Author Topic: First Attempt Lehmann's NY Style Pizza. Advice/ Suggestions please  (Read 1081 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline NickM

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 11
  • Location: Jacksonville, FL
  • I Love Pizza!
Tonight I made my first two pizzas and they were delicious.  The first one came out burnt but they were both awesome.  I have been getting a lot of help and suggestions from Scott so thanks Scott.  I am hoping for some helpful advise and suggestions based on my experience.  I made two 14" Lehmann style pizzas on a 1/2" steel plate that I acquired from work.  The dough recipe is as follows:

100% KAAP flour (I couldn't find high gluten)
63% hydration (I had to add about three TBSP of flour because the dough was way too sticky)
.2% IDY (Fleishmann's Bread Machine Yeast)
1% salt (Morton Iodized Salt)
1% oil (Daily Chef Extra Virgin Olive Oil)

I made the dough last night and placed in the fridge for 24 hours.  The used my wife's Kitchen Aid standup mixer.  The biggest issue was dough stickiness.  I am thinking it was because I used KAAP instead of high gluten which I couldn't find.  I added more flour and it seemed to get a better consistency.

Today I made the sauce from scratch and I really need advice on this matter.  It seems most people on here use canned tomatoes and I wanted to experiment with fresh tomatoes and it didn't go well.  I blanched and deseeded six vine ripened tomatoes and pureed with a stick blender.  The sauce was WAY TOO WATERY.  I added fresh oregano, basil, and garlic as well as very little ( 1/2 TSP of sugar and salt)  I didn't want to simmer or cook the sauce to thicken because I didn't want to lose flavor but I really need advice on using fresh tomatoes for sauce.  What type of tomatoes do you recommend and how do you prepare the sauce?  If necessary I will use canned tomatoes but I definitely need a thicker sauce next time.  I used just a minimal amount of the sauce on the pizza because it was so watery. 

I added the sliced (not grated) mozzarella and then olives and pepperoni.  I forgot to add olive oil at the end but I don't think it really needed it. 

The baking was an issue as well.  I don't own a pizza peel yet so I had a major issue getting the pizza on the steel plate.  I tried using a pizza stone as a peel with lots of corn meal and flour but the pizza was not wanting to slide onto the plate so I had to use two spatulas to coerce the pizza onto the plate.  As you can see from the pictures the pizzas were more oval than circular. 

I placed the plate on the TOP rack and preheated the oven to 550F for 1 1/2 hours and ten minutes before I put in the pizza in I turned the broiler on high.  The caused the top to cook a little faster than the bottom and my first pizza had a burnt top.  It was still very delicious though!!!  I think next time I will broil on low and or move the rack one slot lower.

All in all my first experience was a success and I want to thank everyone on this site for your help. 


Online Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21904
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: First Attempt Lehmann's NY Style Pizza. Advice/ Suggestions please
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2013, 08:33:44 PM »
Nick,

I believe you have correctly assessed the problem with using the KAAP flour with a hydration of 63%. KAAP flour has a rated absorption value of 60%. With proper dough management you might be able to squeeze in a bit more water but I would opt for a hydration of around 60%.

I also think you are low on the salt. So, unless you are on a sodium-restricted diet, I suggest that you increase the salt to 1.75-2%. I normally would use more than 0.20% IDY this time of year, but if you are getting decent volume expansion of the dough after 24 hours, you might stick with that value. You can also get increased volume expansion by letting the dough temper at room temperature for 2-3 hours after removing the dough from the refrigerator.

Looking at your pizzas, I'm reasonably confident that you will get improved results with a bit more practice and experience. Eventually, you may want to look for a higher protein flour than the KAAP flour.

Peter

Offline JHutchins

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 26
  • Location: NY state
Re: First Attempt Lehmann's NY Style Pizza. Advice/ Suggestions please
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2013, 12:11:27 AM »
I would recommend using parchment paper until you get a peel. I use it but remove it when I turn my pizzas after about 2 1/2 to 3 minutes.

If you have a fine mesh strainer, just strain your tomatoes until you get the thickness you want. It's an easy way to get rid of some water.

Offline NickM

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 11
  • Location: Jacksonville, FL
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: First Attempt Lehmann's NY Style Pizza. Advice/ Suggestions please
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2013, 04:36:23 PM »
Thanks everyone for the advice I am taking another stab at it tonight.  I will add more salt and IDY to the dough and my wife picked me up some canned crushed tomatoes for my sauce.  I will let everyone know how they turn out tomorrow.  I would still like to experiment with fresh tomatoes but my goal is to opens small NY style pizzeria in one year.  Do most pizzerias used canned tomatoes for sauce?

