Author Topic: Ferrara VS Gianni Acunto  (Read 5214 times)

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Offline JConk007

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Re: Ferrara VS Gianni Acunto
« Reply #20 on: January 26, 2014, 08:21:38 AM »
Yes Personally I prefer Mario over Gianni and either over Stefano.
Yes Roberto Uses Gianni at Starita, Keste ,and Dualing Giannis at the new Location in Atlanta #1
as well as Marcos Coal Fired (only 1 coal for food other wood for pies)  Denver and .... I can go on and on  ;)
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Offline pizzanapoletana

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Re: Ferrara VS Gianni Acunto
« Reply #21 on: February 07, 2014, 02:18:41 PM »
Yes Personally I prefer Mario over Gianni and either over Stefano.
Yes Roberto Uses Gianni at Starita, Keste ,and Dualing Giannis at the new Location in Atlanta #1
as well as Marcos Coal Fired (only 1 coal for food other wood for pies)  Denver and .... I can go on and on  ;)

Kesté is not an Acunto oven. It just mount the Acunto oven door. Regards

Offline JConk007

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Re: Ferrara VS Gianni Acunto
« Reply #22 on: February 08, 2014, 01:17:18 PM »
Marco are the 2 new ovens in atlanta Not Acuntos either ?
thanks for the clarification
John
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Offline pizzanapoletana

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Re: Ferrara VS Gianni Acunto
« Reply #23 on: February 13, 2014, 06:46:26 PM »
The ovens in the picture you have titled dualing Starita etccc are Acunto. Throughout this site there are a lot of miss-associations of ovens to oven builders, or in the case of the oven building thread, a lot of amateurs being indicated as professional examples to get inspirations from...

In any case, there are only a couple of us that gets the doors artisanaly made, most out there are using either Gianni Acunto's door or Acunto's Clones (they used to buy Acunto's then got someone else copying the door for them).

Ciao

edit: within this thread, KESTE's and A MANO's ARE NOT Acunto ovens
« Last Edit: February 13, 2014, 06:50:30 PM by pizzanapoletana »

Offline Peasant

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Re: Ferrara VS Gianni Acunto
« Reply #24 on: February 15, 2014, 02:54:23 PM »
Yes Personally I prefer Mario over Gianni and either over Stefano.
Yes Roberto Uses Gianni at Starita, Keste ,and Dualing Giannis at the new Location in Atlanta #1
as well as Marcos Coal Fired (only 1 coal for food other wood for pies)  Denver and .... I can go on and on  ;)

WHy do you prefer the Mario over the Gianni?

Offline JConk007

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Re: Ferrara VS Gianni Acunto
« Reply #25 on: February 15, 2014, 06:38:07 PM »
First off they are less $$ money than gianni or stefano also  all Hand Made. Both are UL listed.  I personally like the look of the volcano and Volcano extra. Just different than every other same look neapolitan oven. The bottom course of brick  just over first line of bricks on the Mario each brick is hand cut at and angle to form the supporting structure.  On the Giani the dome is precast and then lined with bricks,I also like the buit in /integrated leg system on the Mario very safe.  Also to best of my my knowledge the thickness of the Insulation in the Mario below the hearth  is the thickest on the Market of the imported ovens right around 13 3/4 inches ! Also the wall and dome and wall insulation  is superior  to others that have been reported to be running around 200 degrees after a service,Not with Acunto. Again just my opinion and there are  few hard #'s and  temp readings to back that up.   I also like the finish look of the inside of the ovens its Not a sloppy mess. So craftmanship I guess? They are both quailty built "mobile ovens" and to each his own, this is just my humble opinion and what I would pick, aside from a built in place oven like Marco offers with Forno Napoletano. I am happy to sell whatever make model and style the customers desires. Give us a few years and you will see alot more Acunto across america  ;) 
hope that helps?
Below are 1-Mario, 2-Stefano, 3-Gianni dome shots

John
« Last Edit: February 15, 2014, 06:49:13 PM by JConk007 »
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Offline Peasant

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Re: Ferrara VS Gianni Acunto
« Reply #26 on: February 16, 2014, 07:40:20 AM »
First off they are less $$ money than gianni or stefano also  all Hand Made. Both are UL listed.  I personally like the look of the volcano and Volcano extra. Just different than every other same look neapolitan oven. The bottom course of brick  just over first line of bricks on the Mario each brick is hand cut at and angle to form the supporting structure.  On the Giani the dome is precast and then lined with bricks,I also like the buit in /integrated leg system on the Mario very safe.  Also to best of my my knowledge the thickness of the Insulation in the Mario below the hearth  is the thickest on the Market of the imported ovens right around 13 3/4 inches ! Also the wall and dome and wall insulation  is superior  to others that have been reported to be running around 200 degrees after a service,Not with Acunto. Again just my opinion and there are  few hard #'s and  temp readings to back that up.   I also like the finish look of the inside of the ovens its Not a sloppy mess. So craftmanship I guess? They are both quailty built "mobile ovens" and to each his own, this is just my humble opinion and what I would pick, aside from a built in place oven like Marco offers with Forno Napoletano. I am happy to sell whatever make model and style the customers desires. Give us a few years and you will see alot more Acunto across america  ;) 
hope that helps?
Below are 1-Mario, 2-Stefano, 3-Gianni dome shots

