Author Topic: Special technique for this pizza crust?  (Read 3289 times)

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Offline tourmaline

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Re: Special technique for this pizza crust?
« Reply #20 on: January 22, 2014, 04:11:05 AM »
Wow. Someone PMed me, announcing to me the name & address of my beloved pizza place with complete confidence, which they had figured out through the 2 hints that I provided. I almost fell out of my chair!!! Amazing.

Norma, thanks for linking to those pictures! I knew I had posted quite a few.
When I go back to FSA I will ask them about the frequency of their cheddar buying. I know they do have a salad bar, so that could also be why they might buy cheddar, since some people like shredded cheddar on salads.
I will seek out the Cracker Barrel White Cheddar. I'm excited to try mixing white cheddar with Grande. Thank you for the recommendation.
Bottom of crust is not flaky, it's just normal. The texture of the crust tastes normal in every way, you wouldn't know you were eating a layered crust unless you looked at the cross-section. But the crust is aromatic with a slightly scorched  smell I've noticed, which may be facilitated in some way by the layers.

Ryan, sorry but it's not in California or Oregon.
I'm surprised you didn't attempt my riddle, when you specifically asked me to create such cryptic hints.  Oh well, someone else already got it, so you would no longer win first prize anyway.  :P
What city in East Los Angeles county is your friend in?  My family is originally from Whittier, which is a really cute and charming little city, but I've never lived there myself.

Zing, thanks for the info and link! The Cash & Carry store in my city has access to Rumiano, they told me.


Offline norma427

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Re: Special technique for this pizza crust?
« Reply #21 on: January 22, 2014, 08:00:18 AM »
Wow. Someone PMed me, announcing to me the name & address of my beloved pizza place with complete confidence, which they had figured out through the 2 hints that I provided. I almost fell out of my chair!!! Amazing.

Norma, thanks for linking to those pictures! I knew I had posted quite a few.
When I go back to FSA I will ask them about the frequency of their cheddar buying. I know they do have a salad bar, so that could also be why they might buy cheddar, since some people like shredded cheddar on salads.
I will seek out the Cracker Barrel White Cheddar. I'm excited to try mixing white cheddar with Grande. Thank you for the recommendation.
Bottom of crust is not flaky, it's just normal. The texture of the crust tastes normal in every way, you wouldn't know you were eating a layered crust unless you looked at the cross-section. But the crust is aromatic with a slightly scorched  smell I've noticed, which may be facilitated in some way by the layers.


Zoe,

I am glad a member sent you a PM and figured out the name and address of your beloved pizzeria.  ;D  That is amazing a member could figure that out with your clues.  That member might be able to help you to clone your pizza.

I guess it does not pay to post too much information when trying to clone a pizza.  I have posted way too much information when I went on cloning missions.    :-D

Thanks for explaining the crust.  The crust sure does look interesting.

Norma
« Last Edit: January 22, 2014, 11:39:40 AM by norma427 »
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Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Special technique for this pizza crust?
« Reply #22 on: January 22, 2014, 10:35:37 AM »
Thanks Norma.

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Special technique for this pizza crust?
« Reply #23 on: January 22, 2014, 10:50:31 AM »
Ryan, sorry but it's not in California or Oregon.
I'm surprised you didn't attempt my riddle, when you specifically asked me to create such cryptic hints.  Oh well, someone else already got it, so you would no longer win first prize anyway.  :P
What city in East Los Angeles county is your friend in?  My family is originally from Whittier, which is a really cute and charming little city, but I've never lived there myself.

I guess since I knew I couldn't make an accurate guess based only on the two hints, I didn't even try. Based on one of the hints, I feel pretty confident saying you're in one of those two reefer states (not Colorado).

My friend is in Pomona. I know I've seen Whittier on the map a million times, but I've never been there.

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Special technique for this pizza crust?
« Reply #24 on: January 22, 2014, 11:06:18 AM »
I'm surprised you didn't attempt my riddle, when you specifically asked me to create such cryptic hints. told me.

To be clear, I wasn't asking for a riddle. I was asking for hints that would easily help us figure out what pizzeria you're talking about, but without anyone having to use terms that would make this thread show up on a Google search conducted by the pizzeria's owner.

It doesn't take much effort to figure out (with complete certainty) the name of the pizzeria I alluded to. Still, this thread will never show up in any kind of internet search for that pizzeria (unless someone reveals the name of this place later in the thread, which is fine with me).


Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Special technique for this pizza crust?
« Reply #25 on: January 22, 2014, 11:13:13 AM »
I don't get what all the secrecy is all about....you're just a customer there, right Zoe? Is the owner a Pizza Nazi and going to ban you?
" Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery."

Bob
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Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Special technique for this pizza crust?
« Reply #26 on: January 22, 2014, 11:27:08 AM »
Yeah, and as I just learned by reading one of the threads Norma linked to, at least one person brought this up a few months ago, then that thread immediately died and has not been touched in three months. And at least three of us have brought this up in this thread.

If you don't ever want to receive any answers to the questions you've asked, keep being secretive.

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Special technique for this pizza crust?
« Reply #27 on: January 22, 2014, 12:11:26 PM »


Chicago Bob: Sorry, but I never reveal the name/location of this pizzeria on this forum. The reason is because I know this forum's posts show up in Google searches, and I don't want the owner to find the name of his pizzeria on this forum and see that someone is trying to copy their pizza. They're already paranoid enough as it is!
OK...just found this above post.

Please tell me Zoe; why have you now become "paranoid", is there maybe something bad in that guys pizza?  ;D  You might want to reconsider cloning it!

If they are so paranoid and won't share any clues with you then why in the world would you care what they might "see" on the internet? Do you fear that if they "find out" someone is "watching them very closely" they will quickly close their "hallowed" doors and secretly remain trapped behind their knowledge for Eternity, denying you your favored pizza pie?

If I wanted that pizza I would not give a rats arse about those folks and would try to give full disclosure to as many pizza intellect I could attract here on this site.

You are going about this all backwards IMO friend.
Tricks are for kids!  ::)

Bob
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: Special technique for this pizza crust?
« Reply #28 on: January 22, 2014, 12:31:07 PM »
Just to add a little fuel to the fire, a number of years ago a number of wholesale pizza manufacturers were offering pizzas made on what they called either a croissant or Italian pastry type of crust. I've got slides of it in my old pizza presentation materials. When we replicated the crusts we were able to do so in a manner already described, that is by sheeting the dough thin, brushing it with a very light coating of oil and then folding the dough to get the laminations. This was repeated a number of times until the finished crusts had a similar appearance, much like the pictures provided. We were also able to replicate the crust characteristics using what is called a dry laminating procedure which is how saltine crackers are made. The dough is sheeted very thin, allowed to dry/skin over (with the help of IR heaters and fans) and then folded/laminated to achieve the desired internal structure. The last method we used was to incorporate hard fat flakes into the dough which also worked very well. By this method the dough is made a little softer than normal and hard fat flakes are added to the dough during the last few minutes of mixing, the dough can be used as it is, but best results were had when the dough was given a single lamination. If anyone ever spent time working in a retail bakery you might recognize that method as the "blitz" method on making pastry dough.
One of these methods was so successful at replicating the target product so as to earn me a visit by two corporate attorneys representing the company producing the target crust. No, they did not have a case and I was not sued for giving away their trade secrets, but in view of the attention I drew from them, I must have been awfully close to what they were actually doing.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Special technique for this pizza crust?
« Reply #29 on: January 22, 2014, 12:45:03 PM »
...trapped behind their knowledge...

Love it.


Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Special technique for this pizza crust?
« Reply #30 on: January 22, 2014, 12:46:59 PM »
Great info Tom...thank you. I've never heard of the "dry laminating procedure" before. I was thinking the first pic at the top of this thread looked like some pretty dry dough....maybe that's "the big secret".  :)


Bob
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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Special technique for this pizza crust?
« Reply #31 on: January 22, 2014, 12:48:32 PM »
Love it.
Yeah...I added that lil tidbit just for you Ryan. Knew you's remember that guy!  :-D

Bob
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Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Special technique for this pizza crust?
« Reply #32 on: January 22, 2014, 12:53:47 PM »
Apparently that guy must have actually found a way to physically trap himself behind knowledge, because I don't think he has refused to share any of his valuable insight in a couple years.

