Author Topic: Found Giordanos ingredient list (Peter can you look at this?)  (Read 11634 times)

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Offline Garvey

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Re: Found Giordanos ingredient list (Peter can you look at this?)
« Reply #25 on: February 02, 2014, 12:10:05 AM »
Maybe they mean "kosher" like when used in dill pickles, i.e., contains garlic.

 :-D


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Re: Found Giordanos ingredient list (Peter can you look at this?)
« Reply #26 on: February 02, 2014, 09:30:24 AM »
I am also curious about Giordano's crust.  Didn't Edwardo's start out as Edward Jacobson's split from the Broglio brothers (then the owners of Giordano's and went out on his own in 1978)?  If so, then I guess this might be Edwardo's ingredient list for the crust.  http://featuredfoods.com/cgi-local/SoftCart.exe/a-store/EDW-01.shtml?L+scstore+rcnr0335edwardoffc291c2+1227616016  I wonder if that ingredient list is anything like Giordano's ingredient list.  I really don't understand the whole relationship between Giordano's, Nancy's and Edwardo's.

I am also curious about the margarine type that is used in dough (if any is) or the type used in the pans Giordano's uses.  I was reading about the Blitz method of baking since Tom Lehmann posted about that on Zoe's thread.  I would not think home pizza makers would have access to that type of margarine that could make flaky layers, but do think many bakeries and other businesses do have access to those fat flakes or margarine that could produce a layered flaky crust.  I would think there are many types of baking margarine something like these for commercial businesses.  https://www.bungenorthamerica.com/products/categories/57-margarines-and-buttery-spreads and https://www.bungenorthamerica.com/products/categories/41-specialty-shortenings  I have been trying to purchase some of those flakes flakes or commercial margarine with no luck yet.

Years ago when Giordano's started I would not think people would have been that concerned about hydrogenated fats, but there are alternate products now.  Some are at Caravan foods and other places.
 
This are some photos of dough using the Blitz method with fat flakes.

I did email Giordano's with some questions.  I will wait and see if they reply.

Norma
« Last Edit: February 02, 2014, 09:32:20 AM by norma427 »

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Re: Found Giordanos ingredient list (Peter can you look at this?)
« Reply #27 on: February 02, 2014, 11:10:49 AM »
They could possibly be using something called hard fats.  Tom Lehman said this will cause the same layering effect.  Would the hard fats show up under soybean oil though?  All I know is the crust has many dry layers and I have not been able to produce it using straight oil.  That is why I really think there is some folding going on when it's made. Who said FL was making their own dough? 

Nate
Nate,

I believe that you are referring to Tom Lehmann's post on the use of hard fat flakes (sometimes called flake oil) in the preparation of pizza doughs at Reply 28 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,29524.msg298324.html#msg298324.

I will begin my response by saying that I have looked at the labels of hundreds of margarine and margarine-like products and recipes and formulations using such products, and I am very confident based on the ingredients list that you provided earlier in this thread that Giordano's is using either margarine or a margarine-like product. Moreover, in the material I quoted from the earlier mentioned Muslim website, Giordano's said the following: The margarine used in all ingredients as well as to coat our pizza pans is also a certified koshered margarine. To add to this, elsewhere on the forum, and also in Giordano's videos, what was put in the pans was clearly a soft margarine or margarine-like product (and maybe even butter in some Giordano's stores). See, for example, the first photo in Reply 11 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8361.msg85140.html#msg85140. That photo happened to have been taken at the Giordano's store in Tampa, Florida which, according to the most recent Giordano's store locator at http://giordanos.com/our-locations/, apparently no longer exists or is no longer a Giordano's franchisee.