John

Thanks John! I saw some of those number differences in spec sheets but opinions on workmanship are harder to find. I've looked in several different ovens but it's of course hard to compare as each oven has undergone different lengths of use or abuse.

Offline thezaman

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Re: Ferrara VS Gianni Acunto
« Reply #27 on: February 16, 2014, 09:03:49 PM »
john, the floor om the ferrara oven looks pitted. is that just the lighting?

Offline pizzanapoletana

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Re: Ferrara VS Gianni Acunto
« Reply #28 on: February 21, 2014, 05:32:50 AM »
John, it looks like you re-sell ovens now, but not sure where you got your info from. Those mobile MA were first created for the Pizzafest in Naples in the 90s as specific street show pieces. These are light , cheaper and are not even considered in the same league as proper built on site ones. The first layer of bricks, standing up, is placed with the smaller thickness in depth (5.5-6 cm approx vs 11cm), again for lightness of the oven, and actually is again a cheaper design that also can cause a floor/dome unbalance.

The Vesuvio shape is just an exsterior shape, and as far the functionality needed is maintained anyone could make it of any shape (I personally prefer the exterior that follow the actual functionality. A lot of those pictures appeared on this site in the last few years, actually shows a lot of worrying dome design that should be a more relevant valuation factor than any other (it will visibly affect fire management).

Finally may I ask you what the 200 value refer to? Is inside walls temperature or outside walls temperature? Is that in F or C? And how many hours after operation would be measured? Wîth coals still in or removed? If outside, which side of the oven?

Thanks
« Last Edit: February 21, 2014, 06:05:05 AM by pizzanapoletana »

Offline ibleedpizzasauce

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Re: Ferrara VS Gianni Acunto
« Reply #29 on: February 22, 2014, 09:56:39 PM »



Very interesting.... this should be super fun! =) Let me start by saying I am a dealer and importer of all these ovens so I hold “ZERO” special interest and instead offer guidance as a consultation, facts from manufacturers cut sheets of differences and opportunity in letting clients clearly touch, inspect and bake on each oven within their research and pizza baking objective within review, so they are not cornered or have one manufacturer shoved down their throat verses another. I will “in fact” clarify a few things on behalf of Acunto Mario because they are not witnessing your allegations but with spec sheet manufacturing data and a clear vision I trust the readers will have we will clarify the fogginess offered in your words and statements.

Your statement: “John, it looks like you re-sell ovens now, but not sure where you got your info from”.

* John is not a reseller but a consultant of our company Wood Fired Oven Baker, Inc. a direct importer and dealer of multiple 40' containers every month out of Naples, Italy. We export and import all these manufacturers Acunto Gianni, Acunto Mario, Stefano Ferrara, Valoriani, etc...That you have named. John is also a private pizzaiolo chef with many-many years in the business. His pies tell many "amazing" stories and his training skills and help with hundreds if not thousands of pizzaiolo chefs here on this forum are truly awesome!

Your statement: Those mobile MA (meaning Mario Acunto) were first created for the Pizzafest in Naples in the 90s as specific street show pieces.

* You say, "Street show pie"...

...Interesting...Mario Acunto has a family history of manufacturing ovens since 1892 not the 90's as you say...fact.... Mario Acunto is situated in a manufacturing facility in equivalent to USA measuring standards over 36,000 sq. ft. just outside kilometers from downtown Naples. They export easily by record more ovens than the other two combined manufacturers (Acunto Gianni and Stefano Ferrara) around the world yearly in which you have misled the reader. It is just until late 2013 that Mario Acunto deemed the US market interesting seeking all UL/NSF certifications on the Classico wood burning models 5-7-10 etc.… (120cm, 130cm, 140cm). Hands down this is an exporting fact out of Italy into all surrounding country’s seeking Acunto Mario. Export records can be researched to clarify this for you. My pleasure to direct you. ...Still to the day, in his early 70's now, Mario Acunto himself orchestrates with a team of professional forni manufacturers and his family building all of these ovens by hand. The ovens are still being handcrafted over 100 yrs. later not the 90’s. I've been there at the Mario Acunto facility taking thousands of photos of the manufacturing facilities all throughout Italy in which we import. I've also been to Gianni Acuntos facility with Gianni and Marco Acunto and Stefano Ferraras facility with Stefano as I also import S.F. Forni as well. Actually Stefano will be with us at our facility in less than 10 days and eating at my kitchen table in Denver just before we fly to the East Coast March 4th for a project. Interesting to show him your post as well. Both Gianni Acunto brother of Mario Acunto who have been manufacturing ovens in their family since 1892 as well as the Stefano Ferrara manufacturing facility whom has been manufacturing ovens since 2001 are approximately (10 x's smaller) in manufacturing space than Mario Acunto. Is that what you call street show pie manufacturing? The masses would love to hear I’m sure on this forum. The people on this blog cannot be brainwashed by silliness and remarks. And might I add over 120 yrs. of forni manufacturing history and artisan skill has been with the Acunto family both Mario and Gianni that until this last decade was one and not two companies. For what you are saying calling it a “street pie company” that's just down right silly and obviously your words are opinion and you have a vested interest. How about being transparent? I am stating "facts" here! 

