Author Topic: Scorched Earth Pizza Oven  (Read 4685 times)

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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Scorched Earth Pizza Oven
« Reply #20 on: January 07, 2014, 04:46:44 PM »
Here is a video of the new oven design.
If there is a feature I didn't include that you think I should add let me know.

Scorched Earth Pizza Oven [Revision A]

http://youtu.be/jmVTZE4Y3wk
Real nice Adam....your player would only show me the vid once though so I wasn't paying enough attention on the only single view I got.
Anyway, is there a stone on the ceiling?

Bob
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Offline Adam T

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Re: Scorched Earth Pizza Oven
« Reply #21 on: January 07, 2014, 04:54:29 PM »
20 inch deck

 ;D That would be something. I wonder if a single burner would handle 20".
« Last Edit: January 07, 2014, 05:15:08 PM by Adam T »

Offline Adam T

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Re: Scorched Earth Pizza Oven
« Reply #22 on: January 07, 2014, 04:55:47 PM »
Real nice Adam....your player would only show me the vid once though so I wasn't paying enough attention on the only single view I got.
Anyway, is there a stone on the ceiling?

Bob

No ceiling stone, the oven relies on burner heat (and heat in the ceiling steel) for top browning.

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Scorched Earth Pizza Oven
« Reply #23 on: January 07, 2014, 05:07:24 PM »
I notice the ceiling slop is a little different on the current prototype. Did the other one also channel top heat down to the 2 elongated dump openings directly above the pizza?

Bob
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Offline Adam T

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Re: Scorched Earth Pizza Oven
« Reply #24 on: January 07, 2014, 05:19:40 PM »
I notice the ceiling slop is a little different on the current prototype. Did the other one also channel top heat down to the 2 elongated dump openings directly above the pizza?

Bob

The prototype channels the heat to above the pizza but it comes out a slot the entire width of the stone. This new design has the two cutouts in the ceiling near the edges of the stone to direct the top heat mainly to the edge of the pizza. Over the rest of the stone there is a flat plate for a ceiling (that is what the cut-outs are in).

I can't figure out why the video is playing only once. If you reload the Youtube page it will let you watch it a second time.

Offline JD

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Re: Scorched Earth Pizza Oven
« Reply #25 on: January 07, 2014, 05:44:15 PM »
20 inch deck

This is actually a very good suggestion that should be considered. You have a very interesting product, but unfortunately Blackstone is a bit ahead of you so now you need to set yourself apart from them. A 20" deck would be an amazing feature for many people.
Josh

Offline Adam T

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Re: Scorched Earth Pizza Oven
« Reply #26 on: January 07, 2014, 07:03:00 PM »
This is actually a very good suggestion that should be considered. You have a very interesting product, but unfortunately Blackstone is a bit ahead of you so now you need to set yourself apart from them. A 20" deck would be an amazing feature for many people.

Hmm thanks for the input guys, I'll have to think about making it bigger. This oven is being designed exclusively for me, no plans to market this. If it works out for me a coworker might make one of his own. If someone really really really liked the design and wanted a 20" deck I could probably be convinced to fabricate one for them. Between shipping and steel costs it wouldn't be dirt cheap though.

Offline JD

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Re: Scorched Earth Pizza Oven
« Reply #27 on: January 08, 2014, 06:31:48 AM »
 Sorry Adam, I just assumed you were designing to sell based on the professionalism of this thread. I am impressed with your initiative and progress, can't wait to see some pies made with the new design.
Josh

Offline Adam T

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Re: Scorched Earth Pizza Oven
« Reply #28 on: January 08, 2014, 07:22:36 AM »
Sorry Adam, I just assumed you were designing to sell based on the professionalism of this thread. I am impressed with your initiative and progress, can't wait to see some pies made with the new design.

I'm probably in the very small group of people crazy enough to model a pizza oven in 3D just for the fun of it  ;D

Next step is probably to make the oven a little lighter. The Scorched Earth Pizza Oven (SEPO) is way heavier than it should be, maybe 100+ pounds. I have used 12 gauge (.1046") and 10 gauge (.1345") steel for the oven shell, I think I need to change the 10ga. steel to 12ga. to save weight. I also need to change out the 7 gauge (.1793") material I used for the top chimney.

At some point I'll also probably add a couple of rails in the upper section that could hold a top shelf in case the chimney directed heat isn't cutting it for top heat. I'm really looking forward to seeing just how fast I can cook a neo pizza without the top stone.  :pizza:

Offline barryvabeach

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Re: Scorched Earth Pizza Oven
« Reply #29 on: January 08, 2014, 07:34:45 AM »
Adam, that looks fantastic.  My favorite feature is the adjustable location of the burner.   