However, to be on the safe side with my conclusion as I believe is supported by the above facts, I decided to do some online research on fat flakes. I found a handful of suppliers of such products. I also found references to the use of fat flakes for pizza dough production. Examples include the fat flakes produced by Bunge (https://www.bungenorthamerica.com/products/categories/53-flaked-shortenings) that Norma mentioned in her last post, but also fat flakes produced by Cargill (http://www.cargillfoods.com/na/en/products/oils-shortenings/Products/flakes/index.jsp). There were also a few much smaller sources of fat flakes but none of the sites I visited provided information on the composition of their fat flake products. However, by expanding my search, I was able to find an isolated spec for a Cargill partially hydrogenated soybean fat flake product at http://www.sfm.state.or.us/CR2K_SubDB/MSDS/PHSBO_SOYBEAN_OIL_FLAKES.PDF. That product, which appears in the product listing in the Cargill link referenced above, contains only partially hydrogenated soybean oil, which is one of the ingredients of the Giordano's margarine product, and citric acid. There is no listing of liquid soybean oil, emulsifiers (such as the diglycerides), water, salt, lecithin, flavors or color agents. What this tells me is that if Giordano's is using a fat flake product, their ingredients list would reflect that.

As for the Giordano's Florida locations and whether they make their own dough, I do not have personal knowledge of where they get their dough. However, as noted in the Giordano's locator list referenced above, there are currently only three Giordano's stores in Florida. In my opinion, that is too small a number of stores to justify a commissary. The rest of the Giordano's stores--41 in number--are all in the Chicago area. With that number of stores, a commissary business model makes great sense. The question of where the Giordano's Florida stores get their dough is not a new one. In a post that I entered elsewhere in one of the other Giordano's threads, I touched upon this matter by suggesting that the Florida stores might have been making their own dough or it was being sources by an external, local source. This is quite common for stores of chains that are too far out from their commissary location. For example, Papa Gino's in the northeast has its remote stores make the dough in the stores. All the others get their dough from the PG commissary.

I did find a photo of dough balls in the Tampa Giordano's store at Reply 13 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8361.msg85143.html#msg85143 (second photo down). I have no idea as to how those dough balls got there. All I can tell you, is that in Reply 123 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,5674.msg72241/topicseen.html#msg72241 member BTB speculated that there was an area of the kitchen at the Tampa location where the dough was possibly made. I would think that a simple telephone call to one of the current Florida locations would answer the question as to where the dough is made.

As an aside, and maybe a helpful one, when I was researching the above sourcing issue in relation to the Florida Giordano's stores, I came across an article that listed some of the creditors of Giordano's that were filing claims in the Giordano's bankruptcy suit. That article contained the following:

According to the filing, major unsecured creditors include Saputo Cheese USA, with a claim of $426,678; Bartlett-based Greco & Sons Inc., with a claim of $213,694; Giordano's Advertising Fund, with a claim of $150,777; Heinz North America, with a claim of $131,801; and Tardella Foods Inc., with a claim of $29,963. (Source: http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-02-18/business/ct-biz-0218-giordanos-bankruptcy-20110218_1_bankruptcy-filing-pizza-uno-chicago-grill).

What is noteworthy in the above quote is that Saputo is a major supplier of mozzarella cheeses and that Heinz is the parent company of Escalon--the source of 6-in-1 and like tomato products. Tardella Foods (http://tardellafoods.com/Home_Page.html) is a foodservice company, some of whose "partners" are flour millers (http://tardellafoods.com/Our_Partners.html). Greco and Sons (http://www.grecoandsons.com/) is a foodservice supplier of cheeses and meats (including sausage), among other items. I do not know whether Giordano's is still using these suppliers coming out of the bankruptcy proceedings. However, is common for companies coming out of bankruptcy to go stay with their existing suppliers. Otherwise, their products will be different and be noticed by customers.

Peter
« Last Edit: February 02, 2014, 11:20:30 AM by Pete-zza »

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Re: Found Giordanos ingredient list (Peter can you look at this?)
« Reply #28 on: February 02, 2014, 12:01:40 PM »
Norma,

I believe that I addressed some of your questions in my last post.

