Author Topic: My 1st attempt at NP-ish  (Read 3339 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline f.montoya

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 329
  • Age: 46
  • Location: Land of the Rising Sun
Re: My 1st attempt at NP-ish
« Reply #20 on: November 29, 2013, 01:58:49 AM »
Looks great! A whole lot better than my first attempt. Or second, or third...

Or my fourth, or fifth, or sixth...

Wow!!! Awesome looking pies!!!


Offline mbrulato

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 895
  • Location: NJ
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: My 1st attempt at NP-ish
« Reply #21 on: November 29, 2013, 08:03:24 AM »
Or my fourth, or fifth, or sixth...

Wow!!! Awesome looking pies!!!

Thank you!  Round 2 is tonight  :)
Mary Ann

Offline TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 12689
  • Location: Houston, TX
Re: My 1st attempt at NP-ish
« Reply #22 on: November 29, 2013, 08:37:09 AM »
How do you type that?

I don't know if you can enter it directly here. You can cut and paste it though.
Pizza is not bread.

Offline mbrulato

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 895
  • Location: NJ
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: My 1st attempt at NP-ish
« Reply #23 on: November 29, 2013, 10:06:04 AM »
Mary Ann

Offline JD

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1117
  • Location: NE Mississippi, but NY born & raised
Re: My 1st attempt at NP-ish
« Reply #24 on: November 29, 2013, 11:54:59 AM »
Ĩ thank you  :-D

You don't exist anymore either? ???
Josh

Offline mbrulato

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 895
  • Location: NJ
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: My 1st attempt at NP-ish
« Reply #25 on: November 29, 2013, 11:57:23 AM »
We still exist, but Ischia, apparently does not  >:D
Mary Ann

Offline TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 12689
  • Location: Houston, TX
Re: My 1st attempt at NP-ish
« Reply #26 on: November 29, 2013, 01:21:10 PM »
Ĩ has no pronunciation. Its literal meaning is "The Culture Formerly Known as Ischia."  ;D
Pizza is not bread.

Offline mbrulato

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 895
  • Location: NJ
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: My 1st attempt at NP-ish
« Reply #27 on: November 29, 2013, 05:01:38 PM »
I bulk fermented at 65-66F for 29 hours due to Thanksgiving schedule and then balled and continued basement fermentation until 4:30pm.  Total approximate fermentation using 1.5% starter is 50 hours.  According to Craig's chart, if I'm going to continue the same amount of fermentation time, I should drop down the starter % to 1.  Or maybe less than 1%???

See picture below of my highly fermented dough  :-\
« Last Edit: November 30, 2013, 10:20:12 AM by mbrulato »
Mary Ann

Offline deb415611

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 962
  • Location: CT
Re: My 1st attempt at NP-ish
« Reply #28 on: November 29, 2013, 05:32:42 PM »
I have pizza going too.   I need to go shopping for Christmas containers 8)

Offline mbrulato

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 895
  • Location: NJ
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: My 1st attempt at NP-ish
« Reply #29 on: November 29, 2013, 07:22:47 PM »
I think I got these at Target, Deb  8)
Mary Ann


Offline deb415611

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 962
  • Location: CT
Re: My 1st attempt at NP-ish
« Reply #30 on: November 29, 2013, 07:46:08 PM »
I think I got these at Target, Deb  8)

thanks!

Offline mbrulato

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 895
  • Location: NJ
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: My 1st attempt at NP-ish
« Reply #31 on: November 29, 2013, 11:53:34 PM »
Thank you!  Round 2 is tonight  :)

Didn't take any pictures of the pies.  Tasted same as last week but didn't look so good.  Definitely need to dial back my Ĩ % and fermentation time.  Dough looks blown before I even get it out of the container  :'(. Need more practice....
Mary Ann

Offline mbrulato

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 895
  • Location: NJ
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: My 1st attempt at NP-ish
« Reply #32 on: January 04, 2014, 09:50:12 AM »
If your intent is to take this in a more Craig-ish direction, then I think you might need to dial back the starter a bit, so that you don't have to refrigerate it.  Where are you at on your dough ball size? Are you matching his weight and final diameter?

