Author Topic: "Good pizzas are 90% oven" "conveyor ovens are not great" Oven primer for newb  (Read 23341 times)

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Offline jsaras

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The general idea of reducing the hydration makes sense.  How would you adjust the following formulation:

High Gluten Flour - 100%
Water - 60%
Salt - 2%
Sugar - 3%
Oil - 3%
IDY - variable
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Offline JConk007

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IF I was in this to make alot of money  ;D I would consider the XLT bad boy showm below
I think they can make a good pizza as well with the proper dough . Many, NOT ALL , who buy  franchise joints have no clue how to make pizza Hence the francise set up with whatever comes with... The ones that do like assman do quite well and can crank out a great product with I assume High margin and little error. 
They had this at expo last year and it is 1 mean mahine bad ass oven  !! PRODUCTION and HUGE pizza can come out they are kinda fun. Grew up on Pizza hut pan so Used to work for me til I found the fire!  >:D
However ... I sampled many a conveyor pizza at expo from the conveyors and was even there when the owners of a NY Joint in Vegas brought in their dough and tried to cox a NY style out of their deck oven dough I spent about an hour and 5 small slices there.
No Go ! tried every pan and disc and ... but just could not do it
All ovens are good depending on everything that has been Mentioned already
But would prefer if you all bought  an Acunto from Me  ;)
had to plug them sorry
« Last Edit: February 16, 2014, 10:09:33 AM by JConk007 »
I Love to Flirt with Fire! www.flirtingwithfirepizza.com

Offline Assman22

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The general idea of reducing the hydration makes sense.  How would you adjust the following formulation:

High Gluten Flour - 100%
Water - 60%
Salt - 2%
Sugar - 3%
Oil - 3%
IDY - variable

Depends, what type of crust you're going for?  This isn't your current dough formula is it?  Regardless, I'd at least start by reducing your water percent by 10-15%. 

Also, where are you making pizzas?  Dough formulas will need to be skewed depending on your altitude.  Lots of folks try to use a recipe online and hope it turns out exactly like it does in pictures.  Too many variables involved throughout the country and world to rely strictly on just the recipe.  Water quality varies greatly, flour types/brands, oil types/brands, yeast types/brands, etc. 

Hope this helps and please let me know if you have any other questions.

Offline jsaras

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I just chose a variation of Big Dave Ostrander's "Old Faithful".  As there has been several million pounds of thay dough made I figured that a lot of it went through conveyor ovens.

The location is Los Angeles.
Things have never been more like today than they are right now.

Offline jsaras

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Today, I decided to try a low hydration dough:

Pendleton Power Flour -100%
Water - 52%
IDY - 0.25%
Salt - 1.73%
Oil - 1.07%
Sugar - 2%

The dough fermented for four hours at a room temperature of 70 degrees.  I think that the closest analog I can get to a conveyor oven at home is baking on a screen.

The pizza took a bit to stretch, but I got it there.  I baked at 490 degrees for 8 minutes.   The result was a nearly perfect clone of a very crappy pizza place nearby that uses a conveyor oven!  Pale, and a bit of a gum line that wasn't that gummy.   The crumb was ultra dense.

The reason I tried this is that I'm hoping to do an "intervention" at that local pizza place by asking them to bake one of my dough balls.  This formulation isn't going to do it.

Perhaps using a hearth bake disc would get it closer to a good result?
« Last Edit: February 18, 2014, 04:31:20 PM by jsaras »
Things have never been more like today than they are right now.

Offline Tampa

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IF I was in this to make alot of money  ;D I would consider the XLT bad boy showm below
I think they can make a good pizza as well with the proper dough . Many, NOT ALL , who buy  franchise joints have no clue how to make pizza Hence the francise set up with whatever comes with... The ones that do like assman do quite well and can crank out a great product with I assume High margin and little error. 
They had this at expo last year and it is 1 mean mahine bad ass oven  !! PRODUCTION and HUGE pizza can come out they are kinda fun. Grew up on Pizza hut pan so Used to work for me til I found the fire!  >:D
However ... I sampled many a conveyor pizza at expo from the conveyors and was even there when the owners of a NY Joint in Vegas brought in their dough and tried to cox a NY style out of their deck oven dough I spent about an hour and 5 small slices there.
No Go ! tried every pan and disc and ... but just could not do it
All ovens are good depending on everything that has been Mentioned already
But would prefer if you all bought  an Acunto from Me  ;)
had to plug them sorry
Thanks for the honest assessment.  I didn't know about this oven before.
Dave

Offline scash2014

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I worked at a Pizza Hut for a while. We had a 3 deck conveyor oven. I'm not positive, but Middleby Marshall seems awfully familiar.

