Author Topic: iSicilian  (Read 2065 times)

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Offline mbrulato

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iSicilian
« on: December 05, 2013, 03:44:27 PM »
Since I have a very active starter, I felt like experimenting in the kitchen last night.  I made a Sicilian pizza for lunch today with my Ischia starter.  It was light, crunchy and just enough of a sourdough taste to make me happy but not enough to make the rest of my family not want to eat it  >:D  My 10 year old and I like the taste of SD, but my hubby and 2 other children do not.

100%    Flour (50/50 blend of Best Bakers and Caputo semola di grano duro rimacinata)
  80%    Water
  25%    Ischia
    3%    Sea salt
    2.6% Sicilian EVOO

Mix salt into water to dissolve.  Add Ischia and mix until frothy.  Then add the EVOO.  Add flour a little at a time until well incorporated while mixing at low speed with dough hook for about 5 minutes.  Let rest for 10 minutes in the bowl. The dough is very wet.

With a little EVOO on the counter and the help of my bench scraper, I did a series of 6 stretch and folds at 10 minute intervals.  I put the dough into a lightly oiled square Sicilian pizza pan, covered it with the pan lid and let it ferment in the basement at 65F.  Total fermentation time was 13 hours - 1 hour at 72F, 9 hours at 65F and 3 hours at 72F.  At the beginning of the final 3 hours, I punched the dough down and gently stretched it with my fingertips to fill the pan and put the lid back on until it was time to bake.

Preheated the oven to 500F.  Baked with sauce only for the first 15 minutes and then baked another 10 minutes to brown the cheese.  My new go-to Sicilian recipe  :drool:
« Last Edit: December 05, 2013, 09:43:22 PM by mbrulato »
Mary Ann


Offline Johnny the Gent

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Re: iSicilian
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2013, 03:53:58 PM »
Great looking sicilian pie. The addition of the semola di grano duro rimacinata imparts a nice flavor and texture, IMO. Very nice undercarriage browning as well as cheese browning topside- a very balanced bake!
Il miglior fabbro

Offline mbrulato

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Re: iSicilian
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2013, 03:55:13 PM »
Great looking sicilian pie. The addition of the semola di grano duro rimacinata imparts a nice flavor and texture, IMO. Very nice undercarriage browning as well as cheese browning topside- a very balanced bake!

Thanks, Johnny.  My Daddy would be proud  ;)
Mary Ann

Offline norma427

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Re: iSicilian
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2013, 05:43:19 PM »
Mary Ann,

Great job on your Sicilian!   :chef:  Your crumb looks fantastic!   :drool:

Norma
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Offline mbrulato

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Re: iSicilian
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2013, 07:57:43 PM »
Mary Ann,

Great job on your Sicilian!   :chef:  Your crumb looks fantastic!   :drool:

Norma

Thanks, Norma.
Mary Ann

Offline PizzaAlaJoey

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Re: iSicilian
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2013, 05:44:34 PM »
Bada Friggen Bing!

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: iSicilian
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2013, 06:00:28 PM »
Thanks for the workflo info Mary Ann....you rocked that pie girl, no bout a doubt it!  :chef:
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Offline mbrulato

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Re: iSicilian
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2013, 08:14:05 AM »
Bada Friggen Bing!

 :-D

Thanks for the workflo info Mary Ann....you rocked that pie girl, no bout a doubt it!  :chef:

Thanks, Bob.  I had a hankering for the flavor of this dough, so I made it and hopefully it will turn out some nice Italian bread today to go with meatballs and homemade ravioli  :chef:
Mary Ann

Offline mitchjg

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Re: iSicilian
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2014, 02:31:46 PM »
Hi Mary Ann:

This thread is little oldy, but very goldy.  I have a few questions.

The 25% starter is as a percent of the flour at 100%.  That means the flour in the starter is in addition to the recipe flour.  In other words

100 grams flour
25 grams starter (at 100% hydration, so 12.5 grams flour, 12.5 grams water)
80 grams water

equates to

112.5 grams Total Flour
92.5 grams Total Water
and the total hydration is 92.5/112.5 = 82.2% hydration

Right?

I am unclear about what happens after the stretch and folds.  When you put the dough in the lightly oiled pan, do  you stretch out to fit the pan at that point?  I see the next day you punched it down and stretched it to fit the pan but I do not know if you are doing this twice.  Or, is the dough just plopped onto the pan and allowed to ferment and grow overnight?

Hope that makes sense. 

The reason I ask, aside from the obvious, is I am thinking of trying it but, after the stretch and folds, just letting it sit in a bowl overnight.  Then, remove it from the bowl, pat it gently into a rectangle, put it in the pan.  Then, after a rest dimple and pat it to stretch into the pan.  Rest again and repeat as needed.  This is the way Reinhart makes focaccia and I have had a lot of success with it.

What do you think?

- Mitch

Offline mbrulato

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Re: iSicilian
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2014, 07:04:01 PM »
Mitch,

Yes your math is correct.  The flour in the starter is in addition to the flour in the recipe.  The amount of starter I used in this post, was based upon Craig's SD quantity prediction chart given the temperature in my basement that day.

I think what you are planning to do is fine by letting it rest in a bowl overnight and then stretch once it's in the pan, rest and repeat.  Most of the time, I let the Sicilian dough rest and finger stretch it to fit the pan before official fermentation begins.  I started doing it this way because once I did it on the back end (while tempering) and tore the dough and ended up with a soggy mess  :'( I tend to always want to touch the dough and mess with it and that gets me in trouble  >:D

I've only tried it with Ischia but think the flavor of Camaldoli would do nicely in this application.  What SD are you planning to use?