As to the Edwardo's ingredients list, there are similarities to the Giordano's current ingredients list. However, I believe that Edwardo's is using the margarine or margarine-like product directly in the dough, and maybe also to grease the pans. Originally I thought that Giordano's was using both soybean oil and their margarine or margarine-like product in their dough, but the reply that I recently got from Giordano's (quoted in Reply 16 in this thread) led me to believe that soybean oil was used in the dough and that the margarine or margarine-like product was used only in the pans. However, since the reply mentioned rice flour instead of wheat flour, it is not entirely clear what Giordano's is actually doing. In the ingredients list that Giordano's provided to me several years ago, and reproduced by Nate in Reply 14 in this thread, the ingredients list was as follows: Crust (Flour, water, vegetable oil, yeast, salt, spices). However, that list included spices and either intentionally or unintentionally omitted sugar. So, there is still a fair amount of ambiguity.

Maybe you already saw this, but there is an old post on the forum directed to an Edwardo's stuffed sausage pizza at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=294.0. There is also an ingredients list and Nutrition Facts for the Edwardo's stuffed 9" cheese pizza at http://featuredfoods.com/a-store/EDW-08.shtml.

Peter

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Re: Found Giordanos ingredient list (Peter can you look at this?)
« Reply #29 on: February 02, 2014, 12:07:38 PM »
Norma,

I believe that I addressed some of your questions in my last post.

As to the Edwardo's ingredients list, there are similarities to the Giordano's current ingredients list. However, I believe that Edwardo's is using the margarine or margarine-like product directly in the dough, and maybe also to grease the pans. Originally I thought that Giordano's was using both soybean oil and their margarine or margarine-like product in their dough, but the reply that I recently got from Giordano's (quoted in Reply 16 in this thread) led me to believe that soybean oil was used in the dough and that the margarine or margarine-like product was used only in the pans. However, since the reply mentioned rice flour instead of wheat flour, it is not entirely clear what Giordano's is actually doing. In the ingredients list that Giordano's provided to me several years ago, and reproduced by Nate in Reply 14 in this thread, the ingredients list was as follows: Crust (Flour, water, vegetable oil, yeast, salt, spices). However, that list included spices and either intentionally or unintentionally omitted sugar. So, there is still a fair amount of ambiguity.

Maybe you already saw this, but there is an old post on the forum directed to an Edwardo's stuffed sausage pizza at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=294.0. There is also an ingredients list and Nutrition Facts for the Edwardo's stuffed 9" cheese pizza at http://featuredfoods.com/a-store/EDW-08.shtml.

Peter

Peter,

Yes, you did address some of my questions in your post to Nate.  I did not see Steve's post before.

Norma

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Re: Found Giordanos ingredient list (Peter can you look at this?)
« Reply #30 on: February 02, 2014, 02:01:02 PM »
Norma,

That's intesting stuff with those margarine chunks for Edwardos pizza.  The question though is does the dough have to be sheeted and baked cold like normal pastry dough to get the layers.  Most likely yes.

Nate
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Re: Found Giordanos ingredient list (Peter can you look at this?)
« Reply #31 on: February 02, 2014, 03:09:00 PM »
Nate,

Norma can correct me on this but I do not believe that she said that Edwardo's uses fat flakes.

Peter


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Re: Found Giordanos ingredient list (Peter can you look at this?)
« Reply #32 on: February 02, 2014, 03:12:59 PM »
Norma,

That's intesting stuff with those margarine chunks for Edwardos pizza.  The question though is does the dough have to be sheeted and baked cold like normal pastry dough to get the layers.  Most likely yes.

Nate

Nate,

I really don't know.  Tom said hard fats flakes are added to the dough in much the same manner as raisins are added to raisin bread dough.  The result is a mixture of fat flakes and dough which imparts the appearance of laminated dough..  You can read Tom Lehmann post at Reply 39 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,29524.msg298462.html#msg298462 to see what you think.