Since Neapolitan is typically smaller than NY pies, and smaller pies are easier to launch, I think you'll be okay with the higher shelf.

It will be interesting to see what kind of top color you can achieve on the top shelf.

As far as bottom leoparding goes, if that's your goal, even with the plate on the top shelf, I don't think you're going to achieve it.  We've talked before about aluminum. If, when you move the plate up, you see high contrast leoparding on the top, I think you should reconsider aluminum.

Another way to take a set up that isn't quite geared towards Neapolitan bake times and push it over the top is to fudge it a bit with a malted flour such as KABF. Since you're so close to a 2 minute bake, you might want to play around with a malted flour.

'Gum line' can mean different things to different people. Some people use 'gum line' to describe the point where the dough meets the sauce (a kind of nubby tender cooked pasta appearance). I use gum line to describe a raw line of dough running down the center of the crust.  If you experienced the latter, it's most likely because 1:15 wasn't long enough for the dough to warm up. Once you dial in the necessary starter quantity to hit your fermentation time, you won't have to refrigerate and the gum line issue should be resolved.

Nice work!

Scott,

A couple questions.  The first is, if I don't refrigerate the dough and dial back the starter, how long do you recommend that I bring dough to RT before the bake?  And will this jeopardize the leoparding aspect?  I read somewhere on this forum that leoparding may be a result of baking with colder dough.  Will this cure my gum line?

Second question is, you suggested using a malted flour to fudge the color a bit.  Since I have the best bakers flour, I have not purchased any KABF.  Should I use a combo of best bakers and Caputo?

I'm going to give this style another try this week.  I appreciate your feedback.

Thanks,
Mary Ann

Offline bbqchuck

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 381
  • Location: SoCal
Re: My 1st attempt at NP-ish
« Reply #33 on: January 04, 2014, 10:38:58 AM »
MaryAnn
I read somwhere on the forum that brushing some EVOO on the opened dough before saucing will prevent gummy formation.  I think it was Tom Lehman that posted it.  I've been using that tip ever since and it seems to work well.  If you don't like EVOO, I'm sure any oil will do the same.

Offline scott123

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 6966
Re: My 1st attempt at NP-ish
« Reply #34 on: January 04, 2014, 02:47:59 PM »
Scott,

A couple questions.  The first is, if I don't refrigerate the dough and dial back the starter, how long do you recommend that I bring dough to RT before the bake?  And will this jeopardize the leoparding aspect?  I read somewhere on this forum that leoparding may be a result of baking with colder dough.  Will this cure my gum line?

Second question is, you suggested using a malted flour to fudge the color a bit.  Since I have the best bakers flour, I have not purchased any KABF.  Should I use a combo of best bakers and Caputo?

I'm going to give this style another try this week.  I appreciate your feedback.

Thanks,


Mary Ann, regarding tempering, here's what Craig does:

9) Put it in a container and let it ferment in bulk for 24 hours at ~65F. Ideally, you will see virtually no rise after 24 hours. You should maybe start to see some tiny little bubbles forming. This is how I do my bulk ferment: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,18509.msg179991.html#msg179991
10) Ball the dough (make them tight without tearing the skin) and let ferment another 20-24 hours. I use lightly oiled individual Rubbermaid tubs. I use 250g balls for a 13Ē pizza. If you want a very large cornice, use 275g.

Dough trays are fine too but a little touchier as the balls will come together and will need to be cut apart and lifted out with a scraper. With the lightly oiled tubs, the dough ball just rolls right out onto your flour pile. Start the ball fermentation at ~65F in the same set-up you use for your bulk. After 12 hours, youíll have to pay attention to what is going on and either keep it at 65F or let it warm as high as 78F or so to get the balls ready when you want them ready.