I hope that I've sufficiently answered your questions.  Please post some pictures.  I know you'll do well  ;)
Mary Ann


Offline mitchjg

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Re: iSicilian
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2014, 07:31:18 PM »
Thanks a lot for getting back to me, Mary Ann. 

Hah, when I did the math, I saw that it matched Craig's model - good going.

I will follow that plan.  I have never made this type of dough with sourdough but I have made it, as focaccia, many times with yeast.  I have found the method Reinhart prescribes bulletproof which is why I went there.

Your timing was great.  I made a mistake in my dough measuring and ended up with extreme pancake batter.  I started over and I am right in the middle of the stretch and folds.

I decided to use my home grown starter - it is very fast and lively.  I will let you know how it comes out.

Thanks again,
Mitch

Offline mitchjg

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Re: iSicilian
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2014, 10:14:27 PM »
Mary Ann:

You are the woman!!!!   :chef:

Thanks for the help - here is my report ;) 

I used 80% hydration with KABF.  I only used 2% starter planning on about 24 hours from start to finish at room temperature of about 70 degrees.  At about 17 hours or so, the dough had tripled (you can see the little poppy seeds in the first shot.  :P ).  I dumped it out in an oiled pan and then stretched it every 1/2 hour (4 times total although at 3 I was really done) to cover the whole pan.  So, that took a couple of hours.  The rise was about 3 1/2 hours.

I have been reading Tony Gemignani's book and took some cues from him on Sicilian pie.  The big item here was that I parbaked the pie with nothing at all on it for until it was a light blonde color.  I did not take a shot but you can see the par baked crust in the dressed / unbaked pie.  I then dressed the pie and baked it after letting the par baked crust sit on a cooling rack for a couple of hours.  He says to do this in order to get a nice crispy crust.  Further, he likes it for scheduling - you can have the crust waiting for as long as 10 hours before you bake.  Perfect idea for me when I have my guests over this weekend, so I wanted to try that out.

Loved it.  The crust was super airy and fluffy and the bottom was nice and crispy.  The only issue I had was that the crust was a bit stuck on the pan right in the middle after the par bake.  I either did not use enough oil or did not do a great enough job seasoning the pan.  I will use parchment paper next time to be safe.  Given it it baked twice, I am not worried about it being crispy enough.  I put the pan on a hot stone for the bake but forgot to do so for the par bake.  But, all was well.

I will have to obsess for a couple of days as to whether or to to use commercial yeast or starter for the weekend.  The only issue with the starter is the longer rise times.

Thanks again for sharing your approach and for your help.  My neighbors thank you too.  My wife just delivered several slices of the pie to them to enjoy.

- Mitch
« Last Edit: December 03, 2014, 10:29:25 PM by mitchjg »

Offline mbrulato

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Re: iSicilian
« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2014, 09:12:36 AM »
Wow Mitch.  You nailed it!  What a beautiful pie. The pictures are full of color, the crumb looks fantastic and now I'm hungry for Sicilian at breakfast  :drool:

Be careful with the parchment paper as you might encounter some condensation on the bottom.  You don't want a soggy-bottomed pizza.  It has happened to me.  But if you are parbaking then it shouldn't be an issue.

How did you like the flavor of the crust with your starter? Did it have a noticeable tang or just a little creamy difference that you don't get with commercial yeast?

BTW, you have some lucky neighbors  ;D

« Last Edit: December 04, 2014, 09:15:59 AM by mbrulato »
Mary Ann

Offline mitchjg

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Re: iSicilian
« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2014, 10:10:52 AM »
I think I will be ok with parchment paper because of the fact that I am parbaking.  I will not be using parchment paper for the final baking.  When I baked it this way yesterday (without the parchment but with a rest in between that was out of the pan), the bottom actually cooked faster/crisper than the top.  And, that was without the pan being on the stone for the parbake.   I will let you know if it works out poorly, etc.

The sourdough flavor was not very noticeable.  There was so much going on with the sauce and pepperoni that it made it hard to tell.  I did notice the sourdough about 30 minutes later - the aftertaste of the sourdough was there!  This is a reason I think I am using commercial yeast for Saturday.  The other reason is scheduling - the guests are coming over at 11 and I do not want to have "baker's hours" in order to do a 2 hour stretch and a 3 hour rise. 

My neighbors are good folks. 

Thanks for the help and encouragement.  :chef:

- Mitch

Offline mbrulato

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Re: iSicilian
« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2014, 10:18:42 AM »
Glad to help ;) Enjoy the visit with your family!

What cheese did you use on this pie?
Mary Ann

Offline mitchjg

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Re: iSicilian
« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2014, 10:22:36 AM »
Grande with some pecorino romano shavings on after the bake.  About 10 ounces cheese for my pan which is a Paderno that is about 10 X 15.  I could have put more on to make it "goopier" (like the technical term?). 

I used about 700 grams of dough which gave me a thickness factor of 0.15.  I have another pan coming today!  I will be spending time today seasoning the pan.  i hope I do a better job than the last one.  ::)

- Mitch
« Last Edit: December 04, 2014, 10:24:33 AM by mitchjg »

Offline mbrulato

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Re: iSicilian
« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2014, 01:26:09 PM »
"Goopier" should definitely be added to the glossary on the forum  :-D

If you have a second pan coming today then you should try one Sicilian with starter and the other with commercial yeast and see which dough is preferred by your guests .
Mary Ann

Offline csafranek

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Re: iSicilian
« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2014, 02:02:34 PM »
THAT LOOKS FABULOUS!!!!!!!