Offline norma427

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Re: Special technique for this pizza crust?
« Reply #33 on: January 22, 2014, 01:20:29 PM »
Just to add a little fuel to the fire, a number of years ago a number of wholesale pizza manufacturers were offering pizzas made on what they called either a croissant or Italian pastry type of crust. I've got slides of it in my old pizza presentation materials. When we replicated the crusts we were able to do so in a manner already described, that is by sheeting the dough thin, brushing it with a very light coating of oil and then folding the dough to get the laminations. This was repeated a number of times until the finished crusts had a similar appearance, much like the pictures provided. We were also able to replicate the crust characteristics using what is called a dry laminating procedure which is how saltine crackers are made. The dough is sheeted very thin, allowed to dry/skin over (with the help of IR heaters and fans) and then folded/laminated to achieve the desired internal structure. The last method we used was to incorporate hard fat flakes into the dough which also worked very well. By this method the dough is made a little softer than normal and hard fat flakes are added to the dough during the last few minutes of mixing, the dough can be used as it is, but best results were had when the dough was given a single lamination. If anyone ever spent time working in a retail bakery you might recognize that method as the "blitz" method on making pastry dough.
One of these methods was so successful at replicating the target product so as to earn me a visit by two corporate attorneys representing the company producing the target crust. No, they did not have a case and I was not sued for giving away their trade secrets, but in view of the attention I drew from them, I must have been awfully close to what they were actually doing.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor


Very interesting information Tom.  8) Could you tell us what hard fat flakes are?  I never heard of the "blitz" method in making pastry dough. 

Norma
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Offline fazzari

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Re: Special technique for this pizza crust?
« Reply #34 on: January 23, 2014, 01:23:07 AM »
Hey all....after catching the pictures of this mysterious pizza, I thought I'd give it a whirl.  From the looks it really isn't that thin....but here is the plan I used.  I took a piece of dough and sheeted it extremely thin.  I then folded it up into a 7 layer piece.  This was again sheeted very thin.  I then applied a thin coating of oil on the sheet and again folded into a 7 layer piece.  I sheeted this piece, but not too thin, just enough to get one piece of dough and to make about one quarter inch.  I cut out my skins and refrigerated overnight.  After baking and tasting, I think the process could be done without the layer of oil....if one uses laminated sheets, and laminates those (not too tightly), I think you can get the same results.  The pizza by the way, was delicious.  The bottom was crisp, and your top teeth don't feel like they touch anything until they get to the very bottom.  By the way, if you look closely, at the individual laminated sheets within the crust itself, you can see why laminated doughs can be so tender.....look at all of the tiny pinholes......yes!
John

Offline tourmaline

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Re: Special technique for this pizza crust?
« Reply #35 on: January 23, 2014, 02:29:04 AM »
Fazzari: The crust looks beautiful. That's the closest to the pics I've posted that I've seen by a non-restaurant pizza.

Dough Doctor: Thanks for the interesting post. You're lucky it was just lawyers, Norma has posted articles about murders and violence linked to cheese and pizzeria secrets on the Eastern Seaboard. Scary stuff!!

Norma: Thank you for you for being so nice. The person who PMed me has never been to the restaurant, he was just a really good and clever researcher!
I bought the Cracker Barrel Vermont White Sharp Cheddar today and will start experimenting with it tomorrow evening probably. I love cheddar so even if it doesn't work on my pizzas I can always use it on crackers.  :)

Chicago Bob & Ryan:
Come on you guys, chill out. Your posts are coming close to rudeness, and for what reason? I stated very logically in Reply #6 why it would not be a good idea for me to disclose this restaurant on the board right now when I still want to do some snooping in their bin in hopes of finding info. Yet you guys keep belaboring this issue over and over again. And going back into my old posts, throwing it in my face that my old thread ďdidnít take off,Ē Ryan? Play nice. I know that I have a very solid point about why I don't want to name the place, even if you don't think so.
You just keep pressing and pressing, unwilling to let this go.  I am not insulting people by not revealing this place, and yet yíall are acting like Iíve offended you deeply or b!tch-slapped your mother or something.

Chicago Bob, youíre just now seeing that response I wrote to you? I wrote that nearly 2 weeks ago. So what would have been the point of me responding with the name of the pizzeria when it seems you donít even go back and follow up on questions you ask. And I'm going about this backward? You don't think that I can find much more information by looking at the packaging this restaurant uses than I could on a forum where the chances that a regular member is familiar with and has knowledge of this restaurant's pizza is extremely slim (since I'm from a small city in a rural region out West)? I don't think I'm going about it all wrong, I think I'm going about this right. You just don't like it because no one likes being denied information they ask about, and plus you're jumping on Ryan's "Let's give Zoe a hard time" bandwagon.

