Author Topic: Need advise  (Read 1690 times)

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Offline Sartanely

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Need advise
« on: January 07, 2014, 10:21:19 AM »
I am located in Long Island  in five town area and looking to start part time job as a pizza man. I have no experience of working in pizzeria but been making breads and pizzas at home quite long time and able to comprehend things easy.  All the job openings I looked need experienced pizza men. How can I get started? I need this to go some experience as my intention is to go back to my country of origin and open my own place there. If some shop owner or anyone who  sees this post and who is local and gives some incites would be appreciated. I am mostly available from 5pm M to F
Thank 


Offline waltertore

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Re: Need advise
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2014, 10:44:24 AM »
Everyone is in this position at some time(s).   I would find the pizzeria that you consider the best and talk with the owner.  Tell him you are willing to work for free for a week and if he/she doesn't like you work tell them to let go at anytime.  A real pizza lover/owner will easily see what skills and potential you have.  I moved around the country so much as a musician that I was never known in any town because I wasn't there long enough to build a reputation.  I often needed day jobs to survive and I always went first to bakeries/pizzerias and I scored a few jobs this way.   Walter

Offline JD

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Re: Need advise
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2014, 11:14:45 AM »
I would imagine any owner would rather have an inexperienced person full of passion, rather than an experienced person full of arrogance. Not saying it has to be one or the other but hiring someone who is generally interested in their work would pay off in the long run. I agree with Walter, Face to face conversations would be the best.
Josh

Offline Sartanely

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Re: Need advise
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2014, 02:24:51 PM »
Thanks I'll try your approach and see how that'll  work.

Offline weemis

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Re: Need advise
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2014, 03:23:08 PM »
If someone came to me looking for a job in your situation and communicated themselves properly, I'd hire them on the spot.
Nick Gore - just a dough eyed wanderer

Offline waltertore

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Re: Need advise
« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2014, 03:45:53 PM »
If someone came to me looking for a job in your situation and communicated themselves properly, I'd hire them on the spot.

me too and let us know how it goes!  Growing up in the NYC area it was near impossible to get a pizza making job if you were not part of the family or a very close friend.  Today the young people are no longer lining up in the family business to work.  Instead they mostly go to  something other than the pizza business.  So people today that have great pizza making skills and or are  honestly  passionate that they want to learn is a godsend to most pizzerias.  If there are still family run places near you they will be tough to crack but I don't think there are that many left that turn out great pies.   Walter

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Need advise
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2014, 10:52:48 PM »
I don't think you need to offer up a whole week of free work.

I would go in there, fill out the application and if you get to talk to the boss/interview I would say something along the line of      "I would really appreciate a chance to prove myself here, would you consider letting me come in and work for 2 days without pay (short pause) and then we can take it from there?"

Bob
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

scott123

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Re: Need advise
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2014, 01:44:11 AM »
I would find the pizzeria that you consider the best and talk with the owner.  Tell him you are willing to work for free for a week and if he/she doesn't like you work tell them to let go at anytime.  A real pizza lover/owner will easily see what skills and potential you have.

Walter, I sincerely hope I'm wrong about this, but I don't think this approach is going to work. If I did this with Pizzatown, they'd laugh at me.  They are a family (for the most part) shop, but even non family shops tend to stick to close friends that they can trust.  The pizza business has changed over the years, but it is still extremely mistrustful.  Just about every owner, regardless of how crappy their pizza is, tends to guard their recipe like a hawk. If you hire the wrong person, they can steal your recipe and open shop down the street. Believe me, it happens.  If anything, the "I'll work for free/I want to learn" angle will set off alarms and make a naturally suspicious owner even more suspicious.

Sartanely, if I might ask, why do you want to work for a local pizzeria anyway?  You've spent enough time here that I'm sure you're making better pizza than you can get locally, and, even if you feel like you have room for improvement, this is the place to hone those skills, not a local pizzeria- especially not one of the crummy pizzerias in this area.  If you wanted to learn the business, that's also not something you'll do at a pizzeria.  Off the street, no matter who you are or what your skills, they'll be giving you menial tasks.  You won't learn the business side by balling thousands of dough balls or washing floors or dishes.  Again, if you want to learn, the knowledge is here.  This forum is a bit light  when it comes to business knowledge compared to the pizzamaking side, but, compared to entry level work in a pizzeria, this forum is practically a phd in the business of pizza.

