Author Topic: Ischia starter and pH tests  (Read 2615 times)

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Online norma427

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Re: Ischia starter and pH tests
« Reply #40 on: December 06, 2013, 05:36:32 AM »
I sure don't know what is wrong (or if anything really is wrong  ???) with the Ischia culture I started with in this thread.  The smell was still off and getting worse each day even though I have been feeding it at least two times a day and sometimes multiple times each day.  I did purchase some Ceresota flour.  I have now changed the Ischia starter to a glass container from a plastic container.  The plastic container was a cheaper one than I do not normally use for the Ischia starter or for my dough balls.  I have no idea if the plastic container was causing the Ischia starter to smell off though.  My Ischia starter is on the left in the 3rd photo and Steve's Ischia starter is on the right in the same photo.  After the feeding of my Ischia starter with KAAP last evening it is smelling a little bit better until this morning.  I fed Steve's Ischia starter with the Ceresota flour that I purchased yesterday.

Steve's Ischia culture was the one that the pH was taken before feeding it the Ceresota flour. 

Norma 
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Re: Ischia starter and pH tests
« Reply #41 on: December 06, 2013, 08:15:51 PM »
I know members might think what I have to say could be weird.  :-D  I fed Steve's and my Ischia culture around lunchtime today.  Tonight both Ischia starters are starting to smell more like each other and both are about as active as each other.  They aren't far off in smell like they were before.

I wonder is the cheap plastic container I used had something to do with the off smell of the Ischia culture I started with on this thread and maybe was why I had problems with getting the starter to be acitve enough to be able to be used.  Before I placed my Ischia starter in the glass container is was starting to smell almost like vomit  :-X, or maybe not quite that bad.  Usually if I did use a plastic container to keep the Ischia starter in it was a Rubbermaid plastic container.  I wonder if any other members have had the same problems that I did with the Ischia starter in this thread.

The first photo is of my Ischia starter.  The second photo is of Steve's Ischia starter.  The third photo is of the pH of my Ischia starter and the fourth photo is of the pH of Steve's Ischia starter.

Norma
« Last Edit: December 06, 2013, 08:19:11 PM by norma427 »
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Re: Ischia starter and pH tests
« Reply #42 on: December 08, 2013, 07:39:37 AM »
I did not feed the two Ischia starters yesterday morning.  Both Ischia starters have been fed at least two times a day. When I went to smell and feed the two starters last evening their definitely was a sour smell to both of the starters.  The smell was not unpleasant but I think if I would have used either of the starters there probably would have been a more pronounced taste of sourdough in the crust of a pizza or bread.

The 3 photos were taken after the starters were feed and they sat for about an hour.  My Ischia starter in the first photo is on the left and Steve's Ischia starter is on the right.  My starter pH number is in the second photo and Steve's pH number is in the third photo.  Steve's pH number is still a little different than mine but I don't think that really matters.

After all the feedings I gave the Ischia starters my pH numbers still are not up to Bill's pH number he posted for his Ischia starter.

Norma
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Re: Ischia starter and pH tests
« Reply #43 on: December 09, 2013, 09:04:04 AM »
I decided to make a sourdough with my Ischia starter since I have not been able to change the pH numbers much with more feedings.  The dough was mixed last evening.  I used the preferment dough calculating tool to come up with the formulation using two Daisy Organic Flours.  The process can be seen in the photos.  The hydration is 80% and Grape Seed oil was used as the oil.  The mixing method was with the paddle only in my Kitchen Aid mixer and there was a gradual addition of flour after the initial adding the main part of the flour.  The sourdough was rested for 25 minutes after the mixing was done the first time and then it was mixed again until the dough pulled away from the sides of the mixer bowl.  There also were three sets of stretch and folds to make the sourdough less sticky.  The pH number of the dough after the first stretch and fold can been seen in the one photo.  The sourdough is being controlled temperature fermented.  It can be seen what the dough ball looks like this morning.

I had planned to try the Ischia starter dough tomorrow at market but am not sure if I can now.  It did snow yesterday and we had freezing rain overnight.  Tomorrow it is supposed to snow again so right now I am not sure if I am going to market.  If I don't go to market I will probably bake at home.  If I do bake at home I am not sure if I want to divide the sourdough and ball some of it.