Norma

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Re: Found Giordanos ingredient list (Peter can you look at this?)
« Reply #33 on: February 02, 2014, 03:29:51 PM »
Nate,

This is another article from Tom Lehmann.  This is partly what is said.  “There are some types of shortening and margarine (and yes, even butter) that are specially treated (hydrogenated) to give it a very solid characteristic. These are known as “fat flakes”. Fat flakes are designed to retain their integrity (size/shape) when mixed into a dough so when the dough is heated during the baking process the fat flakes melt and the fat is absorbed into the surrounding dough. This helps to create a more open, porous internal cell structure desirable in some instances, such as when dough is processed using high-speed automated equipment in a wholesale or commissary environment. Fat flakes are interesting with a multi functional purpose. They are designed to retain their integrity within the dough and melt during baking as means of creating holes and voids in the baked crust. Some of the new generation of fat flakes are referred to as hydrated fat flakes because they will contain 12 to 15 percent water. This water content is important to the functionality of the flakes. As the fat melts and is absorbed into the surrounding dough, the water is vaporized and creates a much more pronounced and desirable void in the still forming dough structure. To achieve these characteristics fat flakes are used at levels of 10 to 15% of the total dough weight. If you have ever seen a microwave-able pizza or calzone and noticed the open, porous structure of the crust, it is a good bet that fat flakes played an integral role in achieving that structure.   http://www.pizzatoday.com/industry-news/oils-affect-dough/   

This is a patent for a pizza crust with fat flakes. 

http://www.google.nl/patents/US4645673 

I am not saying that Giordano's uses fat flakes though.

Norma


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Re: Found Giordanos ingredient list (Peter can you look at this?)
« Reply #34 on: February 04, 2014, 07:36:43 PM »
Nate,

I really don't know.  Tom said hard fats flakes are added to the dough in much the same manner as raisins are added to raisin bread dough.  The result is a mixture of fat flakes and dough which imparts the appearance of laminated dough..  You can read Tom Lehmann post at Reply 39 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,29524.msg298462.html#msg298462 to see what you think.

Hey would you mind a little imput?  To be honest, I've never had a Giordanos, but from looking at the pictures and quickly reading descriptions, the first thing that came to mind was brioche.  But after I thought about it for a day, I thought biscuits.  Anyway, I picked up my "Artisan Breads Everyday" book by Reinhart and turned to the section on best biscuits ever.  I'm not going to copy the ingredients, but I want to relay the process.  First of all, the liquid is kept cold.  For the butter he uses in the recipe he puts in the freezer for 30 minutes to harden.  He then uses a cheese grater to grate the chilled butter into the dry ingredients, tossing them to keep them separated.  He then adds his liquid and mixes with a large spoon until all the flour is hydrated and the dough forms a coarse ball.  Transfer dough to floured work surface and press into a rectangle.  Using a pastry scraper to help lift the dough, fold it over on itself in three section as if folding a letter.  Roll dough out into a rectangle and again fold into thirds.  Repeat the process two more times for a total of 4 roll-outs inall.  From the book:"The folding technique described in the recipe is similar to the lamination method known as blitz.  It creates many thin layers of dough and fat, causing the biscuits to puff up and open like an accordian, creating maximum flakiness".  So, if one makes a biscuit type dough, and adds yeast instead of baking powder and baking soda, I wonder if this method will get you close to what you're looking for.  I think it sounds like fun!!

John

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Re: Found Giordanos ingredient list (Peter can you look at this?)
« Reply #35 on: February 04, 2014, 08:15:32 PM »
Nate,

Norma can correct me on this but I do not believe that she said that Edwardo's uses fat flakes.

Peter

Yes I know.  I assumed it was just shaved chunks of frozen margarine.

