK, I did it with one screen.) There's really no reason to do it. Despite what most people believe, the purpose of seasoning a pan is NOT to give it a nonstick surface.

Then what's the best way to avoid sticking?

Quote
If I was going to season a screen, I wouldn't do it how that page told me to do it.

Feel free to give me your technique. :D

One of the things you do not want to do when using a screen is to not let a skin, especially one with a high hydration value, sit on the screen too long. That can cause the skin to "sink" into the opening in the screen and become permanently attached thereto. Seasoning of the screen helps to reduce the likelihood of this outcome.

Well, tomorrow will be my first time using a real pizza screen. What are some other things I should pay attention to in order to avoid sticking?

I thought about doing the following, but I don't know if it would be a good idea: As soon as I place the dough onto the screen, I put it in the oven for about 1 - 2 minutes, then take it out in order to place the toppings. Would this make a difference as far as sticking is concerned?

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Very satisfied - please comment
« Reply #27 on: November 15, 2013, 09:17:50 PM »
The best way to avoid sticking is to do what Peter said in his final paragraph (the paragraph you quoted).

If I was going to season a screen, I would do it in a grill outside, at a temperature of about 500 F. I'm not sure what that guy thinks is supposed to happen by putting an oiled screen in a 300-degree oven, since 300 degrees is well below the smoke point of probably all cooking oils. I'd love to hear if Peter has an explanation for why you might want to do that, particularly because most of what I know about seasoning is at least built upon a foundation of information supplied by Peter. Here's a blog post about how I seasoned a cutter pan, with pictures (and probably some smart-ass commentary as well): http://ryanspizzablog.blogspot.com/2012/09/how-to-season-pizza-pan.html.

I'm thinking your dough is not excessively soft or wet, so you should not have any problems baking on a screen. Just don't allow your dough to sit on the screen for a long time before baking. And certainly don't press your dough into the screen. Honestlly, you might be able to leave the dough on the screen for a considerably long time and still not have a problem.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2013, 09:19:37 PM by Aimless Ryan »

Offline GarlicLover

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Re: Very satisfied - please comment
« Reply #28 on: November 15, 2013, 09:36:58 PM »
What about this:

Quote
"New screens have to be seasoned before they can be used. Failure to do so will result in the pizzas sticking (a bit of an understatement) to the screens. To season the screens, set your oven temperature at 425F, wipe the screens with oil and pass them through the oven for about 10-minutes. DO NOT WASH THE SEASONED SCREENS as this will cause the seasoning to begin lifting off of the screens like a bad sunburn. Then you will need to strip the screens and start all over again. After the screens are seasoned, they will have a slight amber color. This will darken to near black with continued use. This is perfectly normal. You might want to very lightly oil the screens the first time you use them after seasoning, but after that, you don't need to oil them again."

Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor


Source: http://thinktank.pmq.com/viewtopic.php?t=7955&p=54733

Offline GarlicLover

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Re: Very satisfied - please comment
« Reply #29 on: November 15, 2013, 09:40:00 PM »
I thought about doing the following, but I don't know if it would be a good idea: As soon as I place the dough onto the screen, I put it in the oven for about 1 - 2 minutes, then take it out in order to place the toppings. Would this make a difference as far as sticking is concerned?


Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Very satisfied - please comment
« Reply #30 on: November 15, 2013, 10:59:21 PM »
Go ahead and season the screens if you want. I don't think I really meant to tell you not to. I was only saying that I've never found it necessary.

There's no real reason to do what you described (parbaking). Don't overthink it. You're kinda overthinking it and worrying about things you'll most likely never need to worry about. Just do the same thing you were doing with the pan, unless you were pressing the dough into the pan. You'll be fine. Trust yourself.

Offline GarlicLover

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Re: Very satisfied - please comment
« Reply #31 on: November 16, 2013, 06:49:31 PM »
So I used my new screens today. Seasoned them a few hours earlier. The pizza was really great. :D I will use the screens everytime now instead of the pans.

You might notice that the bottom of the pizza is a little white. Well the only reason for this is because I used a generous amount of flour to prevent the dough from sticking - but I have noticed that I won't need to do this in the future. I made three pizzas, and had no sticking problems whatsoever. Maybe it's because I seasoned the screens well, or maybe because the dough is not too wet, or perhaps both of these things played a role. In any case, the pizza tasted great, and the crust was really really good too. The best tasting crust I've personally made so far.

I baked the pizzas at 482F for 13 minutes. The cheese burnt just a little, and now I see I could have baked it at 12 or 11 minutes to prevent this from happening. Here are some pics. Please feel free to comment. :)

Offline GarlicLover

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Re: Very satisfied - please comment
« Reply #32 on: November 17, 2013, 08:43:27 PM »
Now here are some pics of today's pizzas which were absolutely fantastic. ;D Without a doubt the best pies I have ever made.

I was really surprised that they turned out this good in my oven at only 482 degrees Fahrenheit, with neither a stone or a steel plate. The pizza screens definitely make a difference.

Please feel free to comment.

Offline GarlicLover

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Re: Very satisfied - please comment
« Reply #33 on: November 17, 2013, 08:53:31 PM »
I definitely feel like I progressed from "newbie" to "novice" in the past few weeks. ;D

Thoughts? :D Am I really ready to call myself a novice pizza maker?