Offline waltertore

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Re: Need advise
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2014, 07:12:09 AM »
Hi Scott:  I operate in a different way than most people.  I have gotten close to everyone I have wanted to in music and culinary by simply being myself and letting my passion guide me.  IMO true masters, in the sense of skill in their field, also have a need to pass things on just as they were passed on to them.  My passion has guided me to these people.  Once after a show where I saw Louisiana Red I told him he blew me away.  He asked if I was a musician and I said yes.  He said I could come by  his house anytime.  I said how about now? He said sure and off I went ending up living on his couch and answering knocks on the door that were people like eric burdon and johnny winter, all of whom wanted to visit/jam.  Anyway, this approach works for me and so far I have learned everything I need to know about life to this point via it.   You live in the pizza jungle-survival of only the fittest :)  I know all about the fears there with people stealing your stuff.  It is the toughest areas in the country to break in without inside connections. That is a far cry from what exists elsewhere and what I often read on this forum with new to the field people opening shops.  What I have seen out this way and in my 13 years in CA is a new breed of owner that often is clueless to making pizza and desperate to hire someone who knows.  Sometimes within these shops is someone who really knows their stuff and one can learn a lot.

A local pizza shop here runs a stack of blodgett 1000's and is run by an elderly woman. Her son was suppose to run it but he bailed out.   I went in one day and ordered a pizza.  Seeing those ovens sparked a wealth of memories for me and and I got excited to use them.  I told her I was a pizza maker and could I make my pie?  She said sure and I ended up making pies all evening.  I couldn't get behind her pie so didn't work there but had hoped it would and I could work weekends.   A week later I found my stack of 1000's and had them hauled into my classroom/bakery and we started our pizza operation.  The offer of a weeks work never lasted that long for me. I was hired the first day.  I just offer that to show my sincerity with wanting to be in the field.    Walter
« Last Edit: January 08, 2014, 07:55:50 AM by waltertore »

Offline Sartanely

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Re: Need advise
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2014, 11:35:24 AM »
Walter, I sincerely hope I'm wrong about this, but I don't think this approach is going to work. If I did this with Pizzatown, they'd laugh at me.  They are a family (for the most part) shop, but even non family shops tend to stick to close friends that they can trust.  The pizza business has changed over the years, but it is still extremely mistrustful.  Just about every owner, regardless of how crappy their pizza is, tends to guard their recipe like a hawk. If you hire the wrong person, they can steal your recipe and open shop down the street. Believe me, it happens.  If anything, the "I'll work for free/I want to learn" angle will set off alarms and make a naturally suspicious owner even more suspicious.

Sartanely, if I might ask, why do you want to work for a local pizzeria anyway?  You've spent enough time here that I'm sure you're making better pizza than you can get locally, and, even if you feel like you have room for improvement, this is the place to hone those skills, not a local pizzeria- especially not one of the crummy pizzerias in this area.  If you wanted to learn the business, that's also not something you'll do at a pizzeria.  Off the street, no matter who you are or what your skills, they'll be giving you menial tasks.  You won't learn the business side by balling thousands of dough balls or washing floors or dishes.  Again, if you want to learn, the knowledge is here.  This forum is a bit light  when it comes to business knowledge compared to the pizzamaking side, but, compared to entry level work in a pizzeria, this forum is practically a phd in the business of pizza.

our comment also makes sense.
I think I am making better pies at home now with help of this forum. All my friends and who tied it they admit that the pizza is better than any other local ones. Even my 8 year daughter ranks my pizza second, first being Grimaldi's. I am sure in the country where I am intending to operate pizza shop will be successful business as  pizza is quite new thing there and the pizza they call it is not pizza.
I am looking for part time job to earn some extra and thought by working in pizzeria I'll be able to get some more experience and learn how to work in commercial settings rather than work somewhere else.


Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Need advise
« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2014, 11:54:19 AM »
The offer of a weeks work never lasted that long for me. I was hired the first day.  I just offer that to show my sincerity with wanting to be in the field.    Walter
Yeah, I sorta figured that.
Long, long ago we had a temp. work agency called" Manpower" up North. They'd send you out to places that need extra help for a short term. If I needed a full time job I'd go out on a Manpower assignment and work that day like a madman. 9 times out of 10 I'd be noticed and someone would approach me and ask if I wanted to be hired. It was funny to see them ease into the conversation that I should not let Manpower know what we were doing.  :)
Anyway, maybe you could find something like that  Sartanely?

Bob
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline waltertore

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Re: Need advise
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2014, 12:42:30 PM »
It is great you are wanting commercial experience.  Home pizza making is like another universe.  The  process is technically pretty much the same but the dough management will knock you for a loop without some pro experience.  The seasons, if you have extreme ones, will put your kitchen in a continual flux of temperatures/humidities as will the ever changing tap water temperatures.  Also the day to day business/paperwork/deliveries/prep/oven management, etc makes it a much more demanding puzzle.  That is why so many pizzerias have gone to crap.  They hire unskilled people that aren't really passionate and turn them loose with little to no training.  The converyor oven has keep these places alive.  If they were doing deck ovens they would fold quick. 

