Author Topic: NY Pizza, Tasmanian-Style  (Read 2036 times)

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Offline arspistorica

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NY Pizza, Tasmanian-Style
« on: November 21, 2013, 10:37:22 AM »
Thought I'd share a recent Margherita. (The tray featured is 13" / 33 cm for size comparison.)

Notes:

Baked in a four-deck electric Moffat Artisan in approximately 4m.

The dough's naturally-leavened and made with a flour milled at approximately a 92% extraction-rate with just under 11.5% protein.  Final hydration was nearly 75%.

Finished with two local products, a cool-climate EVOO and a 28-month-old gruyere-style cheese made from organic cow's milk.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2013, 10:42:24 AM by arspistorica »
"Senza il mio territorio sarei solo un panificatore."
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Offline dylandylan

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Re: NY Pizza, Tasmanian-Style
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2013, 01:42:28 PM »
that's plenty of hydration!  looks great.  Out of interest what are you using for tomatoes and mozzarella?    do you have access to anything fresh and local in Tasmania?

Offline arspistorica

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Re: NY Pizza, Tasmanian-Style
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2013, 03:10:09 PM »
that's plenty of hydration!  looks great.  Out of interest what are you using for tomatoes and mozzarella?    do you have access to anything fresh and local in Tasmania?

Fresh and local, yes!  That's a big part of my ethos, and one of the reasons I have chosen to settle in Tasmania. (Sourcing is the most important part of what I do.) Mozzarella is house-cultured and -made from local milk, while the tomatoes are a combination of some local and some imported.  This year I hope to received a bigger crop than last of chemical- and pesticide-free soil-grown tomatoes than last year, enough to supply me throughout the whole year (tomatoes are only really good here for three to five weeks out of the year, IMO), and more heirlooms as well. 
"Senza il mio territorio sarei solo un panificatore."
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Offline dylandylan

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Re: NY Pizza, Tasmanian-Style
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2013, 04:35:42 PM »
Great to hear.   I can relate to local tomatoes being a scaricity as far south as you are.  I'm a little further south than you, and while tomatoes can certainly be grown down here I think all my local commercial growers are indoor.  It seems that good vine-ripened fruit comes from warmer climes.

Offline stonecutter

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Re: NY Pizza, Tasmanian-Style
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2013, 05:33:44 PM »
The pies look nice!

Is that basil on there?....I think so, but the shape of the leaves don't look like it to me.  Did you add it after because you prefer it that way? 
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Offline arspistorica

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Re: NY Pizza, Tasmanian-Style
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2013, 12:31:26 AM »
Great to hear.   I can relate to local tomatoes being a scaricity as far south as you are.  I'm a little further south than you, and while tomatoes can certainly be grown down here I think all my local commercial growers are indoor.  It seems that good vine-ripened fruit comes from warmer climes.

Yeah, saw you were from Dunedin.  Have a bunch of Kiwi mates from there.  (Unrelated side note:  One of my citizenships is NZ, as my father's side of the family is from the north island; I have yet to go yet, ironically.  Your pies look good; maybe a reason to visit one day!)  Most of the growers here are similarly indoors and hydroponic (mmm, no flavour); I only moved to the north of the state from Hobart less than a year ago but have worked with one of two hydro- guys here beginning from last summer and received their first lot of soil-grown tomatoes last year.  They were terrific.  Hopefully I can get a larger amount this summer.

You're also lucky because NZ olive oils are the best I've ever seen outside of Spain!

The pies look nice!

Is that basil on there?....I think so, but the shape of the leaves don't look like it to me.  Did you add it after because you prefer it that way? 