Online TXCraig1

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Re: Very satisfied - please comment
« Reply #34 on: November 17, 2013, 09:18:53 PM »
That looks really good. I like the melt of the cheese and the crumb.
I love pigs. They convert vegetables into bacon.

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Very satisfied - please comment
« Reply #35 on: November 17, 2013, 09:27:24 PM »
GarlicLover,

I agree that your pizza looks good. Can you tell me the size of the screen/pizza? Also, was the bottom of the crust on the light or white side? If so, sometime you might want to try using the combination of screen and stone. I believe I previously referred you to a post that describes how to do this.

Peter

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Very satisfied - please comment
« Reply #36 on: November 17, 2013, 09:30:08 PM »
The first one in Reply #32 looks a lot better than your first screen pizza. The second one, too, probably, but to a lesser degree. Looks kinda like maybe you gave the dough a little more time in the fridge than normal.

I just happened to look at your original post. These all look way better than your pizza in the original post. And the pizza in the original post didn't look bad; it just didn't look anything like a NY style pizza. More like something from Pizza Hut. These look much more like NY style.

Offline GarlicLover

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Re: Very satisfied - please comment
« Reply #37 on: November 17, 2013, 09:49:20 PM »
That looks really good. I like the melt of the cheese and the crumb.

Thank you, thank you, thank you. It's posts like these that encourage me and give me motivation for making pizza.

I agree that your pizza looks good. Can you tell me the size of the screen/pizza? Also, was the bottom of the crust on the light or white side? If so, sometime you might want to try using the combination of screen and stone. I believe I previously referred you to a post that describes how to do this.

The screens are exactly 35.5 cm (13.97 in), and the pizzas are also about the same size. The first pizza I made on the screen was somewhat light on the bottom, but as I said in my earlier post, this was because I used a generous amount of flour on the bottom... because I was afraid the dough would stick to the screen (due to horror-stories I've read online).

BTW, I am not using a stone... because the stone I ordered was way too small for the pizzas I make. Perhaps I'll get a steel plate or a bigger stone in the future. Right now I'm extremely satisfied with these screens.

The first one in Reply #32 looks a lot better than your first screen pizza. The second one, too, probably, but to a lesser degree. Looks kinda like maybe you gave the dough a little more time in the fridge than normal.

I just happened to look at your original post. These all look way better than your pizza in the original post. And the pizza in the original post didn't look bad; it just didn't look anything like a NY style pizza. More like something from Pizza Hut. These look much more like NY style.

Exactly! My previous pizzas really tasted great, but they were indeed sort of "Pizza Hut" style, just the way you described them! On the other hand, today's pizzas were really really close to NY-style... which is what my goal was in the first place. :D

In fact, as far as I'm concerned they were NY-style, but of course lower quality NY-style... because of 1.) not enough heat, 2.) no stone/steel plate, and 3.) no high-gluten flour. Either way these were the best pies I've ever made, and I thank this forum, and everyone who contributes to it, and everyone who answered my questions.

I'm definitely NOT a newbie anymore. ;D

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Very satisfied - please comment
« Reply #38 on: November 17, 2013, 10:10:43 PM »
BTW, I am not using a stone... because the stone I ordered was way too small for the pizzas I make. Perhaps I'll get a steel plate or a bigger stone in the future. Right now I'm extremely satisfied with these screens.
GarlicLover,

You can preheat the stone on the lowest oven rack position to the highest temperature your oven can deliver but start the pizza on the screen at a higher oven position. Once the pizza sets and is firm, it can be shifted off of the screen onto the preheated stone, at which point you remove the screen from the oven. The pizza will overlap the stone but that won't be a problem because the pizza is firm. I have made 18" pizzas on a 14" x 16" stone using an 18" screen. You can also move the pizza from the stone back to a higher oven position if you find you need more top crust coloration or the cheese needs more color or the toppings need further cooking.

Peter

Offline GarlicLover

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Re: Very satisfied - please comment
« Reply #39 on: November 17, 2013, 10:29:12 PM »
You can preheat the stone on the lowest oven rack position to the highest temperature your oven can deliver but start the pizza on the screen at a higher oven position. Once the pizza sets and is firm, it can be shifted off of the screen onto the preheated stone, at which point you remove the screen from the oven. The pizza will overlap the stone but that won't be a problem because the pizza is firm. I have made 18" pizzas on a 14" x 16" stone using an 18" screen. You can also move the pizza from the stone back to a higher oven position if you find you need more top crust coloration or the cheese needs more color or the toppings need further cooking.

I know what you're saying, but my problem is this: I heard I would have to preheat the stone for at least two hours. Is this true? That just seems like a long time... because right now I only preheat my oven for 30 minutes to achieve the 482 degrees Fahrenheit. Secondly, if it doesn't make a HUGE difference, I don't know if it's worth the time and the electricity costs. :D I mean here's my question... how much better is a pizza cooked on a stone at 482F versus a pizza cooked on a screen at this exact same temperature? In this case I mean NY-style pizza, or something very close to NY-style.

Now, if the pizza overlaps the stone... this means that one part of the pizza is being cooked through the stone, and the overlapping parts aren't being cooked through the stone. I'm not sure if this has the same effect as if I had a larger stone with space for the whole pizza? To clarify... I know that the pizza would already be firm enough from cooking on the screen, but I just feel like I wouldn't be using the effect of the stone to the fullest, since the stone is not covering the whole pizza. Am I wrong?


 

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