Nate
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Re: Found Giordanos ingredient list (Peter can you look at this?)
« Reply #36 on: February 04, 2014, 08:49:44 PM »
Hey would you mind a little imput?  To be honest, I've never had a Giordanos, but from looking at the pictures and quickly reading descriptions, the first thing that came to mind was brioche.  But after I thought about it for a day, I thought biscuits.  Anyway, I picked up my "Artisan Breads Everyday" book by Reinhart and turned to the section on best biscuits ever.  I'm not going to copy the ingredients, but I want to relay the process.  First of all, the liquid is kept cold.  For the butter he uses in the recipe he puts in the freezer for 30 minutes to harden.  He then uses a cheese grater to grate the chilled butter into the dry ingredients, tossing them to keep them separated.  He then adds his liquid and mixes with a large spoon until all the flour is hydrated and the dough forms a coarse ball.  Transfer dough to floured work surface and press into a rectangle.  Using a pastry scraper to help lift the dough, fold it over on itself in three section as if folding a letter.  Roll dough out into a rectangle and again fold into thirds.  Repeat the process two more times for a total of 4 roll-outs inall.  From the book:"The folding technique described in the recipe is similar to the lamination method known as blitz.  It creates many thin layers of dough and fat, causing the biscuits to puff up and open like an accordian, creating maximum flakiness".  So, if one makes a biscuit type dough, and adds yeast instead of baking powder and baking soda, I wonder if this method will get you close to what you're looking for.  I think it sounds like fun!!

John

Thanks for your input John.  I've read up on the blitz method as well and want to give it a try.  Giordanos crust is dry and isn't greasy at all so as long as this doesn't produce puff pastry we should be good.

Nate
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Re: Found Giordanos ingredient list (Peter can you look at this?)
« Reply #37 on: February 04, 2014, 10:02:30 PM »
Could Giordano's be using a vegetable margarine like Ventura's Foods Solid Margarine, or something similar?  http://www.dutchvalleyfoods.com/products/baking/oils-and-shortenings/shortenings/248049/ventura-foods-solid-margarine-30-1lb

If Giordano's is not using something like margarine in their dough why would BTB report that he observed yellow specks in the skins formed in the Florida Giordano's location.

Norma
« Last Edit: February 04, 2014, 10:04:16 PM by norma427 »

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Re: Found Giordanos ingredient list (Peter can you look at this?)
« Reply #38 on: February 04, 2014, 10:36:33 PM »
Could Giordano's be using a vegetable margarine like Ventura's Foods Solid Margarine, or something similar?  http://www.dutchvalleyfoods.com/products/baking/oils-and-shortenings/shortenings/248049/ventura-foods-solid-margarine-30-1lb

If Giordano's is not using something like margarine in their dough why would BTB report that he observed yellow specks in the skins formed in the Florida Giordano's location.

Norma

It very well could be margarine but in order to create layers in the crust the margarine would need to be cold and I've seen their dough boxes sitting out so I don't get it.
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Re: Found Giordanos ingredient list (Peter can you look at this?)
« Reply #39 on: February 04, 2014, 10:44:50 PM »
It very well could be margarine but in order to create layers in the crust the margarine would need to be cold and I've seen their dough boxes sitting out so I don't get it.

Nate,

Since I never really had a Giordano's pizza or saw Giordano's making them I sure am not a good one to even post on this thread.  Did you ever see the yellow specks in their dough like BTB previously reported?  I am curious how yellow specks were in the dough skin.  Some margarines do not get really soft at room temperature.  I don't really get it either, but just think about what could be.

Norma

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Re: Found Giordanos ingredient list (Peter can you look at this?)
« Reply #40 on: February 04, 2014, 11:13:13 PM »
Nate,

Since I never really had a Giordano's pizza or saw Giordano's making them I sure am not a good one to even post on this thread.  Did you ever see the yellow specks in their dough like BTB previously reported?  I am curious how yellow specks were in the dough skin.  Some margarines do not get really soft at room temperature.  I don't really get it either, but just think about what could be.

Norma

Norma,

No I've never seen any specks of yellow in all the vids out there.
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Re: Found Giordanos ingredient list (Peter can you look at this?)
« Reply #41 on: February 05, 2014, 10:20:58 AM »
Could Giordano's be using a vegetable margarine like Ventura's Foods Solid Margarine, or something similar?  http://www.dutchvalleyfoods.com/products/baking/oils-and-shortenings/shortenings/248049/ventura-foods-solid-margarine-30-1lb

If Giordano's is not using something like margarine in their dough why would BTB report that he observed yellow specks in the skins formed in the Florida Giordano's location.