Thanks!  Yes, basil.  I normally top my pies with four to five kinds of basil but the bakery's new and it's been a cold spring.  I will start five kinds of basil from seed out back very soon.  At the moment I am just keeping live basil indoors, similar to Dom Demarco.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2013, 01:49:08 AM by arspistorica »
"Senza il mio territorio sarei solo un panificatore."
                                  -Franco Pepe

Offline arspistorica

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Re: NY Pizza, Tasmanian-Style
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2013, 05:01:12 PM »
Some more recent pies to help represent the "down under" crowd!
"Senza il mio territorio sarei solo un panificatore."
                                  -Franco Pepe

Offline arspistorica

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Re: NY Pizza, Tasmanian-Style
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2013, 05:07:29 PM »
...
"Senza il mio territorio sarei solo un panificatore."
                                  -Franco Pepe

Offline stonecutter

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Re: NY Pizza, Tasmanian-Style
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2013, 06:46:01 PM »
It may be time to put in a WFO now!
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When we build, let us think that we build for ever.
John Ruskin

Offline arspistorica

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Re: NY Pizza, Tasmanian-Style
« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2013, 07:08:05 PM »
It may be time to put in a WFO now!

Yes, that's one of my ongoing goals!  Unfortunately, there are so many others that also have to be met, as I don't just do pizza, including getting a new, larger geitreidemühlen; a new 20-litre cake mixer; a new batch freezer; a new water filter; etc.
"Senza il mio territorio sarei solo un panificatore."
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Offline dylandylan

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Re: NY Pizza, Tasmanian-Style
« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2013, 07:31:42 PM »
That white/green pie looks especially nice.  Love the salad look before it hits the oven.

Offline stonecutter

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Re: NY Pizza, Tasmanian-Style
« Reply #11 on: November 23, 2013, 08:08:01 PM »
..... as I don't just do pizza....

Big time understatement...the bread pics you posted are great.   
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When we build, let us think that we build for ever.
John Ruskin

Offline Johnny the Gent

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Re: NY Pizza, Tasmanian-Style
« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2013, 05:37:53 AM »
High hydration and fast bake time (~ 4 min), I will try this out. Your crusts rock. Please share your dough recipe/w.flow , if possible.
Il miglior fabbro

Offline arspistorica

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Re: NY Pizza, Tasmanian-Style
« Reply #13 on: December 14, 2013, 02:37:15 PM »
Apiece pasta della pizza, Nuovo Yorkese

Maintenance starter

100% whole wheat flour, freshly milled
65% water
8% starter, maintenance, previously refreshed 10 - 12h prior

FDT.  30°C

Method.  Let ferment for 10 to 12h, until tripled in volume.  Dough is ready to use when in its late exponential phase.

Dough starter

100% flour, "tan"
60% water
20% starter, maintenance, from above

FDT.  28° - 30°C

Method.  Let ferment for 8 to 10h, until tripled in volume.  Dough is ready to use when in its late exponential phase.

Final dough

100% flour, "tan"
76% water
24.75% starter, dough, from above
3.22% sea salt, Murray River

FDT.  26° - 30°C

Method.

Combine flour, water and starter just until a shaggy dough is achieved and every particle of flour is hydrated.  Leave to ferment for 45m.

Add salt.

If mixing by hand, use the pincer method to cut salt into dough.  Remove dough onto bench and slap and fold the dough 4 or 5 times.  Use the pincer method to break the proteins in the down, followed by 4 to 5 more slap-and-folds on the bench surface.  Lightly water the bottom of a bowl and add dough to back to the bowl.

If using a mixer (not necessary for batch sizes under 5-kg of flour), mix on 1st speed just until salt is dissolved, approximately 5m.

Let ferment in bulk for 2h 15m, with 2 to 3 folds using slightly moistened fingertips.

Divide and shape into rounds.  Dough balls can be retarded, in shape, for up to 18h, or allowed to proof at room temperature for at least 3 - 4h.


Notes

Our "tan" flour is a custom roller-milled wheat flour with approximately 11.5% protein and a 90% extraction rate.  The protein composition of the wheat makes it similar to a French spring wheat flour for rheological and fermentative purposes; North American flours of the same protein content and extraction rate hold more water and exhibit much greater fermentation tolerance.

