Author Topic: To toss or not, if no one sees you?  (Read 372 times)

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Online mkevenson

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To toss or not, if no one sees you?
« on: October 19, 2014, 11:57:52 AM »
I have read several times that tossing the dough during opening is only for show.  ^^^  Now with the advent of videos by Norma, showing Frank, tossing every skin, I am wondering if it is all for show or not? ???
It seems that if no one is watching you open your db there may be an advantage in tossing, just to get that db stretched properly and evenly. I know that there are many pies that turn out great without tossing, and, it is probably a matter of which style pie you are making, BUT if no one sees you, do you toss?


Mark
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Offline Jackitup

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Re: To toss or not, if no one sees you?
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2014, 12:07:03 PM »
Sometimes but it's mostly for me, it's fun. There is the centrifuge effect you can get from it I guess, but even though I think I'm good, probably not that good and better to stay out of space :-D

jon

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Offline norma427

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Re: To toss or not, if no one sees you?
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2014, 12:21:04 PM »
Mark,

I also wondered the same thing after watching how even Frank's skins always are.  I can't toss and twirl the dough right so I guess I will never really find out which method is better.  I see how fast the skins openly easily when Frank tosses and twirls the dough.  Frank's hands interest me too on how he has them when he opens a dough.


Norma
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Online waltertore

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Re: To toss or not, if no one sees you?
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2014, 12:56:56 PM »
For me the dough dictates what to do. Baking at home you can control the state of your dough balls with time on the bench/days old.  In a commercial setting if you do multi day cold ferments like I do the range of how to open the ball is always changing.  That is why most pizzerias use 1-2 day cold ferment because it very stable.  I like tossing dough when people are around who are interested in seeing it but really don't care what method I use.  Walter

Online mkevenson

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Re: To toss or not, if no one sees you?
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2014, 01:26:00 PM »
Norma, Walter and jon. Thank you for your replies.  Norma, I wonder if Frank feels that the toss and twirl is essential or just an option? Perhaps you can ask him,
Jon, I appreciate doing things for my own enjoyment too. I really enjoy hand kneading and mixing, and have returned to that method recently, even tho I was producing good reproducible results with the stand mixer. It's just more fun, by hand.
Walter, yes, dough quality at the time of opening a db seems to be a guiding force in the process. I guess with much more experience than I have , one can  replicate the same process over and over, in a controlled environment.


Walter, you have mentioned in previous posts, that you practiced with a towel when you were in your developmental period. What shape /size towel did you practice with? I have a few hours to practice today. :o

Mark
« Last Edit: October 19, 2014, 01:29:30 PM by mkevenson »
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Offline norma427

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Re: To toss or not, if no one sees you?
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2014, 01:40:19 PM »

Norma, I wonder if Frank feels that the toss and twirl is essential or just an option? Perhaps you can ask him,

Mark


Mark,

I really don't think Frank feels that the toss and twirl is essential, but I will ask him if he likes tossed and twirled pies better.

Norma
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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: To toss or not, if no one sees you?
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2014, 01:58:47 PM »
It's 100% for show which has considerable value in certain situations.
Pizza is not bread.

Online waltertore

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Re: To toss or not, if no one sees you?
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2014, 02:09:21 PM »
Norma, Walter and jon. Thank you for your replies.  Norma, I wonder if Frank feels that the toss and twirl is essential or just an option? Perhaps you can ask him,
Jon, I appreciate doing things for my own enjoyment too. I really enjoy hand kneading and mixing, and have returned to that method recently, even tho I was producing good reproducible results with the stand mixer. It's just more fun, by hand.
Walter, yes, dough quality at the time of opening a db seems to be a guiding force in the process. I guess with much more experience than I have , one can  replicate the same process over and over, in a controlled environment.


Walter, you have mentioned in previous posts, that you practiced with a towel when you were in your developmental period. What shape /size towel did you practice with? I have a few hours to practice today. :o

Mark


Mark:  Doing a few dough balls at home at a time is nothing like doing 50 or more over a day.  Timing to when to get them out based on how old they are, what the room temp is, how fast are they moving, etc, all come into play.  Sometimes I overestimate with taking dough boxes out and put a box or 2 back in the fridge till needed.  I often feel people who home bake pizza over anaylize things way too much.  Frank is great for realizing that with all the various flours, states of dough rise, etc, in his videos.  I say just go for it.  Flour is cheap and the only way to learn is with repitition.   There is no trick to catch up on experience. Buy a 50 lb bag of flour and toss till its done :)

I learned on a regular dish towel.  Frank demonstrated that on one of his videos.  That is just how I learned and how I taught Paige to toss after I saw this picture.   When she started with me I had to continually tell her to back up. She was like velcro on me and studying my every move.  I had no idea she was mimicking my tossing until I saw this picture.  That was just before our christmas break so I sent her home with a towel.  You can work with it wet, but not dripping.   She came back after the 2 week break and took off with a bit of instruction. the video is from a few weeks later.   They sell  rubber doughes that are different sizes up to 20" (I think) for practicing tossing too.  Walter

« Last Edit: October 19, 2014, 02:11:01 PM by waltertore »

Online waltertore

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Re: To toss or not, if no one sees you?
« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2014, 02:12:57 PM »
It's 100% for show which has considerable value in certain situations.

