Author Topic: 3 dough for Sunday's Pizza!!!!  (Read 5228 times)

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Offline parallei

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Re: 3 dough for Sunday's Pizza!!!!
« Reply #100 on: July 26, 2016, 11:28:12 PM »
Did you enjoy it? That seems pretty similar to "le pizze ordinarie" - oil, salt, oregano, garlic cloves (we're almost at a marinara  ;D )

One of members, Omid, was kind enough to spend many, many hours putting together information on the history of Neapolitan Pizza.  You check it out here:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=14506.0

Offline invertedisdead

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Re: 3 dough for Sunday's Pizza!!!!
« Reply #101 on: Yesterday at 01:46:17 AM »
One of members, Omid, was kind enough to spend many, many hours putting together information on the history of Neapolitan Pizza.  You check it out here:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=14506.0

Yes, I enjoy that thread. I posted it because I have not seen any reference to that particular book, "Napoli in miniatura"
It does seem to confirm what Omid posted from Bouchard and Dumas in their separate works on Naples.
Ryan

Offline Antilife

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Re: 3 dough for Sunday's Pizza!!!!
« Reply #102 on: Yesterday at 02:32:59 AM »
This is a beautiful explanation of a traveler passing through Naples and discover the pizza and become enthusiastic about it. then explains the types of topping and baking. he must be an expert because he realizes the cooking methods and the similarity with the focaccia. Obviously he knows perfectly lard, who discovers his name nsogna in Naples. Obviously he does not speak of the dough. But the tradition was always the same ... make the most tasty and nutritious food that poor people ate

Offline fagilia

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Re: 3 dough for Sunday's Pizza!!!!
« Reply #103 on: Yesterday at 03:13:00 AM »
antilife why do you prefere pivetti? Becuase only italian grains or in what way is it better than caputo?
ALso i never really got where you got the information that strutto is traditionally used in th neapolitan pizza dough?
Is it only your thoughts or is there some kind of referens. I think many here in the forum would
be interested in these kinds of reference.
There are many saying strutto is not used but none i have seen so far that say it was and is used to a large extent. It would be very interesting to know.
Or are you hiding the information from us ?  :D
Saying fat is used in bread normally in italy cant explain why you use it in pizza dough right? Must be something more?

Offline Antilife

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3 dough for Sunday's Pizza!!!!
« Reply #104 on: Yesterday at 04:46:10 AM »
Fagilia, for "traditions" south of italy make best Mozzarellas, Tomatoes , vegetables.... but for wheat North Italy is the best place where grow and grind grain (and sicily for  durum). 

I use Pivetti because use field certified near my city (Modena ,Bologna and Ferrara) .... therefore only Italian grain. I use Pivetti, Dallagiovanna and Mulino Marino....

Struttogate: in every ancient receipe, in north and south strutto is always used. You can use or not.... it's only a choise of taste. With or without, Oil Evo  and Butter(not in pizza please) or ...... there's another secret..... an Egg!!! if you use a poor flour with low protein (the old woman use it in the past)

Offline fagilia

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Re: 3 dough for Sunday's Pizza!!!!
« Reply #105 on: Yesterday at 06:11:04 AM »
Thank you,
Yes i know i can use it or not, and i have used it many many times. Iam just looking for any kind of real reference or something saying that strutto is used? Other than yourself. Who else of importance is saying that strutto is used and was used in the past? Or are is the sturtto in neapolitan dough just your beliefs?
We in this forum are very interseted in the all aspects of the neapolitan pizza and this is new information and therefore very interesting.

Offline Don Luigi

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Re: 3 dough for Sunday's Pizza!!!!
« Reply #106 on: Yesterday at 06:23:40 AM »
To my understanding olive oil/strutto/other fats in Pizza dough are more northern italian tradition (my nephew has been working in a Pizzeria with northern italian chef and they used oil in their (very mediocre) dough too).
Also very common in "house-wife" pizza dough - this is BY NO MEANS meant negative. I adore italia cuisine but I never saw the use of Strutto or other fats in traditional NEAPOLITAN pizza dough recipes. Of course you can use it and if you like the results that's just as fine but I don't think pig fat is a part of NEAPOLITAN tradition. In parts of Italy for sure though.
On a neapolitan pizza journey with Wood fired oven Pizza Party 70x70
My Pizza