After doing it a couple times, you get a handle on how changes in temperature affect activity. It can be quite variable. Sometime I need to keep the balls at 65F for almost the entire time. Sometimes the last 10 hours or so may be 78F. Ideally, at least the last couple hours will be at 78F or so. You get a little better oven rise performance when the dough is warmer (though leoparding may be better when the dough is cooler).  More times than not, I end up keeping my dough balls at 65F or so for about 18 hours and then bring them up to 78F for the final 4+ hours. If you want a temperature between 65F and 78F, open the door of the cooler but leave the ice block in there. If you really need to slow things down, stick the balls in the fridge for 15-20 minutes or so. You may have to do this several times. Donít go longer. You really donít want the dough to get too cold especially if it is close to the time you want to bake it.


If I were doing it, for the first time, I'd probably go 65F for the bulk and balled ferment, and then 4 hours at 78F prior to baking.  I would, obviously, watch it closely and tweak it depending on how the dough is developing.

Warmer dough should definitely resolve your gum line issue, although it wouldn't be bad to hedge your bets by stretching your dough a bit further, as well as looking at your stretch technique to make sure it isn't too aggressive/slappy.

Regarding the flour, Scott R has talked, in the past, about bromate doing weird things with really fast bakes. You want the malt, but I wouldn't recommend bromate for this application. The last thing you're going to want to do is buy more flour, but, if you want to get a bit more Neapolitan looking results at those temps, you're going to need to invest in KABF.

Offline mbrulato

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 895
  • Location: NJ
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: My 1st attempt at NP-ish
« Reply #35 on: January 05, 2014, 12:37:23 AM »
Thank you, Scott.  Would you blend KABF with the Caputo or just use it 100%?
Mary Ann

Offline scott123

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 6966
Re: My 1st attempt at NP-ish
« Reply #36 on: January 06, 2014, 12:28:17 AM »
100%. Save the Caputo for when you buy your Blackstone  >:D

Offline TXCraig1

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 12689
  • Location: Houston, TX
Re: My 1st attempt at NP-ish
« Reply #37 on: January 06, 2014, 11:44:36 AM »
You might experiment with KAAP as well. I prefer it to KABF for NP-ish.
Pizza is not bread.

Offline mbrulato

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 895
  • Location: NJ
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: My 1st attempt at NP-ish
« Reply #38 on: January 06, 2014, 12:23:11 PM »
Thanks to both of you for your feedback.  Feeding my Ĩ right now and will post my results later this week.
Mary Ann

Offline mbrulato

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 895
  • Location: NJ
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: My 1st attempt at NP-ish
« Reply #39 on: January 07, 2014, 03:43:26 PM »
Here's my 3rd attempt at NP-ish.  The changes I made this time were as follows:

1.  I used KAAP flour as that is the only other flour I had on hand besides Best Bakers, Caputo pizzeria and semolina.
2.  I brought dough up to RT 70 degrees for 4 hours before bakes.
3.  Did a 24 hour dough instead of a 48 hour.

Observations:

1. Bakes were closer to the 3 minute mark versus almost 4 minutes because I let the dough sit out longer than the first two times.
2. No more gum line because of #1.
3. Goofy dough shapes because I put all 5 balls in the same dough tray.  Next time I need to use both trays or make less pizza  >:D
4. Less Ischia taste because it was a 24 hour dough.
5. Some of my corniciones were fatter than others.  Need to be more consistent to get a more NP-ish looking cornicione.

I made 5 12 inch pizzas all using Cento Organic San Marzano tomatoes with just sea salt added (blended with an immersion blender):

1. Halved red and yellow salad tomatoes with smoked fresh mozzarella.  Fresh basil and EVOO post bake.
2. & 4.  Margherita with fresh cow's milk mozzarella.  Fresh basil and EVOO post bake.
3. Half shiitake mushroom and half pepperoni with aged WM LM mozzarella.
5. Plain cheese with WM LM mozzarella (F&A)  Scott, I got a close up of the F&A melt just for you  ;D  It's the last picture of the second post.

Please make any suggestions on what I can do to improve.  TIA.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2014, 07:33:55 PM by mbrulato »
Mary Ann