Author Topic: Anyone ever tried 54 water/15 oil for deep dish?  (Read 1439 times)

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Offline pythonic

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Anyone ever tried 54 water/15 oil for deep dish?
« on: January 17, 2014, 12:11:39 PM »
Giving it a shot this afternoon.
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Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Anyone ever tried 54 water/15 oil for deep dish?
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2014, 12:59:54 PM »
I think I've done something very close to that. Seems like I documented it somewhere, like maybe one of my earlier blog posts. I'll dig through them later. If I find anything, I'll post a link. But only after you share your results, so I don't stand a chance at influencing your thoughts.
Ryan
http://www.ryanspizzablog.blogspot.com

Disclaimer: Don't necessarily believe anything I say here. My brain ain't quite right anymore (unless it is). If I come off as rude or argumentative, that's probably not my intention. Rather, that's just me being honest, to myself and everyone else; partly because I don't have enough time left to BS either you or myself. If you are offended by anything I say, it's probably because you think lying to people (to be "polite") is a good idea. I don't.

Offline pythonic

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Re: Anyone ever tried 54 water/15 oil for deep dish?
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2014, 02:56:23 PM »
Not bad all.  Quite liked it actually.  The dough is lighter and has a moister feel to it.

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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Anyone ever tried 54 water/15 oil for deep dish?
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2014, 03:32:55 PM »
Not bad all.  Quite liked it actually.  The dough is lighter and has a moister feel to it.
Crust looks killer Nate...good job! Beautiful pics too. How old was that dough?  :chef:
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Offline pythonic

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Re: Anyone ever tried 54 water/15 oil for deep dish?
« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2014, 03:36:44 PM »
Crust looks killer Nate...good job! Beautiful pics too. How old was that dough?  :chef:

About 3hrs
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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Anyone ever tried 54 water/15 oil for deep dish?
« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2014, 04:05:51 PM »
About 3hrs
Saaweeet!  ;D
I want to try that one right now....what's the rest of the formula, AP or BF?
Thankls!  :chef:

Got new toms from Costco...Nina brand.
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Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Anyone ever tried 54 water/15 oil for deep dish?
« Reply #6 on: January 17, 2014, 04:12:21 PM »
Got new toms from Costco...Nina brand.

Ick.

(That was for Bob. Pizza looks great.)
Ryan
http://www.ryanspizzablog.blogspot.com

Disclaimer: Don't necessarily believe anything I say here. My brain ain't quite right anymore (unless it is). If I come off as rude or argumentative, that's probably not my intention. Rather, that's just me being honest, to myself and everyone else; partly because I don't have enough time left to BS either you or myself. If you are offended by anything I say, it's probably because you think lying to people (to be "polite") is a good idea. I don't.

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Anyone ever tried 54 water/15 oil for deep dish?
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2014, 04:17:03 PM »
Ick.

(That was for Bob. Pizza looks great.)
Thanks, knew it was too good to be true....they were cheap, cheap....can looks pretty cool though. I'll crack one open though just to check....bought smaller individuals instead of the #10's.
Still have cento certifieds on hand...amazon sends a case every 3 months at pretty good price. 

Bob
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Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Anyone ever tried 54 water/15 oil for deep dish?
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2014, 04:24:09 PM »
They might be great for all I know. But every time I've had them, they were very watery and I guess what you might call flimsy. That is, not strong and fleshy like what you get from Cento or Stanislaus whole tomatoes.
Ryan
http://www.ryanspizzablog.blogspot.com

Disclaimer: Don't necessarily believe anything I say here. My brain ain't quite right anymore (unless it is). If I come off as rude or argumentative, that's probably not my intention. Rather, that's just me being honest, to myself and everyone else; partly because I don't have enough time left to BS either you or myself. If you are offended by anything I say, it's probably because you think lying to people (to be "polite") is a good idea. I don't.


Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Anyone ever tried 54 water/15 oil for deep dish?
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2014, 04:37:16 PM »
OK Nate, I found the blog post that mentions the time I made a similar formula as what you used today. Here's exactly what I said (very far down the post, toward the end):

Quote
Update (10/6/12): The dough formula I used for the most recent batch of dough is as follows:

100% Meijer AP flour
52% Water
0.6% ADY
0.7% Salt
16% Corn oil

This dough is good (even using generic flour), but it needs a little work. It hasn't bled oil like the realdeepdish.com formula did, which is good. However, it is more elastic than it should be. Considering these things, I'm going to increase the oil percentage to 20% for the next batch, while leaving the hydration (water) percentage at 52%.

As I mentioned earlier, I suspect 20% oil is the upper limit of how much oil should be used in this kind of dough. So if this dough oozes oil, I'll know the oil percentage should be less than 20% (but more than 16%).

