Author Topic: Making the switch from KABF to All Trumps... Tweak recipe?  (Read 147 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Mr Feelgood

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 40
  • Location: Pittsburgh, PA
  • I Love Pizza!
Making the switch from KABF to All Trumps... Tweak recipe?
« on: September 12, 2014, 01:42:40 PM »
My pizza making journey started only about a month ago but I feel that I've progressed at a quick rate.  I started off with Better for Bread flour, then moved to King Arthur Bread flour.  I am using Grande 50/50 cheese, 6in1 tomatoes, and Ezzo pepperoni.  Luckily I have Pennmac in my backyard so obtaining these quality ingredients is not a problem.  I have been using a 1/2" steel plate in my convection oven to make my pies.  Recently the bug hit my hard however and I placed an order for the Blackstone outdoor pizza oven which I should have in my possession within a couple of weeks.

While I was at Pennmac today, I picked up a 5lb bag of All Trumps bromated/bleached flour and a 5lb Caputo 00 "blue bag" to try.  I am going to obviously wait until the Blackstone gets here in order to use the high temperature Caputo flour but I'd like to give the All Trumps flour a try this weekend.  I have attached my current formula/recipe that I've been using with the King Arthur Bread Flour and steel plate.  I am letting the dough cold ferment in the fridge for 3-5 days before using it.  Do I need to adjust any of the percentages when making the switch to All Trumps?  Can someone please give me tweaked percentages that will make a good dough with this flour.


 


Online JD

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1110
  • Location: NE Mississippi, but NY born & raised
Re: Making the switch from KABF to All Trumps... Tweak recipe?
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2014, 01:56:34 PM »
Your recipe is fine, maybe a bit high on the oil but if you want something more crispy 4% is fine.

What's more important is your kneading/balling technique with AT. Less is more, or you'll end up with a very difficult dough to stretch and/or an uneven ball that never relaxes. What is your current kneading/balling process?

Josh

Offline Mr Feelgood

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 40
  • Location: Pittsburgh, PA
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Making the switch from KABF to All Trumps... Tweak recipe?
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2014, 02:10:37 PM »
JD:  If I wanted it a little more tender/chewy, what do you suggest I drop the oil to?  Also, in regards to mixing the dry/wet ingredients.  Currently I mix the water, yeast, oil, sugar, in a bowl and the flour/salt in another bowl (because I read that a high dose of salt could potentially harm yeast).  Then I slowly add the wet bowl into the flour bowl while whisking.  Is this the correct way or should I put the yeast, sugar, salt, and flour into one bowl and just the water/oil in another bowl?

Currently I hand mix all ingredients in a large bowl with a Danish Dough Whisk.  Once everything forms and becomes a ball, I hand knead (push away with palms, fold in half, turn, and push away again) on kitchen counter for a timed 5 minutes.  I then pull the ball into a log shape and cut into two equal pieces.  Next I shape the dough balls and pull the sides of the ball downwards until the tops become smooth.  Lastly, I put them in lightly oiled containers, brush with a little oil, cover tightly with plastic wrap and put them in the fridge.  I usually use the first one on day 3 and the second on day 5 or 6.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2014, 02:12:14 PM by Mr Feelgood »

Online JD

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1110
  • Location: NE Mississippi, but NY born & raised
Re: Making the switch from KABF to All Trumps... Tweak recipe?
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2014, 02:27:22 PM »
JD:  If I wanted it a little more tender/chewy, what do you suggest I drop the oil to?  Also, in regards to mixing the dry/wet ingredients.  Currently I mix the water, yeast, oil, sugar, in a bowl and the flour/salt in another bowl (because I read that a high dose of salt could potentially harm yeast).  Then I slowly add the wet bowl into the flour bowl while whisking.  Is this the correct way or should I put the yeast, sugar, salt, and flour into one bowl and just the water/oil in another bowl?

4% Oil will make your crust tender, but also likely give an eggshell crunch. AT in itself will give you a chewy crust, so eliminating oil isn't the best idea. 2% is a good balance of chewy & tender in my opinion... opinions vary greatly on this forum though.


Currently I hand mix all ingredients in a large bowl with a Danish Dough Whisk.  Once everything forms and becomes a ball, I hand knead (push away with palms, fold in half, turn, and push away again) on kitchen counter for a timed 5 minutes.  I then pull the ball into a log shape and cut into two equal pieces.  Next I shape the dough balls and pull the sides of the ball downwards until the tops become smooth.  Lastly, I put them in lightly oiled containers, brush with a little oil, cover tightly with plastic wrap and put them in the fridge.  I usually use the first one on day 3 and the second on day 5 or 6.

It sounds like you have a nice process, I wouldn't make any changes to that. Just make sure your ball is nice and round, and you close that seam tight on the bottom when balling.

AT has a learning curve because it becomes over-kneaded pretty easily, but if you stick to your process you will be fine. 
Josh

Online scott123

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 6954
Re: Making the switch from KABF to All Trumps... Tweak recipe?
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2014, 06:14:49 PM »
Mr Feelgood, the recipe I gave you before was an attempt to give you the Pittsburgh-y NY style pizza that you were getting locally, if you want to step up your game (and it sounds like you do), then my suggestion would be to tackle a more authentic NY style pie.  It's not going to be that dramatically different than what you're making- just a few tweaks here and there.

Since you have access to KABF, this is the recipe I'd recommend:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=27591.msg279395#msg279395

Don't worry about the instructions to purchase a cordierite stone.  Steel will work better.  You seem to have gained a certain comfort level with the dough calculator- that's great. Use it to scale the 123 recipe down to your steel size. As you move forward, thickness factor is going to get more and more critical.  You want to both develop the stretching skill to stretch the dough thinner, along with scaling the dough so when you do stretch it thin, it's the right size for your steel. For now, use .085 for the thickness factor, but, as you gain proficiency stretching, start going lower- to .08 and then to .075.

All Trumps is, imo, too strong for pizza.  You can underknead it, but it takes a lot of work to prevent it from getting tough on you- and if you underknead it too much, you risk undermixing it, which is very bad. If you're going to use the AT, blend it with something weaker, preferably something very weak, like pastry flour (not cake flour), so you can add just a little bit and bring the protein down.  If all you can find is all purpose, a 66% AT/33% AP blend wouldn't be the end of the world- and would make your life far easier. You can use this blend in my 123 recipe above without any changes to the hydration.

While you'll find some cookbook authors that provide pizza recipes where the dough can be used in 1 to 3 (or more days), if you want the best pizza possible, you really want to get away from that.  If you're making a 3 day dough, you should be baking it up on day 3.  Worst case scenario, day 4, but never day 5 or 6.  You can obviously make a 5 day dough (with less yeast), but don't use a 5 day dough on day 3.  It's a major pain in the butt to have to be tied so closely to a schedule, but the window where dough is at it's peak is just not that big.

Lastly, I wouldn't oil the dough ball.  It will just roll down and collect on the sides, and, when you stretch the skin, the excess oil will be a flour magnet.

Edit: I just noticed the pizza in the other thread you're trying to clone.  While I think a thinner crust is worth experimenting with, if you want to reverse engineer that, I'd probably go above .1 in thickness factor.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2014, 11:04:04 AM by scott123 »


 

pizzapan