Author Topic: Ischia starter and pH tests  (Read 3270 times)

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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Ischia starter and pH tests
« Reply #20 on: November 27, 2013, 05:36:08 PM »
Ya'll need to stop this before I have to go out and by a pH probe for my data logger...
Pizza is not bread.


Offline norma427

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Re: Ischia starter and pH tests
« Reply #21 on: November 27, 2013, 08:51:51 PM »
That makes sense, but I can guarantee they are not exposing things to UV after they start fermenting.

I believe you Craig.  I sure don't know much about brewing.  Maybe that is why they place beer in darker colored bottles so it is protected from UV.

I'm a bit surprised by the range of bottled water pH.

http://phconnection.com/Bottled_Water_pH_List.html

That link to bottle water and their pH numbers also surprised me.  Thanks for posting the link!

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Ischia starter and pH tests
« Reply #22 on: November 27, 2013, 08:58:08 PM »
Norma,


I use my pH meter for cheesemaking, but this thread got me wondering about the pH of my Ischia:

Bill,

Thanks for posting the pH of your Ischia starter.  Is it very active?  Do you know what the pH number is of the water you feed your starter?

I just took the pH of my Ischia starter.  This is a photo of the pH number.  I think I still have a way to go until mine is active enough to use.  I did not have time to feed it this afternoon but might try feeding it 3 times tomorrow if I find time.  I did use the bottled water to feed my culture this morning. 

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Ischia starter and pH tests
« Reply #23 on: November 27, 2013, 09:01:34 PM »
Ya'll need to stop this before I have to go out and by a pH probe for my data logger...

Craig,

 :-D  You already know when you starter is active enough to use. 

I am just trying to find out if water, flour, how many feeding or anything else makes a difference in how long it takes my inactive starter to become active enough to use.

Norma
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Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: Ischia starter and pH tests
« Reply #24 on: November 28, 2013, 03:19:11 PM »

Thanks for posting the pH of your Ischia starter.  Is it very active?  Do you know what the pH number is of the water you feed your starter?



Very active before being placed in refrigerator. pH reading above was taken shortly after being removed from the refrigerator. The pH of the bottled water I have been using is 7.6.

Offline norma427

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Re: Ischia starter and pH tests
« Reply #25 on: November 28, 2013, 03:32:50 PM »

Very active before being placed in refrigerator. pH reading above was taken shortly after being removed from the refrigerator. The pH of the bottled water I have been using is 7.6.

Thanks Bill!

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Ischia starter and pH tests
« Reply #26 on: November 29, 2013, 07:20:30 AM »
I fed the Ischia culture 3 more times since yesterday morning.  The smell of the culture is getting nicer, but the pH number don't make a lot of sense.  The culture sure is not active enough to use either.  I am not sure if the cooler temperatures in the house are somewhat responsible for the starter being sluggish.   

I had been feeding the Ischia culture KAAP, but changed to Shurfine AP one time and when I did that the pH number fell.  I then fed the culture KABF.  I think I am going to change the flour to the organic Daisy flour http://daisyflour.com/annville-mill/mill-history.html  for the next feeding to see what happens.  Ian posted at Reply 6  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,28687.msg289930.html#msg289930 that a better flour might help.  I guess I will see what happens.

At least for me this time the culture seems to take longer for it to be active enough to be able to be used.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Ischia starter and pH tests
« Reply #27 on: November 29, 2013, 10:53:10 PM »
After one feeding of the Daisy organic bread flour and about 7 hrs. later there is not much difference in the pH number.  I fed the culture again with the same flour.

Norma
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Offline JD

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Re: Ischia starter and pH tests
« Reply #28 on: November 30, 2013, 08:47:45 AM »
What is your feeding process Norma?

Josh

Offline norma427

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Re: Ischia starter and pH tests
« Reply #29 on: November 30, 2013, 10:15:42 AM »
What is your feeding process Norma?

Josh,

Do you mean how many times I feed a day, or do you mean how much flour and water I am feeding after the discard?