Norma
Norma,

The Ventura margarine product you found is quite close to the margarine product that is used to make the Giordano's heart shaped pizza and, most likely, the other pizzas that Giordano's sells. There are a few differences between the two products in that the margarine product used by Giordano's is a Koshered product and uses Kosher salt, and also includes calcium disodium EDTA, which is a common ingredient used in margarine products as a flavor protector, but otherwise the Ventura and Giordano's products are very similar. It would be highly unlikely that you would be able to detect the differences when used in a dough.

Also, for your information, the Ventura margarine is a true margarine since it includes 11 grams of fat (soybean oil) for a 14-gram serving. That comes to 78.6% soybean oil, but because of rounding I am sure that the actual amount of soybean oil is 80% or higher, as required under law to have the product sold as margarine, not a margarine-like product. I should also note that the Ventura margarine has Trans Fat. At this point, we do not know whether the same is true for the Giordano's margarine product. We would have a better feel for the answer to that question if we knew how and where Giordano's uses its margarine product. That is, is that product used only to grease the pans or is it also used in the dough, along with soybean oil?

As for the Kosher certification, I found a source of Koshered margarine or margarine-like products at http://www.midatlanticveg.com/publish/product.shtml. There are no spec sheets at the website itself but, as noted at the website, all of their Koshered products are produced under Kosher supervision.

As for the yellow spots in the Giordano's dough that BTB mentioned, it is unlikely that the soybean oil would be the source of such spots. At least I have never seen such spotting when I have used soybean oil in pizza dough and have tried to fully and uniformly mix it into the dough. However, as I once mentioned before, I did see yellow spots when a dough with a lot of oil in it was dusted in flour and where the flour was absorbed in parts of the outer surface of the dough ball and the skin formed from the dough ball. As for other possibilities, if margarine is used in the Giordano's dough, I suppose that the beta carotene color agent in the margarine could also lead to yellow spotting, especially if the margarine is blended into the dough so that it retains its form and character (maybe in shards) and does not melt into the dough.

If soybean oil is used in the dough without margarine, there may be ways of blending it into the dough so that it remains discrete, possibly by gradually adding the oil to the dough and kneading the dough only briefly. Using cold ingredients might also facilitate this exercise. I mention this because I found through past experimentation that it is harder to combine ingredients and to get good hydration of the flour when the flour and water are cold (in my tests the water was ice cold and the flour had been stored in the freezer). Doing the same thing with soybean oil may keep it from melting into the dough. At this point, all we can do is speculate. Hopefully, at some point we will get a better idea as to what actually goes into the Giordano's dough. Unfortunately, there is no way to determine from the Total Fat and Sat Fat numbers we have seen to date where the fats are used and in what amounts. That is because there are Total Fats and Sat Fats in the mozzarella cheese blend, the soybean oil and in the margarine. There is no way that I know to isolate those fats among the three components.

It also does not help that we don't have Nutrition Facts for those ingredients other than for the soybean oil because it is a generic-like product. For example, assuming that Giordano's is using Stella foodservice mozzarella cheeses, which is a good possibility since Saputo, the owner of the Stella brand, was a named creditor in the Giordano's bankruptcy proceedings, I was unable to find the Nutrition Facts for those cheeses in block form.

Peter
« Last Edit: February 05, 2014, 10:37:55 AM by Pete-zza »


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Re: Found Giordanos ingredient list (Peter can you look at this?)
« Reply #42 on: February 05, 2014, 11:38:22 AM »
After my last post, I used Google Image to locate photos of labels of the Stella mozzarella cheeses and, through that search, found the Nutrition Facts for the Stella low moisture whole milk mozzarella cheese here:

http://www.shopwell.com/stella-cheese-mozzarella-low-moisture-whole-milk/cheese-hard/p/7580587220

and, for the low moisture part-skim version, here:

http://www.fooducate.com/app#page=product&id=E97387AA-0CFA-11E0-BF92-FEFD45A4D471

As can be seen, there are no fillers or the like, only cheese.

