Author Topic: A five fold sourdough!!  (Read 4170 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline anverc

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 112
  • Location: Albany, NY
  • gameplay engineer / pizza maker
    • sourdough utility app
Re: A five fold sourdough!!
« Reply #20 on: February 07, 2014, 10:04:40 AM »
I hope it's not heresy to admit that I'm not a fan of overly strong sourdough...I'm a huge fan of the subtle flavors of a young Ischia SD, especially when topped with excellent toppings.  Thanks for the feed back
John
No, we all have our tastes ;)

Correct, less starter and a longer, cooler ferment time will give you more flavor. What hydration is your starter at?
So i was going to:
start with 55g starter, let that quadrouple the volume after adding 110g flour / 110g water.  Are you suggesting using less than 275 in the preferment or are you suggesting what i just explained?
i'm using half weight flour and water - if anything else it's easier for me to remember.  I'm insanely unorganized
i'm making a pizza utility app.  check it out and give suggestions! http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=30444.0


Offline chasenpse

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 363
  • Location: New York
    • Battle Hill Media
Re: A five fold sourdough!!
« Reply #21 on: February 07, 2014, 01:30:55 PM »
No, we all have our tastes ;)
So i was going to:
start with 55g starter, let that quadrouple the volume after adding 110g flour / 110g water.  Are you suggesting using less than 275 in the preferment or are you suggesting what i just explained?
i'm using half weight flour and water - if anything else it's easier for me to remember.  I'm insanely unorganized
You should do both - use less and let it sit for longer, low temperature over a long period of time enable the bacteria in the starter to preform their magic slowly. How are you preparing/storing the preferment, is it left out at room temp. or is it left in a fridge or other controlled environment?
If Tetris has taught me anything, itís that errors pile up and accomplishments disappear.

Offline anverc

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 112
  • Location: Albany, NY
  • gameplay engineer / pizza maker
    • sourdough utility app
Re: A five fold sourdough!!
« Reply #22 on: February 08, 2014, 07:16:52 AM »
You should do both - use less and let it sit for longer, low temperature over a long period of time enable the bacteria in the starter to preform their magic slowly. How are you preparing/storing the preferment, is it left out at room temp. or is it left in a fridge or other controlled environment?

In the past:
I take my starter out of the refrigerator, weigh out 200g and feed that some room temp water and flour. Then I wait 12ish hours and repeat til I get lots of activity after only a couple hours.

Then I mix preferment by using 40% water, 40% flour and 20% starter. I then wait for this to quadruple, I have normally set it on the counter for this. It's 65-70 here most of the time. This takes about 12-16hours. Then I make the dough from that

Should I make it go longer by refrigerating? Won't that make this a 10day dough? :)
i'm making a pizza utility app.  check it out and give suggestions! http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=30444.0

Offline Kale dog

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 97
  • Location: United States
  • love the smell of a pizza baking.
Re: A five fold sourdough!!
« Reply #23 on: February 08, 2014, 12:00:57 PM »
I need a video demo showing the fold technique; because i knead and the crust or cornicione becomes tiny bubbles and not much big bubbles
*Sigh*

Offline parallei

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 392
  • Location: Denver
Re: A five fold sourdough!!
« Reply #24 on: February 08, 2014, 12:50:28 PM »
Quote
I need a video demo showing the fold technique; because i knead and the crust or cornicione becomes tiny bubbles and not much big bubbles

With a pretty wet dough.....you can also do the stretch and fold in the mixing bowl.

« Last Edit: February 08, 2014, 12:59:43 PM by parallei »

Offline tinroofrusted

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1261
  • Location: OC, CA
  • Experimenting....
Re: A five fold sourdough!!
« Reply #25 on: February 09, 2014, 08:23:11 AM »
I need a video demo showing the fold technique; because i knead and the crust or cornicione becomes tiny bubbles and not much big bubbles

Here's another video by Ken Forkish of Ken's Artisan Bakery, author of Flour Water Yeast Salt. He gives a pretty good tutorial on how to fold dough:


Offline tinroofrusted

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1261
  • Location: OC, CA
  • Experimenting....
Re: A five fold sourdough!!
« Reply #26 on: February 09, 2014, 03:29:56 PM »
I made a batch of this dough this morning. Mixed it with the paddle which worked great at first but pretty soon everything got stuck in the paddle and was just getting pushed around the mixer, so I switched over to the dough hook and that seemed to work better.  Then I did the five folds with five minutes in between.  I did notice some nice gluten development as I went.  So now I just have to wait a few days to let the flavor develop. 

Offline tinroofrusted

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1261
  • Location: OC, CA
  • Experimenting....
Re: A five fold sourdough!!
« Reply #27 on: February 09, 2014, 06:27:25 PM »
I decided to hold out one doughball just to see what it would do after just a few hours of fermentation.  The results were somewhere between "shockingly good" and "fantastic". I baked it in my Blackstone oven heated to about 600F.  The color was great, and the crust was very tender. Lots of nice air bubbles in the finished pizza. Not too sour, either.  Here are some  pics.