Offline Antilife

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Re: 3 dough for Sunday's Pizza!!!!
« Reply #107 on: Yesterday at 07:30:27 AM »
the use of fat in the dough is usually frequent to change the structure of the product. Olive oil increases fragrance, seed oil increases the crispness, lard softness, as well as the taste. I do not understand why you want point always on this issue. It's amazing how Italians are more flexible that foreigners on this question..... maybe because the use of fats is accepted and we can really choose. I attend all the Italian groups on the pizza and the only issues on lard are given health and vegans ..... just here from you is born the struttogate

Offline Don Luigi

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Re: 3 dough for Sunday's Pizza!!!!
« Reply #108 on: Yesterday at 07:32:52 AM »
the use of fat in the dough is usually frequent to change the structure of the product. Olive oil increases fragrance, seed oil increases the crispness, lard softness, as well as the taste. I do not understand why you want point always on this issue. It's amazing how Italians are more flexible that foreigners on this question..... maybe because the use of fats is accepted and we can really choose. I attend all the Italian groups on the pizza and the only issues on lard are given health and vegans ..... just here from you is born the struttogate
Hey Antilife, it's just interesting. Nobody is accusing you or anything. It's a topic to discuss. You know, live and learn like you yourself pointed out earlier...;-)
On a neapolitan pizza journey with Wood fired oven Pizza Party 70x70
My Pizza

Offline Antilife

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Re: 3 dough for Sunday's Pizza!!!!
« Reply #109 on: Yesterday at 08:31:38 AM »
ahaha yes Don Luigi, you are right.... here in my post ... in other posts i read incredible things

Offline fagilia

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Re: 3 dough for Sunday's Pizza!!!!
« Reply #110 on: Yesterday at 11:30:27 AM »
Antilife are you avoiding My question about reference for use off strutto in the neapolitan pizza dough?
With reference i mean somebody who says they are using it. A known pizzaiolo for example?
It would be interesting to Know. IF there is no known user it would be interesting too.
And yes offcourse we are different in some ways iam swedish for example. But one thing we all have in common here is to share all information that we have so we Can progress forward. It has been very helpful for myself.

Offline invertedisdead

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Re: 3 dough for Sunday's Pizza!!!!
« Reply #111 on: Yesterday at 12:55:15 PM »
Why would it be strange to put lard in the dough but not on it? Obviously they enjoyed the taste or it wouldn't have appeared at all. I was under the impression olive oil was more expensive since the Lazzarini barely had access to tomatoes even.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 01:05:56 PM by invertedisdead »
Ryan


Offline Antilife

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3 dough for Sunday's Pizza!!!!
« Reply #112 on: Yesterday at 02:24:53 PM »
Fagilia sure... one of famous pizzaiolo is Antonino Esposito, my first Maestro, i always used strutto in my dough, and when I follow his training , he used a special nsogna (fat) coocked slow with white wine and laurel (in south italy some family use white wine ). Antonino is famous and lead a program tv about pizza. With him i discovered the first rule of pizza:
Pizza is not only the dough , but Dough,Tomaroes and Mozzarella. it's simple to say but hard to understand

Offline parallei

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Re: 3 dough for Sunday's Pizza!!!!
« Reply #113 on: Yesterday at 07:26:33 PM »
Fagilia sure... one of famous pizzaiolo is Antonino Esposito, my first Maestro, i always used strutto in my dough, and when I follow his training , he used a special nsogna (fat) coocked slow with white wine and laurel (in south italy some family use white wine ). Antonino is famous and lead a program tv about pizza. With him i discovered the first rule of pizza:
Pizza is not only the dough , but Dough,Tomaroes and Mozzarella. it's simple to say but hard to understand

Well, it is not THAT hard to understand! ;D

I read some of Sig. Esposito's recipes for the home/indoor/low heat oven.  They were interesting.  The recipes included a dough (about 62% hydration, salt, and yeast) made the day before and then refrigerated.  Using a portion of the refrigerated dough, and fat, egg, water, flour, and more yeast, the pizza dough was made the next day.  The final dough is similar to what we would call an enriched (with fats and egg) bread dough.  I'll try it one day when it gets cool enough to use my indoor oven.  It is too hot now in Denver to use the indoor oven!