Also, as can be seen at the Frigo and Dragone websites, also part of the Saputo family of mozzarella cheeses, at

http://www.frigocheese.com/OurCheeses/CheeseType.aspx?id=54

and at

http://www.dragonecheese.com/OurCheeses/CheeseType.aspx?id=42 ,

the Nutrition Facts are very similar to the Stella brand.

Peter
« Last Edit: February 05, 2014, 12:09:57 PM by Pete-zza »

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Re: Found Giordanos ingredient list (Peter can you look at this?)
« Reply #43 on: February 05, 2014, 12:32:51 PM »
This morning, before I composed the last two posts, I sent another email to Giordano's. This time, I asked what kind of flour was used to make the dough for the Giordano's stuffed pizzas, and also whether the dough also contained margarine. Parenthetically, I mentioned all-purpose flour as a possibility for the flour for the Giordano's dough and also that I saw from some Giordano's videos that margarine was used in the pans.

Not long after my email. I received the following reply:

To answer your question, Giordano’s recipes are kept confidential, as you probably suspected. But I can say that our pizza dough contains all-purpose flour, yeast, soy vegetable oil, water, sugar and salt.

The above would suggest that the margarine is used only in the pans. Of course, there is a possibility that a different dough is used for the heart shaped pizza that Nate brought to our attention. But, even then, from the ingredients list it is not certain that the margarine is used in the dough.

Peter


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Re: Found Giordanos ingredient list (Peter can you look at this?)
« Reply #44 on: February 05, 2014, 12:51:17 PM »
Peter,

Thank you for the information how the Ventura margarine product compares with Giordano's margarine product. 

Thanks also for explaining about the spots in the dough at Giordano's and how they might have gotten there.  It is interesting if soybean oil is only used in the dough what might cause those spots. 

When I was searching about Giordano's stuffed pizza I found it interesting what I read on Slice.  The article said Giordano's and Nancy's both opened in Chicago around the same time.  Giordano's says their stuffed pizza is based on their mother's Easter pizza while Nancy's claims its pizzas is based on an Italian pastry.  I wonder if there is more to that story about their dough making methods and if both of their doughs are pastry related.  http://chicago.seriouseats.com/2008/06/giordanos-stuffed-pizza-classic-chicago-illinois.html   

I also watched many videos of the employees opening their dough, dressing the pizzas and twirling the skins at Giordano's.  I was trying to get a feel of either how their dough looked or handled.

In my email to Giordano's I started off as saying I would like to order some of their frozen pizzas to try them.  I guess I made the mistake of saying I have some trouble with higher gluten flours.  I did ask other questions about their margarine and Nutrition Facts, but only got a reply about their flour.  I may need to rethink what I asked and write to them again.  I could say I still would like to try their frozen pizzas.  Do you have any other questions I could ask it a discreet way?

This was the reply I received from Giordano's today:

Hello Norma!

Thank you so much for taking the time to write us!  Unfortunately, Giordano’s does use a higher gluten flour in the production of our pizzas.

Sorry to disappoint!

Thank you again for contacting Giordano’s!

Customer Service

Norma

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Found Giordanos ingredient list (Peter can you look at this?)
« Reply #45 on: February 05, 2014, 12:56:23 PM »
Just a heads up...wouldn't doubt that Giordanos knows who "Norma" and "Peter" are. Ya'll might want to change your names in the emails.   :-D

Bob
« Last Edit: February 05, 2014, 01:11:28 PM by Chicago Bob »
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Re: Found Giordanos ingredient list (Peter can you look at this?)
« Reply #46 on: February 05, 2014, 01:15:30 PM »
Just a heads up...wouldn't doubt that Giordanos knows who "Norma" and "Peter" are. Ya'll might want to change your names in the emails.  :)

Bob

Bob,

Part of my real email address does have Norma in it so I really can't change that.  If worse comes to worse I can use my one daughter's email address.  I think we are getting the run around though when Giordano's told Peter the dough contains all-purpose flour and they told me they use high gluten flour.