Offline caymus

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 132
Re: A five fold sourdough!!
« Reply #28 on: February 10, 2014, 05:11:23 PM »
Russ
As I've experimented using this process I've learned two great lessons.  Number 1, I now feed my sourdough with equal weights of water and flour to have the same constant hydration.  Number 2, for some reason, 5 folds is the magic number...this is the number which allows me not to have to reball and which makes the system foolproof.  Oh, and I almost forgot, it took me awhile to dial in the correct hydration for the All Trumps I am using.....seems to be 62%.

John

John,

Are you using 100% as the hydration level for your starter?

Thanks

Offline fazzari

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 902
Re: A five fold sourdough!!
« Reply #29 on: February 10, 2014, 09:37:46 PM »
I decided to hold out one doughball just to see what it would do after just a few hours of fermentation.  The results were somewhere between "shockingly good" and "fantastic". I baked it in my Blackstone oven heated to about 600F.  The color was great, and the crust was very tender. Lots of nice air bubbles in the finished pizza. Not too sour, either.  Here are some  pics.
I'm glad it worked for you, but hoping a couple days in the fridge shows you higher levels of "shockingly good" and "fantastic"
John


Offline fazzari

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 902
Re: A five fold sourdough!!
« Reply #30 on: February 10, 2014, 09:39:08 PM »
John,

Are you using 100% as the hydration level for your starter?

Yes, I am!
John

Offline Kale dog

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 97
  • Location: United States
  • love the smell of a pizza baking.
Re: A five fold sourdough!!
« Reply #31 on: February 11, 2014, 07:27:08 PM »
What are the proportions of the preferment; Flour water starter?
*Sigh*

Offline anverc

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 112
  • Location: Albany, NY
  • gameplay engineer / pizza maker
    • sourdough utility app
Re: A five fold sourdough!!
« Reply #32 on: February 16, 2014, 08:06:35 AM »
What are the proportions of the preferment; Flour water starter?

John is using his starter as the preferment. It's 100% hydration (half flour half water by weight)
i'm making a pizza utility app.  check it out and give suggestions! http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=30444.0

Offline Kale dog

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 97
  • Location: United States
  • love the smell of a pizza baking.
Re: A five fold sourdough!!
« Reply #33 on: February 16, 2014, 03:51:42 PM »
Can this dough be used right away because of the starter?  :-\
I really want a sunday pizza today  :-D
*Sigh*

Offline fazzari

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 902
Re: A five fold sourdough!!
« Reply #34 on: February 16, 2014, 11:36:18 PM »
Can this dough be used right away because of the starter?  :-\
I really want a sunday pizza today  :-D
Actually the recipe started as an emergency dough.  Not bad, but time adds so much
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=24358.0

John

Offline texmex

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 209
  • Location: out in that West Texas Town.....
Re: A five fold sourdough!!
« Reply #35 on: February 17, 2014, 10:39:35 AM »
John, your methods just get better and better. I made this formulation but omitted the yeast and had fantastic results. I used 2 of the dough balls same day (still a great crust) but days in fridge just bring the crust to such a great level. Never expected to get such a lovely pizza outta my home oven, and using no yeast!  Thanks again. I have been practicing your methods for a few years now, and not been disappointed.
Reesa

Offline Kale dog

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 97
  • Location: United States
  • love the smell of a pizza baking.
Re: A five fold sourdough!!
« Reply #36 on: February 17, 2014, 01:50:30 PM »
My dough burst the lid on 2nd day in fridge yikes!  :o
*Sigh*

Offline texmex

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 209
  • Location: out in that West Texas Town.....
Re: A five fold sourdough!!
« Reply #37 on: February 17, 2014, 03:34:06 PM »
My fridge is very cold, and not using yeast so no blow outs yet. . The dough I made Wednesday was good that day, on Friday it was great, but the last 2 balls I baked today are exceptional.
Reesa

Offline texmex

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 209
  • Location: out in that West Texas Town.....
Re: A five fold sourdough!!
« Reply #38 on: February 17, 2014, 03:45:41 PM »
Few more pics.
Reesa

Offline fazzari

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 902
Re: A five fold sourdough!!
« Reply #39 on: February 19, 2014, 06:41:41 PM »
John, your methods just get better and better. I made this formulation but omitted the yeast and had fantastic results. I used 2 of the dough balls same day (still a great crust) but days in fridge just bring the crust to such a great level. Never expected to get such a lovely pizza outta my home oven, and using no yeast!  Thanks again. I have been practicing your methods for a few years now, and not been disappointed.
That's kind of you....and I'm happy it works for you!!
John