If there are any questions just ask.

Norma
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Online norma427

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Re: Ischia starter and pH tests
« Reply #44 on: December 09, 2013, 09:05:40 AM »
Norma
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Re: Ischia starter and pH tests
« Reply #45 on: December 09, 2013, 09:24:55 AM »
Thank you for posting your results Norma. A few months ago I had similar troubles getting my Ischia re-started. It was very sluggish for 2-3 weeks and then finally took off. I'm curious if PH has anything to do with it, and will continue to follow this thread.
Josh

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Re: Ischia starter and pH tests
« Reply #46 on: December 09, 2013, 11:02:56 AM »
Thank you for posting your results Norma. A few months ago I had similar troubles getting my Ischia re-started. It was very sluggish for 2-3 weeks and then finally took off. I'm curious if PH has anything to do with it, and will continue to follow this thread.

Josh,

I also had problems before getting my Ischia starter re-started.  I sure don't know what is up with that when some members don't seem to have that problem.  I still can not figure out if it might have been the plastic container I stored the Ischia starter in the fridge or not.  Steve (Ev) told me he had a similar problem awhile ago when he forgot to feed his Ischia starter sitting out at room temperature for just one day.  He said that Ischia starter never did smell the same after that after many feedings.  I guess that is why it is a good idea to dry some Ischia starter when it is right in everyway.  Steve does have a Ischia starter in his fridge now that has the same gray juice I had on my Ischia starter in the beginning of this thread.  He was going to bring it over to market tomorrow for me to take the pH number but I am not sure if I am going to market tomorrow.  That might have to wait for another week or I might have to let a part of my Ischia starter in the fridge again for awhile.

When I activate Mmmph's Cape Fear dried starter I will also take pH numbers to see if they are different.

The one problem is it is harder to use my Blackstone unit this time of the year for starter doughs.

Norma
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Re: Ischia starter and pH tests
« Reply #47 on: December 09, 2013, 06:47:47 PM »
This is what the sourdough dough ball looked like this afternoon.  It really does not look like a dough ball anymore though.  There are a few tiny bubbles on the top of the dough ball and also some small bubbles on the bottom of the dough ball.  The temperature of the controlled temperature Styrofoam box can be seen.  The pH of the sourdough this evening about 6:00 PM also can be seen.

I am not going to market tomorrow because it is supposed to snow in our area from 3-5 inches starting around 7:00 AM tomorrow morning.  I was going to use the sourdough to make a pan pizza.  The size of the pan I was going to use was 10x14.  I am not sure of what to try now.

What do other members think I should do?  Bake in the 10x14 pan in my home oven or divide the sourdough ball and bake in an 8x10 steel pan and maybe try some of the dough in my Blackstone unit if it does not snow too much.

Norma
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Re: Ischia starter and pH tests
« Reply #48 on: December 09, 2013, 06:53:58 PM »
This is what the sourdough dough ball looked like this afternoon.  It really does not look like a dough ball anymore though.  There are a few tiny bubbles on the top of the dough ball and also some small bubbles on the bottom of the dough ball.  The temperature of the controlled temperature Styrofoam box can be seen.  The pH of the sourdough this evening about 6:00 PM also can be seen.

I am not going to market tomorrow because it is supposed to snow in our area from 3-5 inches starting around 7:00 AM tomorrow morning.  I was going to use the sourdough to make a pan pizza.  The size of the pan I was going to use was 10x14.  I am not sure of what to try now.

What do other members think I should do?  Bake in the 10x14 pan in my home oven or divide the sourdough ball and bake in an 8x10 steel pan and maybe try some of the dough in my Blackstone unit if it does not snow too much.

Norma

Norma,

I vote for the pan pizza.  Please share a picture of your decision.

Mary Ann
Mary Ann

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Re: Ischia starter and pH tests
« Reply #49 on: December 09, 2013, 06:58:32 PM »
Norma,

I vote for the pan pizza.  Please share a picture of your decision.

Mary Ann

Thanks for your vote Mary Ann.  ;)  I will share photos.