Norma

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Re: Found Giordanos ingredient list (Peter can you look at this?)
« Reply #47 on: February 05, 2014, 03:00:31 PM »
Norma,

I had recalled from reading another Slice/Serious Eats article, at http://chicago.seriouseats.com/2011/07/chicago-essential-giordanos.html, that the flour said to be used at Giordano's at the time was high gluten flour. That was back in 2011, when Giordano's was in bankruptcy proceedings. Because I wasn't convinced that Giordano's was actually using "high gluten" flour which, as Tom Lehmann has mentioned before is not a defined industry term and can mean several possible things, I intentionally mentioned all-purpose flour to see if I would be told that that was not the flour they were using, and hoping that they would correct me by giving me the right answer. Also, in the back of my mind I was thinking that Giordano's was using the Ceresota/Heckers all-purpose flour which, in addition to being a local and readily available flour in the Chicago area, also happens to have a higher protein content than most all-purpose flours and, hence, a higher gluten content than other all-purpose flours. According to the Heckers/Ceresota website at http://heckersceresota.com/nutrition.html, the Heckers and Ceresota all-purpose flours have a protein content of 12%. That is even higher than the King Arthur all-purpose flour which, at 11.7%, is higher than most all-purpose flours. There are also all-purpose flours, such as H&R flours, that are as low as 9% or thereabouts. So, in the above context, the person at Giordano's who responded to your email was arguably on firm ground in saying that the Giordano's flour is a high gluten flour. It is all relative.

To add to the confusion, the abovereferenced article said that there was shortening used in the dough. The article that you cited also said the same thing but, in a comment to that article, it was reported that, according to the GM and executive chef at Giordano's at the time, there was no shortening in the dough. Another thing I confirmed in the Serious Eats article I cited was that the cheese--said to be whole milk mozzarella cheese--was shredded in-house. So, at least in that respect, the ingredients list that Nate provided for the heart shaped pizza was in proper form, although it now appears that Giordano's may be using a blend of low moisture whole milk mozzarella cheese and low moisture part-skim mozzarella cheese.

BTW, in communicating with Giordano's, the first time I used an alias but the second time I used Peter.

Peter


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Re: Found Giordanos ingredient list (Peter can you look at this?)
« Reply #48 on: February 05, 2014, 03:32:57 PM »
Very unlikely they are using 100% AP flour.  Their dough is dry and dense but it isn't bready at all.  The raw dough is very strong as well as they twirl it around.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2014, 03:43:04 PM by pythonic »
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Re: Found Giordanos ingredient list (Peter can you look at this?)
« Reply #49 on: February 05, 2014, 03:37:31 PM »
Between my last two posts, I decided to call one of the Orlando-area Giordano's to delve into the question of where the Florida Giordano's stores get their dough. I decided, arbitrarily, to call the Orlando Giordano's at W. Sand Lake Road, where I spoke to a manager who answered the phone. I started by telling him that I was considering a trip to the Orlando area (my first fabrication) and that, as a pizza lover, friends had suggested that I try their stuffed pizza (my second fabrication). I then told him that I had read somewhere on the Internet that one of the Florida Giordano's may have been using frozen dough, or dough that may have been frozen at some point (this was true). I also expressed concern that their pizza might not be the same or as good as those in the Chicago-area Giordano's stores.

As to the frozen dough remark, the manager responded that their dough is not frozen and, is in fact make in-store. He said the same is true of the Chicago-area stores where the dough is delivered from the commissary to their stores three times a week, and always fresh and not frozen. He made a point of emphasizing the freshness of everything they do.

As for the question of similarity between their stuffed pizzas and the Chicago-area counterparts, he said that they use the same dough recipe as used in the Chicago area and they follow the instructions given to them from Chicago. He said that there were some differences but that they were minor.

If what I was told about the dough being made in-store is true, that begs the question as to how they specifically make the dough and, more particularly, how they get the layering effect in the crust as has been discussed in this, and related, threads.

Peter