If you mean how many times I feed a day, I was feeding two times a day and now I am feeding three times a day.  I really don't know why this time my starter culture is not active enough to use after all the feedings I gave the culture.

I just changed over to Daisy whole wheat pastry flour this morning to see what happens.  The Ischia starter smells okay, but not like it usually does after so many feedings.  Maybe someone with similar experiences can help me understand what is going on, or what I might be doing wrong.

Norma
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Offline JD

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Re: Ischia starter and pH tests
« Reply #30 on: November 30, 2013, 10:25:00 AM »
Thanks Norma.

I was curious if you discarded half your starter and refreshed with equal amounts of flour and water, or if you start with one tablespoon of old starter and continued to double your feedings until fully active. I'm curious how the pH would compare between these two scenarios.
Josh

Offline norma427

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Re: Ischia starter and pH tests
« Reply #31 on: November 30, 2013, 11:12:19 AM »
Thanks Norma.

I was curious if you discarded half your starter and refreshed with equal amounts of flour and water, or if you start with one tablespoon of old starter and continued to double your feedings until fully active. I'm curious how the pH would compare between these two scenarios.

Josh,

I don't measure how much of the starter I discard, but do try to take out the same amount for the discard.  I guess I should weigh the discard though.  I just feed 100g of flour and 100g of water each time.

Maybe in time I will try what you posted.

I might even be doing everything wrong.

Edit:  I don't know where my mind was but I only feed 50g of flour and 50g water.  :-[

Norma
« Last Edit: November 30, 2013, 02:10:36 PM by norma427 »
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Offline norma427

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Re: Ischia starter and pH tests
« Reply #32 on: December 01, 2013, 07:43:43 AM »
Athough the Ischia culture in my opinion is active enough to be used to leaven pizza dough or bread there is something different about the Ischia starter this time at least for me.  Maybe I don't understand what is going on, but it does not have the same smell.  The smell is good but not like it is normally is when it is active enough to be used. 

I did feed the culture Daisy whole wheat pastry flour one time and it seemed to make it more active, but am not sure it that was just from more feedings or the flour.  I have been feeding with KAAP again for the last day and there were 3 feedings again.  I changed the amount of discard to more and added less water and flour in grams for the last feeding. 

The first 3 photos are of the pH numbers from a day and the 4th photo right after feeding this morning.

As can be seen my pH numbers from the Ischia culture are still not up to where Bill's were when he posted his pH value at Reply 16 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,28766.msg289821.html#msg289821 

Can anyone tell me what I might change to get my culture back on track?  I don't think I will ever be able to fully understand starters.   :-\

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Ischia starter and pH tests
« Reply #33 on: December 03, 2013, 06:31:03 AM »
I have not posted more pH numbers for the Ischia culture but have taking the pH numbers 3 times a day.  The number has never gone to 4.00, except right after a feeding.  This is the pH number for this morning after it was fed before I went to sleep last evening.  The amount of water and flour for the feedings has gone down in weight but I am still feeding with KAAP and have been discarding more. 

I am going to try and get a small amount of the Ischia culture from another member and see if something might be wrong with my Ischia culture, or if maybe my Ischia culture has always had about the same pH number when it was ready to be used.  My Ischia culture still does not have the same smell it used to have when it was active enough to be used, although the smell is okay. 

I was going to make a dough with the Ischia culture for today, but am waiting until I find out more about my Ischia culture.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Ischia starter and pH tests
« Reply #34 on: December 03, 2013, 10:20:43 PM »
Steve brought me some of his Ischia culture today to see what his pH was.  His Ischia culture has been in the refrigerator for two weeks.  He fed his starter this morning before he came to market.  These photos were taken this afternoon of the pH number and what his Ischia starter looks like.  His Ischia starter has a different smell than mine has but his pH number is somewhat in line with what mine were after I fed the Ischia starter different times.  His Ischia starter smells like mine used to.  I gave Steve his Ischia starter when he wanted to start using a culture so I don't know why my smell of my Ischia starter has changed.  ???