Norma
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Re: Ischia starter and pH tests
« Reply #50 on: December 09, 2013, 08:57:17 PM »
Does anyone know how much my sourdough should weigh if I wanted to keep the same TF as I posted at Rely 43 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,28766.msg291436.html#msg291436  and used my 8x10 steel pan instead of the 10x14 steel pan I had planned to use?

Norma
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Re: Ischia starter and pH tests
« Reply #51 on: December 09, 2013, 09:37:46 PM »
Does anyone know how much my sourdough should weigh if I wanted to keep the same TF as I posted at Rely 43 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,28766.msg291436.html#msg291436  and used my 8x10 steel pan instead of the 10x14 steel pan I had planned to use?

Norma,

It's (8 x 10)/(10 x 14) x 503.57 grams = 287.75 grams, or 10.15 ounces.

For a cross check, you can use whatever dough calculating tool you used and enter the 8" x 10" pan size.

Peter

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Re: Ischia starter and pH tests
« Reply #52 on: December 09, 2013, 10:03:44 PM »
Norma,

It's (8 x 10)/(10 x 14) x 503.57 grams = 287.75 grams, or 10.15 ounces.

For a cross check, you can use whatever dough calculating tool you used and enter the 8" x 10" pan size.

Peter

Peter,

Thank you for doing the calculation for a 8"x10" pan.  I thought I was going to make a thinner crust than the Detroit style pizzas I make but guess that is not the case unless I don't let the dough temper in the steel pan.

Norma
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Re: Ischia starter and pH tests
« Reply #53 on: December 10, 2013, 08:56:06 AM »
I did divide the sourdough into two pieces last evening.  I am glad I did because the sourdough really felt slack.  I had thought I had developed the sourdough enough with the methods I used for mixing and with the three sets of stretch and folds, but I really don't think the sourdough was developed enough after feeling it.

The one piece of sourdough was scaled to 9.5 ounce and then balled.  The other sourdough piece was 254 grams and was also balled.  The dough balls looked plump after balling but this morning they do not look plump at all.  The Ischia starter is fermenting the dough balls nicely at controlled temperatures.  At least the dough is fermenting well in my opinion.

Snow in our area when I woke up too.

Norma
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Re: Ischia starter and pH tests
« Reply #54 on: December 10, 2013, 06:07:53 PM »
These are a few of the photos of the 80% Ischia starter pizza.  The sourdough pizza was made in my Blackstone unit.  If anyone is interested in the other photos they start at Reply 271 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,26483.msg291662.html#msg291662  The pH value of the sourdough ball before I opened it was 4.82. 

I am soon ready to put the other sourdough dough ball into a steel pan to temper some. 

Norma
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Re: Ischia starter and pH tests
« Reply #55 on: December 10, 2013, 07:48:20 PM »
Looks wonderful, Norma!  :drool:
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Re: Ischia starter and pH tests
« Reply #56 on: December 10, 2013, 08:45:08 PM »
Looks wonderful, Norma!  :drool:

Thanks Mary Ann!

Norma
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Re: Ischia starter and pH tests
« Reply #57 on: December 10, 2013, 08:49:58 PM »
The pan pizza made with the Ischia sourdough turned out good in my opinion.  It was different than the Detroit style pizzas I make though.  The dough was tempered in the steel pan with the oven light on for over an hour.  The sourdough pan pizza was baked at 476 degrees F on the second to the highest rack position on the pizza stone.

The crumb was light and there were a crunch on the bottom and side edges, but not the same as the Detroit style pizzas I make.  I used the same cheese as I normally do when I make Detroit style pizzas. 

The pH of this Ischia sourdough dough ball was 4.21 before it was placed in the steel pan. 

Norma
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Re: Ischia starter and pH tests
« Reply #58 on: December 10, 2013, 08:54:25 PM »
Norma
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Re: Ischia starter and pH tests
« Reply #59 on: December 11, 2013, 01:43:17 PM »
I left both Ischia starters go for a day without any feedings.  I did feed last evening.  Both of them have a very acidic smell as of this morning.  I will keep feeding two times a day until the smell gets less acidic and then place them into the fridge.  These were the pH numbers as of this morning.  My Ischia starter still has a lower pH value than Steve's does. 

I really don't think the pH number values tell a lot.  If anyone want me to keep taking them I will. 

I placed both Ischia starters into new containers this morning after taking the pH numbers.

Norma
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