Author Topic: Article on Starters (Sourdough) by Didier Rosada  (Read 1400 times)

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Offline Pete-zza

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Article on Starters (Sourdough) by Didier Rosada
« on: January 02, 2015, 10:21:37 AM »
Some time ago, Norma found and cited an article on preferments by Didier Rosada, at http://www.bakerconnection.com/artisanbaker/article_04.htm. As I was perusing the article this morning, I found that there were links to many other topics, as shown by the thumbnail photos at the top of the page. Clicking on one of those photos (the third one from the left) led me to an article by Didier Rosada on starter (sourdough) cultures, at http://www.bakerconnection.com/artisanbaker/article_02.htm. I do not recall seeing the article before on the forum but in my opinion anything that Didier Rosada writes is worth reading, especially in this case by members who are just getting started with natural leavening cultures.

Peter

Offline carl333

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Re: Article on Starters (Sourdough) by Didier Rosada
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2015, 01:19:15 PM »
Some time ago, Norma found and cited an article on preferments by Didier Rosada, at http://www.bakerconnection.com/artisanbaker/article_04.htm. As I was perusing the article this morning, I found that there were links to many other topics, as shown by the thumbnail photos at the top of the page. Clicking on one of those photos (the third one from the left) led me to an article by Didier Rosada on starter (sourdough) cultures, at http://www.bakerconnection.com/artisanbaker/article_02.htm. I do not recall seeing the article before on the forum but in my opinion anything that Didier Rosada writes is worth reading, especially in this case by members who are just getting started with natural leavening cultures.

Peter

TY Peter. I'm learning very slowly how to incorporate a starter in a dough. I just looked at Steve's predicted fermentation table a few moments ago. A couple of rookie questions come to mind which I'll surely find answers somewhere in this forum. How does one quantify the hydration level of their starter and how do you know how active your starter really is (if that's possible) If its very active do you use less  starter than the recipe calls for and if it not very active, do you use more? I'm starting to learn that I am adding more variables to my dough making as opposed to closing in on a bullet proof,easy to use, consistant results dough recipe.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2015, 02:57:08 PM by carl333 »
Carl

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Article on Starters (Sourdough) by Didier Rosada
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2015, 03:04:55 PM »
Carl,

Did you mean to say Craig's predicted fermentation table rather than Steve's?

The answers to your two questions come mainly from experience and personal preferences. Different types of dough can call for different hydration values for the starters. Also, as you noted, the degree of activity of the starter is also a variable. Different starters have different DNAs so to speak, and you have to play around with them until you achieve the results you are looking for. Because mastering the use of natural starters is not an easy thing, I usually try to discourage new members from experimenting with them until they have mastered the principles that apply to doughs that are leavened with commercial yeast.

Peter

Offline jsaras

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Re: Article on Starters (Sourdough) by Didier Rosada
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2015, 03:39:59 PM »
You determine the hydration of the starter in the same manner that you do for pizza dough.  Some, like Craig, don't measure their feedings at all.  Others keep their starters at 100% hydration (equal parts water and flour). 

I like mine at 80% hydration (which translates to 44.4% water when entered in to preferment dough calculator) because my starters seems to do better when they get more "food" than liquid. 

Feeding regimens also vary.  I've been successful with keeping 50 grams and then adding 100 grams of flour and 80 grams of water. 
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Offline carl333

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Re: Article on Starters (Sourdough) by Didier Rosada
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2015, 07:03:00 AM »
Carl,

Did you mean to say Craig's predicted fermentation table rather than Steve's?

The answers to your two questions come mainly from experience and personal preferences. Different types of dough can call for different hydration values for the starters. Also, as you noted, the degree of activity of the starter is also a variable. Different starters have different DNAs so to speak, and you have to play around with them until you achieve the results you are looking for. Because mastering the use of natural starters is not an easy thing, I usually try to discourage new members from experimenting with them until they have mastered the principles that apply to doughs that are leavened with commercial yeast.

Peter

Opps, my error Peter, Craigs table indeed and certainly do appreciate your comments. I got a 10 lb. bag of flour to waste and just may try a bit of experimenting. I have little or no expectations on my several 1st attempts. 
Carl

Offline texmex

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Re: Article on Starters (Sourdough) by Didier Rosada
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2016, 03:04:19 PM »
More great info on starters....gracias, Peter. It seems we need a sticky of starter maintenance articles but will anybody read them?  :P       
I had not read this one by DIDIER ROSADA :  http://www.bakerconnection.com/artisanbaker/article_02.htm
Reesa

Offline minn

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Re: Article on Starters (Sourdough) by Didier Rosada
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2016, 09:04:03 PM »
Hi,the sourdough starter thing, too many information on how to activate/reactivate them, is there any article talking about the validation of the culture being used? as I experienced a difficulty to assure what be activated is the true version of the culture, mine is Ischia ordered from Dr.Ed, unfortunately I could not get any response from him to validate the Ischia I activated is the true Ischia.

Why I have such a doubt?
1. the flavor is not obvious in the pizza crust
2. it is not obvious even in the dough, I am expecting a pleasant and very obvious alcoholic smell, but, I could not identify
3. somewhere I read, the local yeast contained in the flour may over-power the Ischia culture, eventually, the local yeast takes the place. so, I am wondering if my Ischia was killed during fermentation by local yeast

I never had experience with Ischia, or any other Italian wild yeast. this leads me again to a situation I am not confident with what I get from the Ischia activation till the final product of my pizza

can any one help shed some light ?


Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Article on Starters (Sourdough) by Didier Rosada
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2016, 08:19:54 AM »
1. If you don't have any experience with the Ischia culture, how do you know the flavor isn't obvious in the crust? I'm my experience, it doesn't produce a strong acidic/sour taste. It is very subtle, almost undetectable, acidity which is what I want in Neapolitan pizza. Notwithstanding, it's produces a very full, rich flavor that is significantly different from a crust made with baker's yeast.

2. If you are looking for a stronger "alcoholic" smell, I'd suggest using baker's yeast instead of a natural culture. That's what commercial yeast does.

3. This has been discussed here several times with very strong opinions on both sides. The discussions don't tend to end well. I'd suggest you read the posts and come to your own conclusion rather than rehash it again here.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
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