Author Topic: Burnt bottom  (Read 746 times)

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Offline crawsdaddy

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Burnt bottom
« on: July 21, 2014, 03:27:55 PM »
I am at a loss. I have been attempting Neapolitan style for the last five years--first using Varasano's  recommendations and then moving to Craig's. I bought a Forno Bravo 60 about a year ago and there began my frustration. When I get the WFO up to 950 and above and the floor about 825-850, the  top cooks perfectly but the bottom burns, especially the rim. For example, yesterday at 950 and 850, the bottom burned within seconds of being inserted. After reading everything posted about this problem, I realize that this is not a unusual problem with oven management and maybe the answer in in the rate of conduction and this oven needs to operate at lower temperatures. I am going to experiment with making rims smaller and reducing heat---does anyone else have suggestions or experience with 60 in dealing with this issue.


Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Burnt bottom
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2014, 03:34:44 PM »
I bake at around 825-850 on the deck, and I can all but guarantee your deck is more conductive than mine. There is a simple fix though - dome the pies when the bottom is done. Lift up a bit of the bottom with the peel and take a quick peek every 10 seconds or so. When the bottom is done, use the peel to finish the baking off the the deck. Quickly drop it back to the deck - turning it as it lands the lift it back to the dome - several times so that you get an even bake.

A small round turning peel makes this much easier:  http://www.gimetalusa.com/shop/small-peels_1_Small%20Peels_.php I make 13" pies typically, and I use an 8" turning peel.
Pizza is not bread.

Offline crawsdaddy

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Re: Burnt bottom
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2014, 04:09:54 PM »
Thanks Craig. I already use the turning peel to dome after about 20 seconds. Maybe I need to experiment with being even quicker but do you think it will be done at that point ? Seems like it burns at same time it bakes. Anyway I will give it a try because even with burnt bottoms they are good. Somewhere (and I can't find it again) on the forum someone suggested using a small water filled teapot to temporarily reduce heat  in landing area. I tried that without any success because area reheated so quickly but I am going to experiment with leaving teapot longer..

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Burnt bottom
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2014, 04:58:15 PM »
Thanks Craig. I already use the turning peel to dome after about 20 seconds. Maybe I need to experiment with being even quicker but do you think it will be done at that point ? Seems like it burns at same time it bakes. Anyway I will give it a try because even with burnt bottoms they are good. Somewhere (and I can't find it again) on the forum someone suggested using a small water filled teapot to temporarily reduce heat  in landing area. I tried that without any success because area reheated so quickly but I am going to experiment with leaving teapot longer..

I don't remember the teapot post, but I remember reading about people using a wet towel to suck out some heat before launching.

My guess is that your pie is probably set enough to lift after about 10 seconds.
Pizza is not bread.

Offline MartyE

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Re: Burnt bottom
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2014, 05:59:45 PM »

Offline tinroofrusted

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Re: Burnt bottom
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2014, 06:59:19 PM »
And I seem to recall Omid recommending the placement of a sheet of metal over the area where you plan launch the pie a few minutes before launch to cool the floor slightly. 

This may be the link I am thinking of:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=14506.msg255657;topicseen#msg255657
« Last Edit: July 21, 2014, 07:04:59 PM by tinroofrusted »

Offline Everlast

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Re: Burnt bottom
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2014, 12:35:23 PM »
On the Primavera 60 (which I no longer own) I always thought 850F was too hot on the deck. I targeted 800F. After initially getting the oven up to temp, the deck was usually around 900F so I would wait for it to drop to 800F or even 750F. Then, I would add a small to medium size piece of wood to get flames lapping up into the top of the dome and then immediately launch a pizza. The key was to get that pizza in there quick because the P60 is such a small oven that the deck temp rises fast. 850F would always burn the pizza. Of course when you rotate the pizza, always put it back in the same spot. After baking a pizza, and the fire has died down slightly, I would scoop out enough red coals to keep the amount of coals down to the same level throughout the night. I kept a metal trash can with a lid nearby. Keeping the pile of coals down also helped with increasing the distance between the pizza and the fire which is also important on a 24"W deck. Once the deck was at 800F again, I'd repeat. Of all the strategies I tested on the P60, this worked the best for me.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2014, 01:27:54 PM by Everlast »

Offline fagilia

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Re: Burnt bottom
« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2014, 04:19:27 PM »
I would do as i did. Put a thin layer of hand made terracotta over the floor. I do believe my floor is almost as good as a any.
Or you can put the terracotta on only a smaller area just for pizza.

Offline SPCo.

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Re: Burnt bottom
« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2014, 06:02:19 PM »
I agree with Craig about putting the pie in the dome, that is really the only way to combat a super hot floor. If you have the extra skins, burn three or four of them with just sauce on them to death, always in the same spot. This really draws some of the heat out of that spot and allows for a little less intensive baking, I like to think of it as stabilizing your baking spot, and then brush it clean, there will still be a slight outline of the pies.  I always do this with two spots in my oven, one for traditional pies a bit deep and one for white pies closer to the door, as they always cook up quicker without the sauce load on them.