Offline Tampa

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Re: Scorched Earth Pizza Oven
« Reply #30 on: January 08, 2014, 08:42:34 AM »
Good for you Adam.  Love the modeling and innovation.

I did some water/steam experiments in a pizza oven years ago (search if interested), and the results on pizza were underwhelming.  Steam use in bread baking is common, and I was hoping that applying steam to the rim of pizza would result in expansion bigger than a garden hose.   It didn't work for me on pizza.
Dave

Offline Adam T

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Re: Scorched Earth Pizza Oven
« Reply #31 on: January 08, 2014, 09:28:27 AM »
Adam, that looks fantastic.  My favorite feature is the adjustable location of the burner.

Thanks. I think top heat coming directly from the burner where you can adjust the intensity could really shorten the learning curve on the way to getting the perfect top/bottom heat combination.

Good for you Adam.  Love the modeling and innovation.

I did some water/steam experiments in a pizza oven years ago (search if interested), and the results on pizza were underwhelming.  Steam use in bread baking is common, and I was hoping that applying steam to the rim of pizza would result in expansion bigger than a garden hose.   It didn't work for me on pizza.
Dave

Good to know about the steam and pizza. Even though the steam is for bread baking I had been curious about it's effect on pizza.

I'm worried that this oven won't work well for bread. If it doesn't, then the adjustable ceiling height concept will be a waste. Makes me wonder if I should simplify things. Any bread bakers out there want to chime in? I was thinking that this oven would be a good home oven solution as a way to add steam to the bake.

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Scorched Earth Pizza Oven
« Reply #32 on: January 08, 2014, 09:49:33 AM »
The adjustable burner concept is creative, but why not simply use two burners that you could adjust independently to maximize the heat balance with a minimum of effort? It also might make sense to have a low pressure burner under the deck and a high pressure burner in the back?

With the current design, will you have to slide the burner back and forth when baking bread? Is it going to be a problem when you boil out all the water?

Can you not bake bread in your kitchen oven?
I love pigs. They convert vegetables into bacon.

Offline JD

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Re: Scorched Earth Pizza Oven
« Reply #33 on: January 08, 2014, 10:00:38 AM »
IMO the difference between baking bread and pizza outside is highly dependent on the efficiency of the oven. You're probably going to waste a lot of propane making bread due to pre-heat times & 30 minute+ bake times and an uninsulated oven. When I was making beer using a similar burner, I'd probably get 4-6 hours of total burn per tank of propane. Totally worth it for 2 cases of beer, but a few loaves of bread? Probably not. Pizza? For sure.
Josh

Offline Adam T

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Re: Scorched Earth Pizza Oven
« Reply #34 on: January 08, 2014, 10:27:36 AM »
The adjustable burner concept is creative, but why not simply use two burners that you could adjust independently to maximize the heat balance with a minimum of effort? It also might make sense to have a low pressure burner under the deck and a high pressure burner in the back?

Two burners would certainly maximize the adjust-ability. Right now in the prototype I am using a 1" corderite shelf for the stone and it stores a lot of heat. I get the stone up to temp I launch the pizza and move the burner back for top heat and turn the regulator to about half output. When the pizza finishes I move the burner to back under the stone. I haven't needed heat under the stone during the bake. Of course I'm pretty slow between pizzas so I can't say how short the stone recovery time could be.

More testing is necessary.  :chef:

Quote
With the current design, will you have to slide the burner back and forth when baking bread? Is it going to be a problem when you boil out all the water?

Can you not bake bread in your kitchen oven?

The bread baking idea is subject to testing, I'll probably need to move the burner back and forth or I might be able to let it straddle between the two positions providing top heat and heat the stone at the same time.

When the water boils out I have a hole in the back where I can refill the reservoir. When it goes dry it won't be a problem either.

It's been a long time since I attempted a Tartine style loaf at all. In my oven I covered the bread boule with a stainless steel bowl and had a cup of water to provide steam. The idea is that this oven design would provide a unique solution to adding steam to the first half of the bake. Also, I'm interested in the what the convection properties of this oven could do for good top browning. The huge downside is trying to keep an even heat for a 30 to 40 minute bake. I'm sure bread would take a lot more trial and error to get it right than a traditional home oven.

Thinking back through the design, the adjustable ceiling height doesn't add a TON of extra work and parts. It's nice to have a removable top for ease of assembly too.

Offline Adam T

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Re: Scorched Earth Pizza Oven
« Reply #35 on: January 08, 2014, 10:35:17 AM »
IMO the difference between baking bread and pizza outside is highly dependent on the efficiency of the oven. You're probably going to waste a lot of propane making bread due to pre-heat times & 30 minute+ bake times and an uninsulated oven. When I was making beer using a similar burner, I'd probably get 4-6 hours of total burn per tank of propane. Totally worth it for 2 cases of beer, but a few loaves of bread? Probably not. Pizza? For sure.