Honestly, the formula in this update is very good; It's just not perfect. Mainly it's too elastic. And I can always tell by watching videos of Marc Malnati that Malnati's dough is not remotely elastic.
I haven't even read the quoted text yet, except for the formula. I just copied and pasted the text located between the horizontal rules in the blog post update. I'm curious to find out what I had to say about this pizza. Don't know if I have any pics, but I may look through old pictures for dates that match the date I made that pizza.
Ryan
http://www.ryanspizzablog.blogspot.com

Disclaimer: Don't necessarily believe anything I say here. My brain ain't quite right anymore (unless it is). If I come off as rude or argumentative, that's probably not my intention. Rather, that's just me being honest, to myself and everyone else; partly because I don't have enough time left to BS either you or myself. If you are offended by anything I say, it's probably because you think lying to people (to be "polite") is a good idea. I don't.

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Anyone ever tried 54 water/15 oil for deep dish?
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2014, 04:53:22 PM »
Having now read my quoted update, I want to add that I have since settled into a preference of 21-22% corn oil for deep dish. Also, I use corn oil exclusively in deep dish dough (rather than mostly corn oil in addition to a smaller percentage of olive oil) because the way I see it, it's pointless to use two different kinds of oil (even though we all know that there IS olive oil in Malnati's dough). By using two kinds of oil, all that does is create unnecessary work by making you have to do one set of procedures twice. By substituting more corn oil for the small percentage of olive oil, it eliminates unnecessary work and really doesn't change anything about the pizza.
Ryan
http://www.ryanspizzablog.blogspot.com

Disclaimer: Don't necessarily believe anything I say here. My brain ain't quite right anymore (unless it is). If I come off as rude or argumentative, that's probably not my intention. Rather, that's just me being honest, to myself and everyone else; partly because I don't have enough time left to BS either you or myself. If you are offended by anything I say, it's probably because you think lying to people (to be "polite") is a good idea. I don't.

Offline pythonic

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Re: Anyone ever tried 54 water/15 oil for deep dish?
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2014, 04:56:10 PM »
Saaweeet!  ;D
I want to try that one right now....what's the rest of the formula, AP or BF?
Thankls!  :chef:

Got new toms from Costco...Nina brand.

Bob,

Go here and drop the semolina.  Change water and oil to above numbers.  May want top drop total flour to 190 as it was a little too much.  This was for 9inch.
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,24708.0.html
« Last Edit: January 17, 2014, 05:41:55 PM by pythonic »
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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Anyone ever tried 54 water/15 oil for deep dish?
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2014, 05:28:16 PM »
Bob,

Go here and drop the semolina.  Change water and oil to above numbers.
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,24708.0.html
I'll need a TF or dough weight to be able to plug in the 54,15 on the calculator.
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Offline pythonic

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Re: Anyone ever tried 54 water/15 oil for deep dish?
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2014, 06:14:05 PM »
I'll need a TF or dough weight to be able to plug in the 54,15 on the calculator.

No clue sir.  What is average TF for malnatis?  .10, .12?

9 inch
190g AP flour
102.6g water
28.5g oil
« Last Edit: January 17, 2014, 06:19:34 PM by pythonic »
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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Anyone ever tried 54 water/15 oil for deep dish?
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2014, 06:23:55 PM »
No clue sir.  What is average TF for malnatis?

9 inch
190g AP flour
102.6g water
28.5g oil
How should I know...  :(

Those numbers will get me there though as long as they not sum'in you jus made up!  ;D    Sugar and salt from the link I guess, time and temp didn't change I'm going to assume....what a patch job. This thing better turn out exactly like your pics Nate!  :-D

Bob
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Offline pythonic

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Re: Anyone ever tried 54 water/15 oil for deep dish?
« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2014, 06:24:36 PM »
Bob,

It needed to bake a little longer than normal too just so you know.
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Offline pythonic

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Re: Anyone ever tried 54 water/15 oil for deep dish?
« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2014, 06:25:27 PM »
How should I know...  :(

Those numbers will get me there though as long as they not sum'in you jus made up!  ;D    Sugar and salt from the link I guess, time and temp didn't change I'm going to assume....what a patch job. This thing better turn out exactly like your pics Nate!  :-D

Bob

Baked at 450 this time.
If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball.


Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Anyone ever tried 54 water/15 oil for deep dish?
« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2014, 06:27:38 PM »
OK...just checked and the weights on flour and water are different too....'cmon man, I need to get this dough made bro....?  ;D

Never mind, I got it patched together....that a sticky dough dude.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2014, 07:05:09 PM by Chicago Bob »
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Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Anyone ever tried 54 water/15 oil for deep dish?
« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2014, 07:04:26 PM »
Bob, my spreadsheet tells me 8.2 oz (or 232 g) of dough for 9". I'm sure that's close to what Nate's doing. This number is based on a thickness of 0.1055 oz of dough per square inch for the flat part of the skin, and a rim thickness of 0.07 oz per square inch, with a rim that extends 0.75" above the rest of the dough.
Ryan
http://www.ryanspizzablog.blogspot.com

Disclaimer: Don't necessarily believe anything I say here. My brain ain't quite right anymore (unless it is). If I come off as rude or argumentative, that's probably not my intention. Rather, that's just me being honest, to myself and everyone else; partly because I don't have enough time left to BS either you or myself. If you are offended by anything I say, it's probably because you think lying to people (to be "polite") is a good idea. I don't.

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Anyone ever tried 54 water/15 oil for deep dish?
« Reply #19 on: January 17, 2014, 07:06:41 PM »
Bob, my spreadsheet tells me 8.2 oz (or 232 g) of dough for 9". I'm sure that's close to what Nate's doing. This number is based on a thickness of 0.1055 oz of dough per square inch for the flat part of the skin, and a rim thickness of 0.07 oz per square inch, with a rim that extends 0.75" above the rest of the dough.
Thanks buddy...I just updated my post above and got a lil sum'in going in proof oven now.

Tell me Ryan, how much sliced cheese you use on a 9 incher?
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Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Anyone ever tried 54 water/15 oil for deep dish?
« Reply #20 on: January 17, 2014, 07:15:22 PM »
Thanks to your input a while back, I'd be inclined to use 8 or 9 oz of cheese. Before that, I was more inclined to use 6 or 7 oz.
Ryan
http://www.ryanspizzablog.blogspot.com

Disclaimer: Don't necessarily believe anything I say here. My brain ain't quite right anymore (unless it is). If I come off as rude or argumentative, that's probably not my intention. Rather, that's just me being honest, to myself and everyone else; partly because I don't have enough time left to BS either you or myself. If you are offended by anything I say, it's probably because you think lying to people (to be "polite") is a good idea. I don't.

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Anyone ever tried 54 water/15 oil for deep dish?
« Reply #21 on: January 17, 2014, 07:20:11 PM »
Thanks to your input a while back, I'd be inclined to use 8 or 9 oz of cheese. Before that, I was more inclined to use 6 or 7 oz.
OK...great, thank you. Been getting comments about too much cheese on that other Chi style I do and got my wires crossed...10 oz's it is then!  :D
Also going to try your 3/4 in. sidewall....do you think Nate's rim pinch is thicker than .07 Ryan? Maybe the higher hydro makes it appear thicker?

Bob
« Last Edit: January 17, 2014, 07:22:02 PM by Chicago Bob »
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Offline pythonic

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Re: Anyone ever tried 54 water/15 oil for deep dish?
« Reply #22 on: January 17, 2014, 08:54:44 PM »
OK...great, thank you. Been getting comments about too much cheese on that other Chi style I do and got my wires crossed...10 oz's it is then!  :D
Also going to try your 3/4 in. sidewall....do you think Nate's rim pinch is thicker than .07 Ryan? Maybe the higher hydro makes it appear thicker?

Bob


The crust definitely puffs up more when putting it into the pan because of the hydration.  You can see that in the bottom crust.  It wasn't dry though so I was ok with it.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2014, 09:41:11 PM by pythonic »
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Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Anyone ever tried 54 water/15 oil for deep dish?
« Reply #23 on: January 17, 2014, 09:06:47 PM »
...do you think Nate's rim pinch is thicker than .07 Ryan? Maybe the higher hydro makes it appear thicker?

I suppose Nate's probably is thicker than that number, but mine may be, too. My number is just an estimate, or theory, but it seems to translate well when I use the same criteria for other pan sizes. Particularly with 14", as I made several 14" deep dish pizzas last summer. Although my mind was all over the place when I made those pizzas, they seemed to have turned out as good as I could have hoped. Thickness seemed right and stuff.

Using the same criteria, my spreadsheet says to use 18.55 oz of dough, 19.31 oz of cheese, and 22.85 oz of sauce for a 14" deep dish.
Ryan
http://www.ryanspizzablog.blogspot.com

Disclaimer: Don't necessarily believe anything I say here. My brain ain't quite right anymore (unless it is). If I come off as rude or argumentative, that's probably not my intention. Rather, that's just me being honest, to myself and everyone else; partly because I don't have enough time left to BS either you or myself. If you are offended by anything I say, it's probably because you think lying to people (to be "polite") is a good idea. I don't.

Offline pythonic

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Re: Anyone ever tried 54 water/15 oil for deep dish?
« Reply #24 on: January 18, 2014, 01:56:24 PM »
Bob,

How did she turn out?

Nate
If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball.


 

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