The no-salt "rest" period does not create the same characteristics of a true dough en autolysis, despite the claims of various "expert" sources.  Rather, it allows for uninhibited growth of the culture, especially at optimal dough temperatures, generating a flavour profile I prefer as well as shaving time off of the overall fermentation.  We mix most of our bread doughs in a similar manner.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2013, 07:56:23 PM by arspistorica »
"Senza il mio territorio sarei solo un panificatore."
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Offline Johnny the Gent

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Re: NY Pizza, Tasmanian-Style
« Reply #14 on: December 14, 2013, 03:31:33 PM »
Thanks arspistorica for sharing your Nuovo Yorkese dough formula!  For the ~ 13" pizzas you made, what is the dougball weight?
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Offline arspistorica

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Re: NY Pizza, Tasmanian-Style
« Reply #15 on: December 14, 2013, 07:50:57 PM »
Thanks arspistorica for sharing your Nuovo Yorkese dough formula!  For the ~ 13" pizzas you made, what is the dougball weight?

370 grams.
"Senza il mio territorio sarei solo un panificatore."
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Offline Johnny the Gent

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Re: NY Pizza, Tasmanian-Style
« Reply #16 on: December 15, 2013, 11:28:55 AM »
Thanks. I tried out a 74% hydration dough today, but with CY. Next time SD.
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Offline arspistorica

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Re: NY Pizza, Tasmanian-Style
« Reply #17 on: December 15, 2013, 01:33:09 PM »
Thanks. I tried out a 74% hydration dough today, but with CY. Next time SD.

How was it?  Looked great.  Pies like this -- Great Lake, Delancey, etc. -- are closer to my preferred style; I look at what I do as an Italian trying to make a New York pie that looks and feels Italian.

For a great co-fermented dough in this style try .3% fresh yeast and natural starter with 9 - 10% of the total flour prefermented.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2013, 01:36:51 PM by arspistorica »
"Senza il mio territorio sarei solo un panificatore."
                                  -Franco Pepe

Offline Johnny the Gent

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Re: NY Pizza, Tasmanian-Style
« Reply #18 on: December 15, 2013, 05:53:13 PM »
How was it?  Looked great.  Pies like this -- Great Lake,Delancey, etc. -- are closer to my preferred style; I look at what I do as an Italian trying to make a New York pie that looks and feels Italian.

For a great co-fermented dough in this style try .3% fresh yeast and natural starter with 9 - 10% of the total flour prefermented.

I thought that margherita came out nice. I enjoy working with high hydration doughs, and this was no different. What I particularly enjoyed was how the cornicione takes on a beautiful shape. The crust center was thin and crisp, but the outer rim was puffy and thick with a nice chew. My wife and I ate it fast!

After making a couple minor adjustments to my oven I baked two marinaras. The local veggie stand had some ripe tomatoes, so I used some fresh pulp along with just a little of Mutti tomatoes. D.ball weights: 250 and 320 gms. Bake time for each: ~ 2:15-2:30.
Il miglior fabbro

Online mitchjg

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Re: NY Pizza, Tasmanian-Style
« Reply #19 on: December 15, 2013, 08:12:29 PM »
How was it?  Looked great.  Pies like this -- Great Lake, Delancey, etc. -- are closer to my preferred style; I look at what I do as an Italian trying to make a New York pie that looks and feels Italian.

For a great co-fermented dough in this style try .3% fresh yeast and natural starter with 9 - 10% of the total flour prefermented.

arspistorica:

I wonder if you can expand on this tip of using 0.3% fresh yeast combined with 9-10% natural starter.  I believe I have read that when you combine commercial yeast with natural starter, the commercial yeast will "take over" in the fermentation process and overpower any fermentation driven by the natural starter.

Is that correct? incorrect?  Is the combination for flavor only? , etc.

Also, given the two are present, how would I rethink the timing of the dough.  Would it be ready sooner?


Thanks in advance,
Mitch