Author Topic: Trying my first RT ferment  (Read 317 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline nick57

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1392
  • Location: Tulsa OK
Trying my first RT ferment
« on: April 25, 2016, 08:43:28 PM »
  Thought I would give a room temp ferment a try. I am making a NY style. I used Craig's Yeast Prediction Calculator. Using the calculator, I am going for a 42 hour rest at 74 degrees using 0.02 grams of IDY. I have done RT ferments before, they were for a 24 hour cracker crusts. Not much of  rise because of the low hydration. This should be different. Glad I had my jewelry scale, 0.02 grams is about 10 little balls of yeast.

Offline TXCraig1

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 18556
  • Location: Houston, TX
    • Craig's Neapolitan Garage
Re: Trying my first RT ferment
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2016, 08:56:06 PM »
Glad I had my jewelry scale, 0.02 grams is about 10 little balls of yeast.

42 or 32 hours? I hope you dissolved the IDY into the water.

"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline nick57

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1392
  • Location: Tulsa OK
Re: Trying my first RT ferment
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2016, 09:23:56 PM »
  Well Craig this is gonna be fun! I need new glasses, or it could be I had an adult beverage or two then looked at the chart. ;D The rise should be 50 hours at 74 with a 0.010% IDY. That means I should use the dough around 9PM.  I might stick the dough ball in the fridge to retard it . No loss ifin it does not work out, just another long line of experiments. I could place the ball in a warm oven for a few hours to speed up the rise. No, I did not hydrate the IDY, should I have done that? Hate being blind. ::)
If ya have any suggestions.... I am open to them as always. It's only a little flour and water.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2016, 09:27:09 PM by nick57 »

Offline Minolta Rokkor

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 414
  • Location: Virginia 757, Hampton Roads
  • I Do It For The Guests.
Re: Trying my first RT ferment
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2016, 09:30:00 PM »
Gonna start my first precise and controlled RT ferment sometime tomorrow.

I also acquired a jewelry scale as well.

Offline TXCraig1

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 18556
  • Location: Houston, TX
    • Craig's Neapolitan Garage
Re: Trying my first RT ferment
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2016, 09:37:47 PM »
You are looking at an old chart.

This is the latest revision: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=26831.msg355933#msg355933. For this revision, I simply added a third decimal resolution to the yeast quantities.

0.010% at 74F predicts 32 hours. In any case, you should be watching it for the last 12 hours or so and warming/cooling as needed to hit your target. Depending on what you do, you can make the appropriate tweaks to the yeast quantity the next time.

In the case of tiny quantities of yeast, it's not so much about hydrating the IDY but rather getting even distribution in the dough. As you noted, you aren't using much. Yeast in dough is not motile. I think you could end up with lots of dough that is not inoculated.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline nick57

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1392
  • Location: Tulsa OK
Re: Trying my first RT ferment
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2016, 09:07:17 AM »
Thanks Craig. I was wondering how the small amount of yeast was going to work through the flour. Oh well, going to to see what happens anyway. It's been 13 hours since I made the ball, and it's starting to look like it could be ready later today. Not sure if I will use it, will decide on how it looks and feels. I might wait till tonight to  either use it or start over. Gotta learn from mistakes. How long should I let the IDY hydrate?
« Last Edit: April 26, 2016, 09:10:33 AM by nick57 »

Offline TXCraig1

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 18556
  • Location: Houston, TX
    • Craig's Neapolitan Garage
Re: Trying my first RT ferment
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2016, 09:19:55 AM »
I usually dissolve the salt into the water then add the IDY. I let it sit for a few seconds then hit it with a whisk for a few seconds until the water gets milky, then add the flour.

Maybe it will work without doing this. I don't know.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline nick57

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1392
  • Location: Tulsa OK
Re: Trying my first RT ferment
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2016, 11:06:44 AM »
This is what the dough looks like after 12 hours. Gonna keep an eye on it. If it looks good after 9 more hours I may use it. If not, may re-fridge over night. Or may start over from scratch. Kinda on the fence with this one. Whatever happens, it's a good learning experience.

Offline nick57

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1392
  • Location: Tulsa OK
Re: Trying my first RT ferment
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2016, 05:16:40 PM »
Guess I am going to launch. The dough looks OK. Bubbles seem pretty uniform. Going to open it up in 40 minutes. I used KABF, and DMP, which was not listed in the recipe. Will be lightly topped with sauce, 5oz whole milk mozz and 4oz of Italian sausage. It will have sat at 74 degrees for 22 hours.