Offline crawsdaddy

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Re: Burnt bottom
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2014, 10:16:13 PM »
I would do as i did. Put a thin layer of hand made terracotta over the floor. I do believe my floor is almost as good as a any.
Or you can put the terracotta on only a smaller area just for pizza.

In San Antonio, we have ready access to Saltillo tile and I tried them in my pizza kettle several years ago. They tended to crack when temperatures reached 900 to 1000. But they are inexpensive and maybe I should try them again.


Offline fagilia

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Re: Burnt bottom
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2014, 01:23:28 AM »
The terra cotta i have is just some i found in a store but it was hand made. It will defenitely crack but it does not matter att all. It will be hairline cracks and it will make tiles come even closer to your original tiles. You just have to find a couple of different and put them in the oven and see what happens. Or you could maby even use the tiles shuboye used in his oven if you can find them in thin slabs.
i have had the same problem and it took time to solve it but it was well worth. My oven is home made.

Offline fagilia

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Re: Burnt bottom
« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2014, 01:33:43 AM »
Unfortunately i cant find my oven thread at the moment and i will find out later how to link threads and so on here.
the briks are called low duty firebriks and are recomended by many here. but terra cotta in variations that are thin is easier to find you could buy the and cut the in thin slices. Buy different stones and make tests.

Offline vernonator

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Re: Burnt bottom
« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2014, 09:48:05 AM »
I have a forno bravo primavera 70 (so slightly bigger floor than yours) and have found that I need to rake the coals over to the side and let the floor rest 10-15 min before throwing a pie in. I can then get 4-5 pies cooked perfectly (I have to dome the first 2 as the bottom will cook a bit faster). I then rake the coals back to re-heat the floor for 5 min or so and repeat. Has worked very well for the last two years.... :drool:

Offline axbman

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Re: Burnt bottom
« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2014, 02:34:27 AM »
Remember that there is a difference between the crust cooking and the inside dough cooking. If you have to dome for a large part of the bake time to avoid burnt bottoms, you're less likely to get the ideal balance of inside and outside cooking, also less oven spring

Offline crawsdaddy

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Re: Burnt bottom
« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2014, 09:36:04 PM »
Success. I experimented today using the rest periods as suggested by everlast and vernator. Thanks to them. I Started off at 950 on dome and 850 on floor; after rest period dome was still 950 and floor 775--no burn. I had a tea kettle as suggested by fornograher on hand to experiment with again but wasn't needed today nor was deposing of first pizzas needed. Pizza bottoms were perfect. Tomorrow I am going to crank the initial heat up to over 1000 and the floor to about 850-875 and if I can determine maximum floor heat of this oven can have without burning bottoms. I know that bottoms burn at 850 and don't at 775 so somewhere in between must the max. Also, I thank Craig for encouraging me to check bottoms earlier rather than just blindly allowing pizza to bake.   

Offline crawsdaddy

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Re: Burnt bottom
« Reply #15 on: July 28, 2014, 02:09:25 PM »
Fired the Forno Bravo 60 to over 1000, sides to 900+ and floor to 850 yesterday. I know  why the 15 minute "rest period" mentioned in previous post works. The dome fell to just over 900, the walls to about 890 and the floor to 775. Oven worked nicely on first three pizzas then heat dropped too much to get strong leoparding. Had to refresh heat at that point. Thanks again for help.

Offline thezaman

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Re: Burnt bottom
« Reply #16 on: July 28, 2014, 06:22:58 PM »
i have a p 70 and because the pizza is so close to the flame and the chamber so small you should look at cooking at the upper 775. use small pieces of wood to keep your oven regulated.if you can get 70 to 90 second bakes at that temperature your good . also because the 60 dome is higher you will have to put your pie in the dome to balance the bake. that oven cooks great pies it has to be worked a little to get your results.

Offline crawsdaddy

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Re: Burnt bottom
« Reply #17 on: July 28, 2014, 07:34:14 PM »
i have a p 70 and because the pizza is so close to the flame and the chamber so small you should look at cooking at the upper 775. use small pieces of wood to keep your oven regulated.if you can get 70 to 90 second bakes at that temperature your good . also because the 60 dome is higher you will have to put your pie in the dome to balance the bake. that oven cooks great pies it has to be worked a little to get your results.

Agreed. I have had really good results with the 60 over the last year, except when I tried to cook with the floor at about 850  resulting in burnt bottoms and frustration.  Suggestions from the forum have revised my techniques and have convinced me that a floor 775--800 is right for this oven whereas 850 is probably right for larger ovens. Thanks for your comments, which reinforce the results of my experimentation this last weekend.