Bob:  I worked for manpower many a day when music gigs were thin, I was stuck on the road penniless.   I learned a lot about prison life, drugs, and stealing, in that arena.   I never took a job that I got through manpower because I knew it would only be a few days or so till I quit them but I remember manpower telling us that we cannot take a job from the company if they offer it and to report them.  I wonder if manpower is still around.   The best job I got from them was driving a delivery truck for PPG glass.  I would deliver windshields to various shops from the warehouse in Austin Tx.  The truck had a/c and a radio.  I stuck with that job a few weeks! Walter
« Last Edit: January 08, 2014, 04:37:24 PM by waltertore »

scott123

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Re: Need advise
« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2014, 06:03:37 PM »
Even my 8 year daughter ranks my pizza second, first being Grimaldi's.

No offense, but if you aren't beating out Grimaldi's, it's time to put your nose to the grindstone and work on your home pies.  Where's your bake time at?  What flour are you using? Thickness factor?

It's not NY style, and Greenpoint is a bit of a commute from five towns, but Paulie Gee's has been known to hire motivated and passionate amateurs with little to no experience. He's been grooming partners for a big nationwide expansion for quite some time, and that still might be going on, but he might be able to take you on for a couple hours a week.

You can drop him a line here:

http://pauliegee.com/greenpoint/employment

Definitely mention your participation in this forum. Paulie is one of those rare exceptions to the mistrusting pizzeria owner rule- rather than fearing smart obsessive people, he trains them and partners with them. Paulie is also a really great guy and knows/is friends with EVERYONE. If you told him your situation, perhaps, even if he couldn't give you time at his shop, maybe he could find someone else in the area.

Speaking of Grimaldi's... I believe Craig knows one of the senior people at Juliana's and might be able to put a good word in for you. Maybe.  I think you'd probably learn a thing or two there.

If I owned a shop and saw the pie you made here

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,28672.msg289453.html#msg289453

I'd hire you, but, since it's pretty well known that Paulie hires people without experience, I have no doubt that he's probably got a lot of people knocking on his door.  In addition, Craig is an incredibly nice guy, but I can't make any promises that he'd vouch for you with this friend.  This may come off as a bit blunt, but it wouldn't hurt at all to get some more flattering (read: color correct) shots of your work.  If you're walking into pizzerias talking to pizzeria owners, that's one thing, but if you're dealing with people online, your photos are your resume, and it can't hurt to have them picture perfect.

scott123

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Re: Need advise
« Reply #13 on: January 08, 2014, 06:41:31 PM »
Hi Scott:  I operate in a different way than most people.  I have gotten close to everyone I have wanted to in music and culinary by simply being myself and letting my passion guide me.  IMO true masters, in the sense of skill in their field, also have a need to pass things on just as they were passed on to them.  My passion has guided me to these people.  Once after a show where I saw Louisiana Red I told him he blew me away.  He asked if I was a musician and I said yes.  He said I could come by  his house anytime.  I said how about now? He said sure and off I went ending up living on his couch and answering knocks on the door that were people like eric burdon and johnny winter, all of whom wanted to visit/jam.  Anyway, this approach works for me and so far I have learned everything I need to know about life to this point via it.

Walter, I think you're the living embodiment of karma  ;D You put a lot of faith in the universe, you give/share, and the universe rewards you accordingly.  What you're doing now seems especially altruistic, but it sounds like you've been generous all your life. While I think some people are naturally lucky, I don't think luck has played much of a role in your rich history and present success.  If you give, open and freely, with no ulterior motives, you will live a happy life.  I strive towards that, and sometimes I'm better than other times, but I think you've mastered it.