Offline Aimless Ryan

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 1913
  • Location: Grove City (Columbus), Ohio
    • Snarky
Re: First Attempt Lehmann's NY Style Pizza. Advice/ Suggestions please
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2013, 05:06:44 PM »
Do most pizzerias used canned tomatoes for sauce?

Yes. Pretty much all of them.

Online scott123

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 6935
Re: First Attempt Lehmann's NY Style Pizza. Advice/ Suggestions please
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2013, 05:16:41 PM »
I am taking another stab at it tonight... ...I will let everyone know how they turn out tomorrow.


While many pizzeria owners make dough that ferments quickly (the same day), the almost unanimous consensus of the members here in the forum is that longer ferments (at least overnight, but, preferably, two days) produce a much better tasting crust.

Here's my (what I consider to be) simple recipe:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,27591.0.html

Note: this will work just fine with steel, although I'd probably pre-heat your steel to 525 rather than 550. I'm specifically providing this recipe to you because it's KABF, which I'm certain that you have access to, and will outperform KAAP.

The thickness factor (the relation of the dough ball size to the diameter of the pizza) is critical, though.  What size steel did you get? If you're going to follow that recipe, you'll need at least a 17" square piece of steel- larger if your oven can accommodate it.

Size is such an incredibly huge component of NY style pizza- larger slices look better, and because the ratio of rim to sauce/cheese decreases, they taste better.  Larger pizzas, though, are harder to stretch and launch- you can't start working with larger pizzas too early, especially if you plan on eventually selling slices. Do you think you'll be selling slices?

Did you acquire a peel?

Btw, always grate your mozzarella.  If you don't grate it, it won't melt/bubble correctly and it won't be as flavorful.

Quote
Do most pizzerias used canned tomatoes for sauce?


I've never heard of a domestic NY style pizzeria using fresh tomatoes for a sauce.  I think, for a while, Chris Bianco was using fresh tomatoes, but his is a Neapolitan/NY hybrid.  Many pizzerias will use fresh tomato slices as a topping, but will never use them for sauce.


Online Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21904
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: First Attempt Lehmann's NY Style Pizza. Advice/ Suggestions please
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2013, 05:24:20 PM »
Scott,

My recollection from several years ago is that Dom DeMarco at DiFara's added some fresh tomatoes to his sauce. But not just by itself. I have no idea as to what his current pizza sauce constitutes.

Peter

Online scott123

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 6935
Re: First Attempt Lehmann's NY Style Pizza. Advice/ Suggestions please
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2013, 05:28:41 PM »
Peter, thanks, that's good to know.

Offline NickM

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 11
  • Location: Jacksonville, FL
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: First Attempt Lehmann's NY Style Pizza. Advice/ Suggestions please
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2013, 06:10:17 PM »
Scott,
    The plate that I acquired is a 15.5X20" 1/2" steel.  I know it is on the small side but that was all that I could find in the scrap pile at work.  I might be able to snag a 3/8" that is 18X22" but in the meantime that is all I have.  I know I need to get a larger plate to make larger pizzas because I do plan on selling pizza by the slice.  I ordered a 18X18" peel online last weekend and it should arrive any day now, but in the meantime I am just using a cheap pizza stone as a peel.  My wife picked me up a bag of KABF to try out your recipe.  I hope the bread flour will produce a better crust.
   I made a second round of 2 pizzas on Tuesday and they turned out a little better than the first try.  I still used KAAP (prior to my wife picking up the KABF) so I lowered the hydration to 60%, added more salt (2%) and more IDY (.4%), and also adjusted EVOO to 1.5%.  I also made a proper sauce with a can of Contadina San Marzano Style crushed tomatoes with added fresh garlic, fresh basil, fresh oregano, and a little added sugar.  I used whole milk mozzarella (although I couldn't find any low moisture whole milk).
   The first pizza I was very proud of my stretching as you can see by the picture turned out perfectly round.  It was delicious but the crust was on the tougher side.  The second pizza was not a good stretch and the underside even showed a fold around the entire perimeter.  The pizza was way too thick around the crust and too thin in the middle.  I also put too much sauce on the pizza and the toppings bubbled outward and some of the sauce spilled over the sides
    I will try your recipe this weekend with the KABF and soybean oil.  I am having a great time learning how to make pizzas so thanks again to everyone for your help and suggestions!

Offline Surffisher2A

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 74
  • Location: Wilmington, NC
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: First Attempt Lehmann's NY Style Pizza. Advice/ Suggestions please
« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2013, 08:56:39 AM »
If I were in your shoes, I would narrow down the toppings until you find yourself a good base to add to. I made the same mistakes when I was first learning pizza skills. As soon as I went basic, dough, sauce and cheese my pizza's got better very quickly. Once you find the proper balance between your oven and your base pizza you can experiment with toppings.