Author Topic: New to pizza making and I might be in a bit of a predicament.  (Read 9329 times)

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Offline PizzaGuy209

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Re: New to pizza making and I might be in a bit of a predicament.
« Reply #50 on: November 24, 2013, 08:23:35 PM »
Also thought I'd share how they store the dough... They just stretch the pizzas a day before and throw it in the freezer...not covering anything....


Offline waltertore

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Re: New to pizza making and I might be in a bit of a predicament.
« Reply #51 on: November 24, 2013, 08:36:06 PM »
Again my hat is off to you for your enthusiasim and I mean no offense but to be honest you are working in a very low quality shop.  If your dough is bad going into the stretch it will never come out right.  If you check the first video I posted you will see Paige stretching an a 20 oz dough ball onto a 20" peel.  What size are the refrigerated pie skins in the cooler and what weight are they?  The cooler set up you are using reminds me of what I see here in central OH.  Doughs sit for days like this in the fridge and when taken out to use are dried out, and were not right to begin with.  On you finished pizza pictures is the bottom burnt?  The ovens you are using are sub par and will be hard pressed to turn out a steady flow of good pies.  I guess as long as you are enjoying what you are doing working at this place is ok for now.  Walter

here I am prepping a pizza- a 20 oz ball onto a 20" peel.  I prefer to hand toss but if the dough is loose, the hand stretch wins out and if it is inbetween I will give it both methods.

« Last Edit: November 24, 2013, 08:46:29 PM by waltertore »

Offline PizzaGuy209

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Re: New to pizza making and I might be in a bit of a predicament.
« Reply #52 on: November 24, 2013, 08:49:14 PM »
Again my hat is off to you for your enthusiasim and I mean no offense but to be honest you are working in a very low quality shop.  If your dough is bad going into the stretch it will never come out right.  If you check the first video I posted you will see Paige stretching an a 20 oz dough ball onto a 20" peel.  What size are the refrigerated pie skins in the cooler and what weight are they?  The cooler set up you are using reminds me of what I see here in central OH doughs sit for days like this in the fridge and when taken out to use are dried out, and were not right to begin with.  On you finished pizza pictures is the bottom burnt?  The ovens you are using are sub par and will be hard pressed to turn out a steady flow of good pies.  I guess as long as you are enjoying what you are doing working at this place is ok for now.  Walter

here I am prepping a pizza.  I prefer to hand toss but if the dough is loose, the hand stretch wins out and if it is inbetween I will give it both methods.



The dough I made was scotts recipe, came out great, tastes great. I'm starting to think the other guy unknowingly turns off the fridge when he shuts down all the lights from the power box... Might explain why my dough comes out looking like the hulk... They barely put yeast, sugar, salt, and oil in their batch and they're opening up their pizzas with no problem. Theirs isn't retracting like mine does. I feel sabotaged

Yes, the bottom of my pizza was burnt only on the crust line. Paige is a boss. Super talented. I suck at stretching and balling.

I've never worked with pizza before and now that I've met all you people and i'm learning more, I love it...

I can tell they don't care about it. If it cooks well and looks decent, they're happy...

I was talking to the manager and as we were arguing about the dough, I told him mine will taste better and he said "I don't care how it tastes" and I lost my %$#... I yelled back  "HOW DO YOU NOT CARE HOW IT TASTES? THIS IS A RESTAURANT" and he shut up... I cannot believe he said that. I told him Im not working here with them and I'll just work on the facebook page for him and w/e else he needs for menus or stuff like that, he can call me. I'm just going to run his page and take pictures for the business.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2013, 08:53:12 PM by PizzaGuy209 »

Offline waltertore

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Re: New to pizza making and I might be in a bit of a predicament.
« Reply #53 on: November 24, 2013, 09:09:41 PM »
Paige is a boss. Super talented. I suck at stretching and balling.

I've never worked with pizza before and now that I've met all you people and i'm learning more, I love it...


I taught and continue to teach Paige via intensive 1:1 training the way I was taught.  She has a natural ability and desire to learn.  If you are going to try to learn this on your own in a commercial setting with a product like your place now has you will probably end up quiting before you get your skills(which seems what has already happened as I re read your last post).  Find a skilled pizza maker. It can be home baker or pro in a shop.  IMO there is too much touch/feel involved in all aspects of the process to ever learn it quickly via the net(or ever really learn it right).   I am almost 60 and raised before all this internet stuff. It has its good points but IMO for stuff like making pizza one has to seek out a great pizza maker and imerse themself in the world.  I got lucky being born in Essex County NJ to a mother from Italy whose family was in the pizza/bakery business in Italy and on and off in the USA.