Offline Minolta Rokkor

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 414
  • Location: Virginia 757, Hampton Roads
  • I Do It For The Guests.
Re: Trying my first RT ferment
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2016, 05:56:30 PM »
FYI, when I finished hand kneading my dough, the dough temp was 81*F.
So I think , i'll be a little more conservative.

BTW, I have dough in my wine cooler now, it's scheduled for 47 to 48 hours, but it will probably be ready sooner.

Offline nick57

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1392
  • Location: Tulsa OK
Re: Trying my first RT ferment
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2016, 06:46:25 PM »
  Well my RT ferment experiment was a total failure, only because I used the wrong % of IDY. Used the wrong calculator, and wrong percentage. It was supposed to be a 42 hour rise, but used the dough after 22 hours. As for the pie, it was pretty good. The crust was thin and crispy, and had a nice chew. My taster really liked the crust. If I want a quick RT ferment, I can use this recipe. I'll wait a week or so and make another run. This time using the right amount of IDY and going out to 50 hours. By the way.. I really like Trader Joe's whole milk mozzarella. It's better than what I can get around here, but that may not be saying much.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2016, 07:00:09 PM by nick57 »

Offline TXCraig1

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 18556
  • Location: Houston, TX
    • Craig's Neapolitan Garage
Re: Trying my first RT ferment
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2016, 06:56:39 PM »
  Well my RT ferment experiment was a total failure, only because I used the wrong % of IDY. Used the wrong calculator, and wrong percentage. It was supposed to be a 42 hour rise, but used the dough after 22 hours. As for the pie, it was pretty good. The crust was thin and crispy, and had a nice chew. My taster really liked the crust. If I want a quick RT ferment, I can use this recipe. I'll wait a week or so and make another run. This time using the right amount of IDY and going out to 50 hours. BY the way.. I really like Trader Joe's whole milk mozzarella. It's better than what I can get around here, but that may not be saying much.

If you learned something, it wasn't a total failure  ;D Pie looks pretty good from here.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage


Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 24555
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Trying my first RT ferment
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2016, 07:22:23 PM »
Nick,

I agree with Craig on both counts. I remember when I played around with long room-temperature doughs. I conducted a lot of experiments from which I learned an enormous amount. To give you an idea, you might take a look at the opening post at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=7225.msg62332#msg62332. Since you are in nearby Oklahoma and know what hot ambient temperatures are like, you might relate to some of what I discussed. At the time of my post, I did not have the benefit of Craig's yeast table but as I noted at Reply 175 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=7225.msg393294#msg393294, after testing some yeast values I suggested that members use Craig's chart. Stick with Craig's chart and should be in pretty good shape.

Peter

Offline nick57

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1392
  • Location: Tulsa OK
Re: Trying my first RT ferment
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2016, 09:28:57 PM »
  Thanks Craig and Pete! Even though things went south with the prep, the crust was really good and I had fun. I think I have been leaning to TFs of around .07 lately, thin and crispy. I get more satisfaction when I screw things up and am able to work through it. I think it comes from the very technical occupations I have worked in through the years. Now I am an artist I have learned there is a lot of technical ideas when creating something artistic. I render my paintings using a pressure sensitive drawing tablet, and true to life painting programs. It;s just like making pizza, hard work and determination. 

  Pete, you described some things in your links I ran into making this pie. I think the dough was a little past prime, maybe over fermented. I did not re ball thinking that I did not need to because of the short ferment time.  The dough was sticky and not very elastic. I did not do myself any favors...60% hydration, oil, sugar and DMP probably was the cause of some of the wet and sticky feel. Next time around, I will just do flour, water, yeast, salt and DMP. I am going to do 60% hydration again. If I have the same problem, I'll start cutting back on the hydration.
 
The forum has really helped in my dough handling skills. Even with a bad batch, I can usually overcome it, You have seen some of my failures that in the end turned out OK. My one problem, I am still having trouble coming up with a good red sauce. I know a lot has to do with the tomatoes. Guess I need to start going through the sauce formulas in the forum.

 It does get pretty hot in the summer here. Couple of years ago it got up to 113 degrees in August. Fortunately my home is well insulated, and I have a state of the art A/C system. Not too much in temp  fluctuations. RT ferments make CF's kinda seem like child's play. So much can go wrong quickly, and you better be right about the room temps and very accurate on the  measurements of the yeast. Hmm... sounds like more fun to be had. ;D
« Last Edit: April 26, 2016, 09:36:44 PM by nick57 »