Offline waltertore

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Re: Need advise
« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2014, 07:30:37 PM »
Hi Scott:  thank you for the kind words.  That means a lot to me.  I grew up on the fringe of the mob scene as a teen.  But it seemed no matter how stupid I was some kind person always intervened and detoured me from going down the wrong roads.  I think my drive to get to the things that were inspiring me saved my life.  You know if some young kid came up to you today and wanted to learn everything from you because they were blindly driven to come to you, you would open up to them.  You do that all the time on this forum. I will forever be a little kid when something moves me.   Right now it is still music, special needs people, and pizza/baking.  None would be fullfilling alone but in symphony they give me all I could ever dream of (my wife of 35 years too :) )  I love sharing what I know and don't fear anybody stealing from me if they have the true passion in their heart. I am pretty good seeing this and have to open my heart because so many have opened theirs to mine.  I learned from the old blues guys, lightning hopkins in particular, about this.   When we played rock stars would fill the small clubs (tramps in NYC at that time was the place).  I asked if he ever got mad over these superstars stealing his licks, amping/speeding them up and there you got eric clapton who makes more in a minute than he did in year.   He said no way because when lightning plays there is only 1 lighting and having these guys come to learn from him meant everything to his heart.  I was talking with Ray Charles one night and when I asked where he lived he told me in a small apt. I asked why he didn't have a big mansion. He said brother Ray can sit in 1 chair at a time, one bed at a time and one toilet at a time.  So why have more than that?  I learned much for the old blues guys with this.  Lightning had his small 2 bdrm house in Houston and he also would say who needs more than that?  I am thankful I live this way too.  Basically the more crap/space/stuff we own the more of our time it takes up.  That is why I would never have an interst in opening a high volume/multiple shops. Anthony of Una Pizza really moved me with his choice of how to do life in the pizza universe.  He, like me, figured out his comfort level and went full speed ahead to make it a reality.  For me, simple living leaves so much time for creativity and relationships and that is being a millionare to me.  I have been around big money.  It is tempting but I would never want to have to waste so much time managing the empire :)

I am not sure I am wording things right.  I do better in the flesh but again thank you and I look forward to meeting you someday over a great pizza.  I talked with my brother tonight that lived about 20 years in Morristown and now lives in Pompton Lakes.  He told me about Tony's in pompton lakes.  He orders his pies well done and his family loves them.  Do you know of that place? I asked how it rates next to Resivoir in Booton.  My sister lives there and raves about it.  He said they were there the other day after they all went to the seton hall vs. creighton game.  He said Resiviour is a good pie but he prefers Tony's or star tavern.  I love that about back home how people get thier place and go to it to the day they die.  Walter
« Last Edit: January 08, 2014, 07:44:58 PM by waltertore »

Offline amanyrabie

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Re: Need advise
« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2014, 02:02:50 AM »
I don't think you need to offer up a whole week of free work.

I would go in there, fill out the application and if you get to talk to the boss/interview I would say something along the line of      "I would really appreciate a chance to prove myself here, would you consider letting me come in and work for 2 days without pay (short pause) and then we can take it from there?"

Bob

I agree with u bob that is what I did before

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Need advise
« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2014, 12:38:24 PM »
I agree with u bob that is what I did before
That's great Rob...good for you!   8)

Was this job at a pizzeria and, if so, would you mind telling us what city it was in?
Thank you.

Bob
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline bigMoose

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Re: Need advise
« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2014, 09:32:55 AM »
I've got to throw this in about Walter and the "karma thing..."

Yesterday a friend who I have been mentoring in pizza making asked to come over and make pizza with me.  He said that after writing down my instructions and recipe cards he could not replicate my pies.  He is a coffee roaster, and he came with a few roasts, his coffee grinder, and his brew equipment.  My kitchen was filled with joy, fellowship, the fragrance of fresh roast coffee and pizza!

Through the process, he kept saying, "my pizza dough doesn't look like this."  "Oh, that's how you do it." "Oh, you didn't write that down..."

Where did I learn from?  From experience in Walter's kitchen a bit before Christmas!  Walter taught me, and in reality, Walter is now teaching my friends through me.  I am no where as good as Walter, but I am trying to be as gracious as he was!  It's a great thing to pass on what you have learned... and now I have learned the right way to grind coffee beans and how to brew in an Aeropress.

Offline waltertore

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Re: Need advise
« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2014, 12:36:15 PM »
Bigmoose:  Thanks for those kind words.  That was beautiful.  I learned much our day.  I love being involved in the sharing and learning in a real life, real time, in the flesh, situation.  You and anyone you know are welcome here anytime.  Walter

Here is a shot of you and your wife from that dayl
« Last Edit: January 10, 2014, 12:46:51 PM by waltertore »

Offline bigMoose

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Re: Need advise
« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2014, 08:31:22 PM »
Thanks for the pix Walter, and congratulations on the compliments you received today in this thread: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,29557.0.html  When a customer drives nearly 100 miles R/T for your pizzas it is a sincere statement as to the quality of your products!

BTW I am working on adding your NY style pie to my repertoire.  I purchased a can of 7/11 just for this style... and I will force myself to keep it "simple and pure" letting the tomatoes, dough and basil speak for themselves.

Have you ever used Mama Isabella's pepperoni from RD?  I am trying a 5lb lot.  It seems to have a nice seasoning to it.  It is the curl and crisp version.  I am now microwaving it for about 30 seconds on paper towels to pull a bit of the grease out before putting it on the pizza.


 

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