Guys, I have posted on this forum about my misadventures with this pizzeria because I like the advice it elicits and I assume that maybe one or two people might find it amusing or interesting. I will not do that anymore. If I post again on the forum it will be about my experiences with flour, crushed tomatoes or cheeses. I wonít be bringing up or providing photos of this particular restaurant because it seems that their pizza provokes a savage madness in people, driving them to fits of  desire, paroxysms of pleasure, and flirtations with rudeness.  lol
But seriously, itís not worth it. I'll continue my quest on my own.

Offline RockyMountainPie

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Re: Special technique for this pizza crust?
« Reply #36 on: January 23, 2014, 03:21:11 AM »
John.  Way to go man!  I was hoping you would weigh in here.  I knew you could easily make a pizza as good or better than the "mystery" pizza.  Yours looks fantastic!

Any thread on laminated pizza has my full attention, but this one sure is different.


Tim
« Last Edit: January 23, 2014, 12:03:10 PM by RockyMountainPie »

Offline norma427

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Re: Special technique for this pizza crust?
« Reply #37 on: January 23, 2014, 08:15:03 AM »
Hey all....after catching the pictures of this mysterious pizza, I thought I'd give it a whirl.  From the looks it really isn't that thin....but here is the plan I used.  I took a piece of dough and sheeted it extremely thin.  I then folded it up into a 7 layer piece.  This was again sheeted very thin.  I then applied a thin coating of oil on the sheet and again folded into a 7 layer piece.  I sheeted this piece, but not too thin, just enough to get one piece of dough and to make about one quarter inch.  I cut out my skins and refrigerated overnight.  After baking and tasting, I think the process could be done without the layer of oil....if one uses laminated sheets, and laminates those (not too tightly), I think you can get the same results.  The pizza by the way, was delicious.  The bottom was crisp, and your top teeth don't feel like they touch anything until they get to the very bottom.  By the way, if you look closely, at the individual laminated sheets within the crust itself, you can see why laminated doughs can be so tender.....look at all of the tiny pinholes......yes!
John

Wow John, that laminated crust of yours looks fantastic!  ;D Great job!  :chef: Are you going to start another thread of what baker's percents you used for your dough? I sure would like to try a laminated crust like you posted.  I don't see any signs of docking.  Is that right?

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: Special technique for this pizza crust?
« Reply #38 on: January 23, 2014, 08:26:00 AM »

Norma: White Sharp Cheddar today and will start experimenting with it tomorrow evening probably. I love cheddar so even if it doesn't work on my pizzas I can always use it on crackers.  :)


Zoe,

The Cracker Barrel White Cheddar is not the only white cheddar you could play around with.  There are other white cheddars in our area but I don't know what brand of white cheddars your local supermarkets carry.

A couple of times I had luck in purchasing mozzarella from a local pizzeria by telling them I really liked their cheese on their pizzas and I wanted to know if I could purchase some to make Lasagna, but really used it to make pizza.  I don't know if that would work for you or not.

Norma
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Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: Special technique for this pizza crust?
« Reply #39 on: January 23, 2014, 10:11:56 AM »
Norma;
Hard fat flakes are (I'm going to use a bad word her, so look away in you will be offended) heavily "HYDROGENATED" fats that due to the hydrogenation process are now very hard, much like soap flakes in both size and appearance (do you remember American Family soap flakes?) I'm dating myself here and anyone else who admits to remember them. These hard fat flakes are added to the dough in much the same manner as raisins are added to a raisin bread dough. The result is a mixture of fat flakes and dough which imparts the appearance of a laminated dough. The BLITZ method of making pastry calls for taking butter and cutting it up into small pieces, about the size of a cherry pit on the small end and about the size of the cherry on the large end. The butter is then refrigerated to completely harden it, the dough is mixed in the normal manner and about 5-minutes before the mixing is complete the frozen butter is added and mixed just to distribute the butter pieces throughout the dough mass. The amount of butter added to the dough in this case is the same as the amount of roll-in that would typically be used in making Danish, about 20 to 25% of the dough weight before addition of the butter. The dough is then given one or two foldings for lamination and the process is complete. This eliminates the need to roll the dough, add the roll-in fat, fold the dough, rest the dough, roll it again, give it a laminating fold (3-fold or 4-fold), resting the dough, rolling it again, give it another laminating fold, rest the dough, and then take it to the bench for forming into pastries. As you can see, this is a lot of work as others here have already alluded to. I'm sure you can Google the process for more details. If anyone is looking for the hard fat flakes I think Bungee (Kankakee, Illinois) is still a supplier as is ConAgra Foods.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor


 

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