Make small batches of dough at home and practice getting it right.  A good dough should ball easily, end up baby butt smooth, ferment without bubbling, and after 2-3 hours out of the fridge should be ready to go.  It should be of even thickness all the way to the crust line which is a bit thicker.  The thin spots on your dough can be due to the dough overfermented and or your process of stretching.  An uneven dough with thin spots like that will lead to uneven cooking and skin tears which will make a mess of your stone.  Again I mean no distrespect but getting proper in the flesh training is the traditional way and by far still the best way to learn.  Even if there are no openings at good shops (if there are any in your town) you can often watch pies being made.  If they ask why you are watching so much tell them the truth- you want to become a great pizza maker and would they hire you.  Persistance will win out everytime!  Walter
« Last Edit: November 24, 2013, 09:16:31 PM by waltertore »

Offline PizzaGuy209

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Re: New to pizza making and I might be in a bit of a predicament.
« Reply #54 on: November 24, 2013, 09:15:25 PM »
I taught and continue to teach Paige via intensive 1:1 training the way I was taught.  She has a natural ability and desire to learn.  If you are going to try to learn this on your own in a commercial setting with a product like your place now has you will probably end up quiting before you get your skills(which seems what has already happened as I re read your last post).  Find a skilled pizza maker. It can be home baker or pro in a shop.  IMO there is too much touch/feel involved in all aspects of the process to learn it quickly via the net.   Make small batches of dough at home and practice getting it right.  A good dough should ball easily, end up baby butt smooth, ferment without bubbling, and after 2-3 hours out of the fridge should be ready to go.  It should be of even thickness all the way to the crust line which is a bit thicker.  The thin spots on your dough can be due to the dough overfermented and or your process of stretching.  An uneven dough with thin spots like that will lead to uneven cooking and skin tears which will make a mess of your stone.  Again I mean no distrespect but getting proper in the flesh training is the traditional way and by far still the best way to learn.  Even if there are no openings at good shops (if there are any in your town) you can often watch pies being made.  If they ask why you are watching so much tell them the truth- you want to become a great pizza maker and would they hire you.  Persistance will win out everytime!  Walter

I took the  batch I made from Scotts recipe home... I'm not going to let them touch it. I have 6 dough balls sitting in a container in my fridge. Im going to practice stretching these tomorrow afternoon. I also got a new recipe I might try here at home, i took 5 lbs of high gluten flour home. I'm looking for stores that sell maybe 1-5 lb bags of IDY. I'm going to be looking for small pizza shops around here too.

Offline waltertore

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Re: New to pizza making and I might be in a bit of a predicament.
« Reply #55 on: November 24, 2013, 09:21:37 PM »
I took the  batch I made from Scotts recipe home... I'm not going to let them touch it. I have 6 dough balls sitting in a container in my fridge. Im going to practice stretching these tomorrow afternoon. I also got a new recipe I might try here at home, i took 5 lbs of high gluten flour home. I'm looking for stores that sell maybe 1-5 lb bags of IDY. I'm going to be looking for small pizza shops around here too.


good for you!  If you are going to start working at home make sure your fridge temp is steady.  Do you have cash/carry there?  I think it got renamed smart and final since I left 7 years ago.  I bought my stuff there.  They have power flour and IDY yeast cheap.  Try and get in Restaraunt Depot with your current shop.  They have everything you need including GM Full Strength flour. I am off to bed.  Busy day tomorrow.  I look forward to seeing your results.  Walter

https://www.smartfoodservice.com/locations/CA/
« Last Edit: November 24, 2013, 09:25:53 PM by waltertore »

Offline PizzaGuy209

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Re: New to pizza making and I might be in a bit of a predicament.
« Reply #56 on: November 24, 2013, 09:26:43 PM »
My uncle actually owns a bakery. I'm thinking about asking him if I could practice there. He has a conveyor belt oven and a better mixer. I'll buy the ingredients and all that..He loves making pizza too, even though his focus is regular bread.

I shared some of the ingredients you guys gave me for pizza dough and he liked them.