Your Statement: "These are light, cheaper and are not even considered in the same league as proper built on site ones".

Statement: "You say Lighter"
...Interesting again...next to both Acunto Gianni and Stefano Ferrara Forni, Mario Acunto Forni have the heaviest ovens on the market in these three comparisons. They have without a doubt of understanding clear numbers the thickest bottom of oven-to-oven top floor over 13.75 inches thick. The dome insulated refractory also the thickest. All of this creates the weight of accepting the energy of the fire and the heat. May I ask where you are getting your statistics because I can show you "raw manufacturing data spec sheets as well as container weights with itemized weight schedules per oven"? =) Everyone here can see them by web searching the spec sheets. All public and clear knowledge. Geeesh... I love math and numbers and not speculation. Again, you cant’s twist a number into another one just because you would like to.

* Statement: "You say Cheaper"
...A sale of a product is by what someone wants to sell them for “being me offering value to my clients” and since I am the only one importing containers of all these manufacturers not just one manufacturer, in doing so I make the prices. Actually I can make them any price and if you would like to see pricing please visit woodfiredovenbaker.com and you will see the pricing schedule of each manufacturer for comparing. For clarification for you to be outlined as the following from most expensive to least expensive...Acunto Gianni, Acunto Mario, Stefano Ferrara... Maybe tomorrow I will make them more maybe or less but I do know that price says absolutely nothing about quality. We see this everyday around us as consumers. If you would like I have an oven I can sell you for 20,000 USD does that make that oven better or does the manufacturing skill and length of time in the business paired with decades of research, materials being implemented and value of one's craft in essence create the cost of the ovens outline value?  Ha-ha...silly.... the term less expensive is how I offer value to our clients instead of lining my pockets with their 100 bills. "Value"... I make less because I can. I do not have greed to feed daily. I also drive a 20K VW not a 80K Maserati.

Statement: You say "The first layer of bricks, standing up, is placed with the smaller thickness in depth (5.5-6 cm approx. vs. 11cm), again for lightness of the oven, and actually is again a cheaper design that also can cause a floor/dome unbalance.

* This design has been created from an engineer Mario Acunto after building up and tearing down dozens of ovens. It is for a very clear reason so please pay close attention…science shares with us that a horizontal brick straight up an down over time will fall more easily meaning dome collapse if a wall is deteriorated from impact consistently like wood logs being hit within the oven or the heating up and cooling off daily from 1,000 degrees to 400 degrees. Turning a brick from one direct to the side does not make that same brick weigh less. The brick is still the brick. Behind that brick there is actually the thickest refractory material shown in measurement of numbers, which again can’t be manipulated with words than the other two ovens also outlined. Impact and weight stability is the key here. Just like the roof palaces and structures of Greece and Roman buildings the arches are created slowly on a curve to handle the massive weight of the roof. In terms of an oven this would be the dome. Mario Acunto the engineer himself starts the base brick walls to the dome with each and every brick cut on an angle slightly to handle the dome weight and refractory dome thickness as well as the fluctuation in heat or constant impact of a log in a hot dome. If you also read clearly the spec sheets you will see that the dome wall and refractory all the way to the exterior of the oven exterior finish is in fact the thickest as well of the three ovens outlined. Can I please ask you, how are you getting your numbers? How do you call this light when it’s the heaviest oven of the three manufacturers model number mobile fleet outlined? There is no unbalance here but your speculation! This does not also make a less expensive design but in the engineers and artisans eye who has been building these ovens since he was a child over 60 years ago from his father “strong” and a foundation for durability! Floor/Dome unbalance, these words together when speaking of the facts above do not correlate. We do see one thing that you have clearly stated, yes they are not an oven built fixed in one place as mobile Stefano Ferraras are not as well either the GA series Gianni Acuntos.