I agree but also will add that when the dough is in the prime tossing state a quick shape on the bench to open it and  it will completely open with one or 2 quick tosses and that is quicker that other methods for a NY pie.  With that said most every authentic NYC/NJ pizzeria uses the hand toss. Nowadays people go way crazy with it. I am talking a simple toss with no acrobatics and such.  Walter
« Last Edit: October 19, 2014, 02:14:55 PM by waltertore »

Offline woodmakesitgood

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Re: To toss or not, if no one sees you?
« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2014, 02:47:15 PM »
I doubt its only for show...maybe Norma can ask Frank.
His tosses increase the size of the skin considerably.
It might be more unwieldy to hand stretch all the way out to 18" compared to a couple of quick tosses.



Online Pete-zza

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Re: To toss or not, if no one sees you?
« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2014, 05:03:41 PM »
This is what Tom Lehmann has said on this subject:

Reply 9 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,10449.msg92753.html#msg92753.

Peter

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: To toss or not, if no one sees you?
« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2014, 05:32:54 PM »
This is what Tom Lehmann has said on this subject:

Reply 9 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,10449.msg92753.html#msg92753.

Peter

I find that very hard to believe. Perhaps as compared to opening the ball on a flat surface (and even as such I doubt it makes a meaningful difference). This method must accomplish the same, if not more, drying effect: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,32859.msg325359.html#msg325359. Starting round, more than spinning or anything else, is how you get a round pie. Spinning a misshaped dough will not make it round.
Pizza is not bread.

Online mkevenson

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Re: To toss or not, if no one sees you?
« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2014, 05:49:50 PM »
Walter, I agree that doing anything at home is far different than doing it commercially.
I also agree that flour is relatively cheap. I however have a really hard time throwing food away.  :-[
When training for BBQ comps I had tons of smoked meat that went to friends and neighbors.  I don't know about 50 lbs of pizza skins? ;D
Mark
« Last Edit: October 19, 2014, 08:10:45 PM by mkevenson »
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Online waltertore

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Re: To toss or not, if no one sees you?
« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2014, 07:34:06 PM »
Walter, I agree that doing anything at home is far different than doing it commercially.
I also agree that flour is relatively cheap. I however have a really hard time throwing food away.  :-[
When training for BBQ comps I had tons of smoked meat that went to friends and neighbors.  I don't know about 50 smoked of pizza skins? ;D
Mark

Mark: Turn the tossed dough into pizza knots and give it to your neighbors :)  Repitition is the only way to get good at it.  Walter

Offline Giggliato

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Re: To toss or not, if no one sees you?
« Reply #14 on: Today at 12:14:31 AM »
To some it is all just a show, or a game. I agree with Walter though, you should let the dough tell you what it wants. A multireballed high hydration week old dough might not make it through a toss and will need to be lightly turned and allowed to fall.

Offline David Esq.

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Re: To toss or not, if no one sees you?
« Reply #15 on: Today at 02:29:21 AM »
Forkish says he tosses to get an evenly thinned dough and suggests making five doughs and always practice tossing one or two when making a pie until you get it right.

Offline gfgman

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Re: To toss or not, if no one sees you?
« Reply #16 on: Today at 11:15:23 AM »
I'm going to say that in some cases, there may be a practical element to tossing a dough.  I've been to shops where they make extra pies for slices at lunch time.  When they finish the pie under the glass, they full another pie out from wherever they keep the extras. 
I went to a shop several times where they didn't make extra pies.  The owner would pull a dough ball, flatten it out, twirl it and stick his fist in the middle, drop it on the board, sauce and cheese, and in the oven.  The whole process couldn't have been more than 30 seconds.  I think it's safe to say that one reason he didn't keep extra pies around was because he could get new ones in the oven so quickly.     

Online mkevenson

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Re: To toss or not, if no one sees you?
« Reply #17 on: Today at 11:17:23 AM »
Thanks for your comments,  all.  I think I have realized that my dough balls have not been ready to be tossed. I am taking Walter ' advice and will make dough balls daily until I get it right.
Mark
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