I'm sure if I asked him if we could go after they close and try a few pizzas, he'd be happy to join me and make a few of his own.


One thing that scott mentioned, and I agree with him 100% is, I need to understand the recipes and what each one does to the dough. I think once I do that I can play around to make the perfect batch.

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: New to pizza making and I might be in a bit of a predicament.
« Reply #57 on: November 24, 2013, 10:02:51 PM »
One thing that's very clear from your pics in Reply #49 is that your dough has been allowed to rise before being rounded into a dough ball (or the dough has been re-rounded after being stretched, or something like that). That is, the dough has clearly been agitated more than once. That needs to not happen with dough for NY style. NY style dough needs to be scaled and rounded immediately after mixing, then immediately placed in the cooler. Nothing should be done to the dough until it's stretched and baked.

Also, the dough boxes that I believe Scott linked to are way deeper than what you need. The boxes on the linked page are like 6" deep; the ones you need are about 3" deep. The right ones are surely considerably cheaper than the deep ones, but I think they're still around $20 each.
Ryan
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Disclaimer: Don't necessarily believe anything I say here. My brain ain't quite right anymore (unless it is). If I come off as rude or argumentative, that's probably not my intention. Rather, that's just me being honest, to myself and everyone else; partly because I don't have enough time left to BS either you or myself. If you are offended by anything I say, it's probably because you think lying to people (to be "polite") is a good idea. I don't.

Offline PizzaGuy209

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Re: New to pizza making and I might be in a bit of a predicament.
« Reply #58 on: November 24, 2013, 10:10:26 PM »
One thing that's very clear from your pics in Reply #49 is that your dough has been allowed to rise before being rounded into a dough ball (or the dough has been re-rounded after being stretched, or something like that). That is, the dough has clearly been agitated more than once. That needs to not happen with dough for NY style. NY style dough needs to be scaled and rounded immediately after mixing, then immediately placed in the cooler. Nothing should be done to the dough until it's stretched and baked.

Also, the dough boxes that I believe Scott linked to are way deeper than what you need. The boxes on the linked page are like 6" deep; the ones you need are about 3" deep. The right ones are surely considerably cheaper than the deep ones, but I think they're still around $20 each.

after I took it out of the mixer I kneaded the whole thing for maybe 3 minutes. Folding and pressing over and over, then i cut, balled, and set in a container. Maybe it's because I'm super slow at balling? I can't seem to do it right.


Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: New to pizza making and I might be in a bit of a predicament.
« Reply #59 on: November 24, 2013, 10:16:21 PM »
Also, that mixer appears to be really old. I think it's actually pretty cool. I've never even seen a mixer like that. I'm surprised no one else has said anything about it.
Ryan
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Disclaimer: Don't necessarily believe anything I say here. My brain ain't quite right anymore (unless it is). If I come off as rude or argumentative, that's probably not my intention. Rather, that's just me being honest, to myself and everyone else; partly because I don't have enough time left to BS either you or myself. If you are offended by anything I say, it's probably because you think lying to people (to be "polite") is a good idea. I don't.

scott123

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Re: New to pizza making and I might be in a bit of a predicament.
« Reply #60 on: November 24, 2013, 10:23:51 PM »
Also, the dough boxes that I believe Scott linked to are way deeper than what you need. The boxes on the linked page are like 6" deep; the ones you need are about 3" deep. The right ones are surely considerably cheaper than the deep ones, but I think they're still around $20 each.

Great catch, Ryan.  I googled 'dough boxes' and just pulled the first that came up, I wasn't aware that they came in different depths.  6" is way too deep.

BJ, for someone starting out on their pizza career, your pizza is way better than I expected. Dial in the yeast and stretch about a hundred pies and you'll be on your way. Btw, a good stretching exercise is to take a throwaway ball of dough and stretch it as far as you can possibly stretch it, fixing any holes that arise.  That's a great way to get a feel of how far you can take it.

One thing to be aware of, the Hobart mixes AND kneads the dough.  Stick it in the Hobart on the lowest setting until it's just past a cottage cheese appearance, then dump it out and start weighing it into portions.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2013, 10:26:52 PM by scott123 »

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Re: New to pizza making and I might be in a bit of a predicament.
« Reply #61 on: November 24, 2013, 10:26:16 PM »
Also, that mixer appears to be really old. I think it's actually pretty cool. I've never even seen a mixer like that. I'm surprised no one else has said anything about it.