Your Statement: The Vesuvio shape is just an exterior shape, and as far the functionality needed is maintained anyone could make it of any shape (I personally prefer the exterior that follow the actual functionality. A lot of those pictures appeared on this site in the last few years, actually shows a lot of worrying dome design that should be a more relevant valuation factor than any other (it will visibly affect fire management).

* All of those pictures are current pictures of ovens from me and those ovens are on site in my warehouse premises as we speak. John is not conveying anything by sharing. He is letting the reader view the photo of finish work all for themselves. Again something a picture can tell us 1,000 words. They are not pictures from previous years. They show current time "Todays Craftsmanship" in all three manufacturers ovens that come in here and that are here month after month!

Your question: Finally may I ask you what the 200 value refer to?

* This 200-250 value refers to the exterior dome temperature of the exterior of the oven. We get calls monthly referring to the outside temperatures and why. I'd like you to give me one contact of an oven that reaches temperatures on the exterior of an Acunto Mario Forni please at 250 properly seasoned and opperated? If operated properly with the refractory thickness and manufacturing, proper start up and cureing as well as proper operation they should never get to this temperature. Some ovens do and I have a list of the restaurants and the inquiry some of them perhaps even reading this forum and I do not have one so far being an Acunto Mario Forni.

Is inside walls temperature or outside walls temperature?

* It's the outside wall temperature of the ovens that has been clocked over 200 degrees F none being Acunto Mario Forni to date. Is that in F or C? Answered...

And how many hours after operation would be measured?

* 12 hrs. of operation per day but doesn't need to be. These temperatures are showing up as exterior dome temps after 8 hrs. at times.

With coals still in or removed?

* Ash and coals and fire inside...doesn't matter. Fire roaring, the ovens should not reach the exterior temperatures of 200-250 degrees F if properly insulated and safely and properly cured and operated. Doesn’t happen on a Mario Acunto Forni.

* If outside, which side of the oven?

* Clients have shared these temperatures on all side of oven doesn't matter the banking side of wood or the opposite or the back. Not relevant in this case. The statement is that the ovens are seeing temperatures sometimes between 200-250 degrees F.


Offline ibleedpizzasauce

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Re: Ferrara VS Gianni Acunto
« Reply #30 on: February 22, 2014, 10:37:46 PM »
Here are a few visits to all manufacturing facilities outlined above.

BTW, I was wonder if you have seen the facilities with your own eyes of all manufacturers outlined above.... manufacturing technique, materials used and where they are sourced, specific specifications, review and study of floor heat sink and dome thermal mass...etc.??? We are talking of the upper tier of quality Italian manufacturers of ovens offering mobile forni models.

On a side note, UL/NSF has strict standards and guidelines for safe manufacturing and fire/heat control to combustable. All three manufacturers now have UL/NSF certification. We are speaking here of some of the top manufacturers in the industry without a doubt.

It's unfortunate to see the bashing you have done towards the specific oven manufacturers without review of clear spec sheets giving onto the pizza world much of your personal opinion as well as uninformed specifics and speculation.

I trust the next forum will be reviewed a bit more thoroughly.

Kindness,
ellie

Offline ibleedpizzasauce

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Re: Ferrara VS Gianni Acunto
« Reply #31 on: February 22, 2014, 10:39:19 PM »
S. F. Forni facility

Offline ibleedpizzasauce

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Re: Ferrara VS Gianni Acunto
« Reply #32 on: February 22, 2014, 10:40:39 PM »
Acunto Mario Forni

Offline ibleedpizzasauce

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Re: Ferrara VS Gianni Acunto
« Reply #33 on: February 22, 2014, 10:41:39 PM »
Acunto Mario with Salvatore

Offline ibleedpizzasauce

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Re: Ferrara VS Gianni Acunto
« Reply #34 on: February 22, 2014, 10:42:28 PM »
Gianni Acunto Forni

Offline ibleedpizzasauce

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Re: Ferrara VS Gianni Acunto
« Reply #35 on: February 22, 2014, 10:44:15 PM »
Gianni Acunto Forni

Offline ibleedpizzasauce

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Re: Ferrara VS Gianni Acunto
« Reply #36 on: February 22, 2014, 10:44:51 PM »
Gianni Acunto Forni Fixed Legs...

Offline ibleedpizzasauce

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Re: Ferrara VS Gianni Acunto
« Reply #37 on: February 22, 2014, 10:46:05 PM »
Mario Acunto Forni

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Re: Ferrara VS Gianni Acunto
« Reply #38 on: February 22, 2014, 10:46:50 PM »
Mario Acunto Forni Classico Vulcano

Offline ibleedpizzasauce

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Re: Ferrara VS Gianni Acunto
« Reply #39 on: February 22, 2014, 10:47:30 PM »
Mario Acunto Classico