Norma 
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Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: Ischia starter and pH tests
« Reply #35 on: December 04, 2013, 05:53:48 PM »
Norma,


Have I missed a post in this thread where you have tried baking with this starter? Perhaps the results might be different, but they might also be better. I'd avoid conflating pH and smell. The proof will be in the pizza.


BTW, my French starter was activated this weekend - it produces the sweetest, least acid tasting of all my starters. It's pH was ~4.8 which is pretty close to the Ischia.

Offline norma427

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Re: Ischia starter and pH tests
« Reply #36 on: December 04, 2013, 10:22:04 PM »
Norma,


Have I missed a post in this thread where you have tried baking with this starter? Perhaps the results might be different, but they might also be better. I'd avoid conflating pH and smell. The proof will be in the pizza.


BTW, my French starter was activated this weekend - it produces the sweetest, least acid tasting of all my starters. It's pH was ~4.8 which is pretty close to the Ischia.

Bill,

No, you did not miss a post in this thread of me trying to bake with the original Ischia culture I started with in this thread.  I had wanted to make a dough for this past Tuesday, or one to bake in my Blackstone unit but have been dealing with my mother going into assisted living in a retirement community and that takes up more of my time right now.  The weather in our area right now is beautiful and I would love to try a starter dough in the Blackstone unit but I think it will have to wait a little while longer.  Thanks for telling me the proof will be in the final pizza.

Thanks also for telling me your French starter was activated this weekend and it produces the sweetest, least acid tasting of all of your starters.  Thanks for telling me the pH number too.  I wonder why your pH numbers are a lot different than mine.  Do you think the environment where a starter is fed changes the pH or smell?  Steve and I were talking about that yesterday and since I can explain why my Ischia starter smells different than his when they both started from the same sourdough starter.  Steve's Ischia starter is sweeter smelling than mine.

Am anxious to see what you bake up with your French starter.  ;D

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Ischia starter and pH tests
« Reply #37 on: December 05, 2013, 08:45:48 AM »
The Ischia starter that Steve gave me is smelling better all the time.  I really can't explain how it smells but it is somewhat sweet, earthy and somewhat fruity in smell.  It is just a more pleasant smell than my Ischia starter.  The photos of that starter are the ones in the glass jar.  My Ishcia starter is still not smelling the best but is okay.  I discarded more of my Ischia starter last evening and fed it more than the discard.  It is not as active as it was this morning.  I guess I will have to use less discard in the next feeding.

The Ischia starter is more complex than I though before these pH tests.  I normally just took my Ischia starter out of the fridge and fed until it was active enough to use.  Steve feeds his Ischia starter Ceresota flour.  I am curious if I would feed my starter with the Ceresota flour if my starter would change smells.  I don't have any Ceresota flour right now but might purchase some the next time I get to the supermarket. 

So far I don't think the pH numbers I have been taking are of much help. 

I should have smelled Craig's Ischia culture when I was at his Pizza Summit II but did not think about doing that.  I did watch Scot and Craig make dough with his Ischia starter.  There is no way I could make pizzas like Craig can with his beautiful oven but it would have been fun to smell his Ischia starter.  >:D :-D

Norma
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Online Pete-zza

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Re: Ischia starter and pH tests
« Reply #38 on: December 05, 2013, 10:16:28 AM »
...it would have been fun to smell his Ischia starter.
Norma,

Whatever floats your boat.  :-D

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: Ischia starter and pH tests
« Reply #39 on: December 05, 2013, 10:36:50 AM »
Norma,

Whatever floats your boat.  :-D

Peter

Peter,

It might have floated my boat to smell Craig's Ishcia starter.   :-D  I wonder if Craig could describe how it smells to me since I did not smell it while I was at Craig's home.  To me the smell of things is a powerful.  Maybe I am weird that way.    :-\

Norma
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