These ancient Hobarts are actually pretty common in pizzerias.  I think if it were a brand new Hobart, people would react more, since those are so rare.

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: New to pizza making and I might be in a bit of a predicament.
« Reply #62 on: November 24, 2013, 10:27:19 PM »
after I took it out of the mixer I kneaded the whole thing for maybe 3 minutes. Folding and pressing over and over, then i cut, balled, and set in a container. Maybe it's because I'm super slow at balling? I can't seem to do it right.

That's probably what it is. I think you should just take the dough out of the mixer bowl and start scaling right away. Once you've scaled all the dough pieces, you can give each piece of dough a few kneads to begin the rounding process. It might not seem like such a change will affect the dough much differently than how you're currently doing it, but I think it will make a noticeable difference.

I agree with Scott. Even though it may seem like I was being a little critical, I think you're doing great.
Ryan
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Disclaimer: Don't necessarily believe anything I say here. My brain ain't quite right anymore (unless it is). If I come off as rude or argumentative, that's probably not my intention. Rather, that's just me being honest, to myself and everyone else; partly because I don't have enough time left to BS either you or myself. If you are offended by anything I say, it's probably because you think lying to people (to be "polite") is a good idea. I don't.

Offline PizzaGuy209

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Re: New to pizza making and I might be in a bit of a predicament.
« Reply #63 on: November 24, 2013, 10:36:18 PM »
I'm talking to my uncle about ovens and stuff.

He's saying if he had a shop, he'd use a conveyor belt and a sheeter.

If I owned a shop, I'd want a brick oven and hand stretch all the dough.

That's just because the way I like it seems to be more traditional? But what do I know, His way is for when your business is really busy.

What do you guys think? Brick oven + hand stretch vs conveyor oven + sheeter?
« Last Edit: November 24, 2013, 10:39:08 PM by PizzaGuy209 »

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: New to pizza making and I might be in a bit of a predicament.
« Reply #64 on: November 24, 2013, 10:41:23 PM »
I like all kinds of pizza. I like hand-stretched pizza. I like pizza that's formed in a pan (like deep dish). I like certain kinds of sheeted dough, too.

Conveyor ovens are evil. They're for cheap pizza that requires no skills. Conveyor ovens are glorified hair dryers.
Ryan
http://www.ryanspizzablog.blogspot.com

Disclaimer: Don't necessarily believe anything I say here. My brain ain't quite right anymore (unless it is). If I come off as rude or argumentative, that's probably not my intention. Rather, that's just me being honest, to myself and everyone else; partly because I don't have enough time left to BS either you or myself. If you are offended by anything I say, it's probably because you think lying to people (to be "polite") is a good idea. I don't.

Offline PizzaGuy209

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Re: New to pizza making and I might be in a bit of a predicament.
« Reply #65 on: November 24, 2013, 10:45:24 PM »
I just like traditional ovens...but if conveyors work though...why not? As long as it does a good job?.

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Re: New to pizza making and I might be in a bit of a predicament.
« Reply #66 on: November 24, 2013, 11:08:52 PM »
BJ, you should really make a drive into San Francisco and sample a few pizzas there.  There's a few solid NY style places and a handful of Neapolitan pizzerias.  Both Ryan and I are very anti-chain, along with most of the forum, but if, after tasting some good NY style and good Neapolitan pies, you prefer chain (conveyor), then follow your bliss. But truly world class NY style pies (the style you made today), can't be made on a conveyor, regardless of what some people on this forum might say.

And a sheeter doesn't really do NY style justice either- although it's a valuable component to other styles.


Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: New to pizza making and I might be in a bit of a predicament.
« Reply #67 on: November 24, 2013, 11:20:48 PM »
You can make decent pizza with a conveyor oven, but you can't make a true NY style pizza with a conveyor oven. (There are a few people who would dispute that statement, but I'm not gonna argue with anyone about it. If anyone chooses to dispute my statement, I'll let Scott argue for me.)

In a pizzeria setting, I want my customers to see us work the ovens, whether I'm selling NY style, deep dish, stuffed, cracker, or any other pizza style. That's worth money right there. Besides, deck ovens make better pizza, which is also worth money if you do things right. Conveyor ovens may have been cool and fascinating in 1980, but now they're the norm and ovens without moving parts are once again fascinating to pizza consumers.