I used to bring in my own food to cook on occasion. Even my own pizza. It ruined pretty much everything I attempted to cook in it. Dried it out. It ran at around 430 degrees. We used to get complaints about the more loaded pizzas, like meat lover's a super supreme being doughy in the middle.


It was impossible to cook a high quality pie with that oven the way it was calibrated.

Offline Assman22

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Today, I decided to try a low hydration dough:

Pendleton Power Flour -100%
Water - 52%
IDY - 0.25%
Salt - 1.73%
Oil - 1.07%
Sugar - 2%

The dough fermented for four hours at a room temperature of 70 degrees.  I think that the closest analog I can get to a conveyor oven at home is baking on a screen.

The pizza took a bit to stretch, but I got it there.  I baked at 490 degrees for 8 minutes.   The result was a nearly perfect clone of a very crappy pizza place nearby that uses a conveyor oven!  Pale, and a bit of a gum line that wasn't that gummy.   The crumb was ultra dense.

The reason I tried this is that I'm hoping to do an "intervention" at that local pizza place by asking them to bake one of my dough balls.  This formulation isn't going to do it.

Perhaps using a hearth bake disc would get it closer to a good result?

Jonas,

Try reducing water another 5%, increase salt to 2.3%, and use ADY for a dough to be used in a conveyor oven. You won't get the same bake as a conveyor oven or even a similar bake in a home oven.  The conveyor oven is much more intense with it's radiant heat distribution than a convection/conventional oven. 

Screens are used for soft doughs and making an American style crust like chains make:  i.e. Papa John's.  I use a perforated pan for thin crust and the standard 2 inch deep dish pans for deep dish.  I only use screens for calzones/strombolis/garlic knots/cheesy bread/etc.  Not for pizzas.  I like it crispy on the outside, chewy on the inside. 

As far as the color being pale, there are several options you could try in order to get what you want.  Egg Shade (food coloring) works well.  I like adding semolina or corn flour myself, roughly 20% of the flour. 

If you want to have a crispier crust using your dough, try panning the pizza crust, doc the dough, and put it in for a short run in your conveyor oven.  Add toppings and then give it a full run.  Another thing you can do is once the pizza does a full run, take it out of the pan and put it back in the conveyor for a short naked run.

Again, dough formulas all depend on where you are and what you're wanting to do.  A big factor in dough formula is the type of water you use.  Water in Chicago, New York, Tampa, LA, Denver, etc are all different.  This is why you'll often hear about pizza places in LA trying to mimic NY style or Chicago style by importing the water from one of the cities.  San Francisco for example, has softer and very clean water coming from Yosemite as opposed to Chicago.  I had to take my dough formulas and use trial and error in order to get the dough I had in Chicago for San Francisco. 

Lastly, to scash2014:  Pizza Hut sucks, their dough sucks, everything they use sucks.  Can't used Pizza Hut experience as a barometer to depict a conveyor oven, just like any other chain that uses them. 

You just need to right dough formula and have to put certain toppings under the cheese so they don't dry out.  Also, when baking "more loaded" or 3+ topping-pizzas in a conveyor, it's wise to start with a short run, then a long run.  More specifically, take a standard Supreme pizza for example.  Doc the dough, add the sauce, sausage, mushrooms, and green peppers and do a short run(half run) in the conveyor.  Then, add the cheese, pepperoni, onions, and black olives and do a full run. 

Offline jsaras

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Thanks Assman22 for your detailed response.  Everything you've said makes sense, but the hydration, 48% total, for a high gluten flour seems exceptionally low.  Even at 53% total I thought it was drier than a cat's ass.   Is the crust cracker-like?
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Offline pythonic

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Thanks Assman22 for your detailed response.  Everything you've said makes sense, but the hydration, 48% total, for a high gluten flour seems exceptionally low.  Even at 53% total I thought it was drier than a cat's ass.   Is the crust cracker-like?

I was gonna say wow that is low myself.
If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball.

Offline Assman22

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Thanks Assman22 for your detailed response.  Everything you've said makes sense, but the hydration, 48% total, for a high gluten flour seems exceptionally low.  Even at 53% total I thought it was drier than a cat's ass.   Is the crust cracker-like?

My apologies Jonas, I left out "increase Oil to 3.03%" in the first line when I was editing, sorry buddy.  Let us know how it turns out.

Offline jsaras

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 Assman22, if I may ask you one final question - what flour have you used at this hydration?
Things have never been more like today than they are right now.