Really good point. I'll need to revisit the design and see what the benefits would be of less or no adjust-ability to the ceiling. Adding a turntable, having a larger deck, and lessening my pre-heat time (conserving propane) are some of the things I'd really like to accomplish in this build versus my current pizza oven.

Offline barryvabeach

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Re: Scorched Earth Pizza Oven
« Reply #36 on: January 08, 2014, 09:17:15 PM »
Adam,  I do a fair amount of bread baking, and think you are wasting time and effort on the height adjustment and the steam.  Turning to the steam, do a youtube video of the steam injection in a baking oven - you will see it is a serious amount of steam - and they inject it several times in a few minutes.  I don't think your setup will in any way replicate that, and in fact it will mostly seep out of the oven since it is hardly sealed.  Second, there is no real benefit to using that oven for pizza - from what I have read, you use the residual heat of a WFO to bake bread - since you have the residual heat anyway, why not.  I made some bread in a BS just to see if I could, and the whole time I kept thinking it was an awful waste of gas.   The main appeal of yours, and the BS, is a quick start up time, which means there is not much in the way of residual heat.  Since it is gas fired, you can't really seal the oven off like you can in a electric oven.  I would just focus on the pizza.  Those that want steam for baking have a number of other options ( covered containers like DO,  injecting steam in a pan, ice water in a pan of metal, etc ).   

Offline Tampa

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Re: Scorched Earth Pizza Oven
« Reply #37 on: January 09, 2014, 10:08:31 AM »
Adam,  I do a fair amount of bread baking, and think you are wasting time and effort on the height adjustment and the steam.  Turning to the steam, do a youtube video of the steam injection in a baking oven - you will see it is a serious amount of steam - and they inject it several times in a few minutes.  I don't think your setup will in any way replicate that, and in fact it will mostly seep out of the oven since it is hardly sealed.  Second, there is no real benefit to using that oven for pizza - from what I have read, you use the residual heat of a WFO to bake bread - since you have the residual heat anyway, why not.  I made some bread in a BS just to see if I could, and the whole time I kept thinking it was an awful waste of gas.   The main appeal of yours, and the BS, is a quick start up time, which means there is not much in the way of residual heat.  Since it is gas fired, you can't really seal the oven off like you can in a electric oven.  I would just focus on the pizza.  Those that want steam for baking have a number of other options ( covered containers like DO,  injecting steam in a pan, ice water in a pan of metal, etc ).
Wow Barry, very well reasoned and well written.
Dave

Offline Adam T

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Re: Scorched Earth Pizza Oven
« Reply #38 on: January 09, 2014, 10:44:43 AM »
Thanks for the input all!

The 5" of ceiling height adjustment it out of the design now. The adjustment bolts and front cover are removed now. I'll be able to trim up some length on the upper shroud which will save some steel weight.

There are two things I'm still mulling over. The first is the appropriate distance for the burner to be below the baking stone. On my prototype the distance 6" and I have 6-1/8" in my new design. The prototype has a 1" corderite kiln shelf with direct flame to the underside of the stone. The new design will have the cheap 5/8" pizza stone found on Amazon (made in China?) with a 7 gauge (.1793") plate under the stone.

The other question is, what an optimal height for the height of the ceiling to be above the stone is. The prototype is 3-3/8", my new design is at 3" adjustable up to 4-1/4".

Any suggestions?

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Scorched Earth Pizza Oven
« Reply #39 on: January 09, 2014, 12:47:05 PM »
Thanks for the input all!

The 5" of ceiling height adjustment it out of the design now. The adjustment bolts and front cover are removed now. I'll be able to trim up some length on the upper shroud which will save some steel weight.

There are two things I'm still mulling over. The first is the appropriate distance for the burner to be below the baking stone. On my prototype the distance 6" and I have 6-1/8" in my new design. The prototype has a 1" corderite kiln shelf with direct flame to the underside of the stone. The new design will have the cheap 5/8" pizza stone found on Amazon (made in China?) with a 7 gauge (.1793") plate under the stone.

The other question is, what an optimal height for the height of the ceiling to be above the stone is. The prototype is 3-3/8", my new design is at 3" adjustable up to 4-1/4".

Any suggestions?
I think the best answers might be to just simply copy specs from the BS oven Adam. The oven is a proven winner so why not? You definitely won't need that 7ga. platter for one thing $.
Just let us know...I'd be glad to go out back with a tape measure and get you some numbers.

Bob
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"