There's a whole new pizza market just because people are fascinated by wood-fired ovens. There's probably not more than a couple handfuls of pizzeria owners in this country who actually know how to use their beautiful wood-fired ovens, but they're selling lotsa pizza anyway just because pizza consumers are fascinated by the concept of wood-fired ovens.
Ryan
http://www.ryanspizzablog.blogspot.com

Disclaimer: Don't necessarily believe anything I say here. My brain ain't quite right anymore (unless it is). If I come off as rude or argumentative, that's probably not my intention. Rather, that's just me being honest, to myself and everyone else; partly because I don't have enough time left to BS either you or myself. If you are offended by anything I say, it's probably because you think lying to people (to be "polite") is a good idea. I don't.

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: New to pizza making and I might be in a bit of a predicament.
« Reply #68 on: November 24, 2013, 11:23:21 PM »
And a sheeter doesn't really do NY style justice either- although it's a valuable component to other styles.

I hope I didn't imply that I think it's OK to use a sheeter for NY style. I need a sheeter very badly, but certainly not for NY style. I need a sheeter for laminated cracker style, which is a serious workout with a rolling pin.
Ryan
http://www.ryanspizzablog.blogspot.com

Disclaimer: Don't necessarily believe anything I say here. My brain ain't quite right anymore (unless it is). If I come off as rude or argumentative, that's probably not my intention. Rather, that's just me being honest, to myself and everyone else; partly because I don't have enough time left to BS either you or myself. If you are offended by anything I say, it's probably because you think lying to people (to be "polite") is a good idea. I don't.

scott123

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Re: New to pizza making and I might be in a bit of a predicament.
« Reply #69 on: November 24, 2013, 11:30:50 PM »
I hope I didn't imply that I think it's OK to use a sheeter for NY style.

I didn't take it that way, Ryan, I was just conveying to BJ the importance of looking at equipment from a style centric perspective.

Offline PizzaGuy209

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Re: New to pizza making and I might be in a bit of a predicament.
« Reply #70 on: November 24, 2013, 11:32:22 PM »
Oh I prefer brick ovens over conveyor ovens 100%

I was just thinking if I did go into business with my uncle, he'd want conveyor and sheeter.

scott123

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Re: New to pizza making and I might be in a bit of a predicament.
« Reply #71 on: November 24, 2013, 11:35:54 PM »
I was just thinking if I did go into business with my uncle, he'd want conveyor and sheeter.

BJ, you have an abundance of short sighted people in your life  ;D

Master the pizza at home, bring him a slice, blow his mind, and, when he says "we have to sell this," calmly explain that it can't be made in a conveyor.

Offline PizzaGuy209

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Re: New to pizza making and I might be in a bit of a predicament.
« Reply #72 on: November 24, 2013, 11:41:12 PM »
BJ, you have an abundance of short sighted people in your life  ;D

Master the pizza at home, bring him a slice, blow his mind, and, when he says "we have to sell this," calmly explain that it can't be made in a conveyor.

I agree. It sucks man. He's been making bread since the 90's! Maybe he loves the conveyor so much because he gets very large amounts of orders. Specifically pita bread.  He knows his ingredients, but idk about pizza equipment.

scott123

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Re: New to pizza making and I might be in a bit of a predicament.
« Reply #73 on: November 25, 2013, 01:17:35 AM »
I agree. It sucks man. He's been making bread since the 90's! Maybe he loves the conveyor so much because he gets very large amounts of orders. Specifically pita bread.  He knows his ingredients, but idk about pizza equipment.

Well if you think he might be able to offer you a job... in this economic climate, you might want to take it.  I typically shun all things conveyor, so I probably won't be able to help you much, but this forum has a few notable members who swear by them. To get the most out of the conveyor, I don't think you'll be making authentic NY style pizza, but I'm sure you can make better pizza than the chains, and be quite profitable.

Offline PizzaGuy209

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Re: New to pizza making and I might be in a bit of a predicament.
« Reply #74 on: November 25, 2013, 02:36:03 AM »
Man, I freaking love you all.

I think I may have found a new passion... Im thinking about pizza 24/7 lol...

I hope to learn and hopefully one day I'll be on here teaching newbies like you all taught me! (I'm a super newbie still  :chef: )