Author Topic: Found Giordanos ingredient list (Peter can you look at this?)  (Read 5968 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline pythonic

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 2095
  • Age: 36
  • Location: Crest Hill, IL
  • Pizza......its what's for dinner!
Re: Found Giordanos ingredient list (Peter can you look at this?)
« Reply #40 on: February 04, 2014, 11:13:13 PM »
Nate,

Since I never really had a Giordano's pizza or saw Giordano's making them I sure am not a good one to even post on this thread.  Did you ever see the yellow specks in their dough like BTB previously reported?  I am curious how yellow specks were in the dough skin.  Some margarines do not get really soft at room temperature.  I don't really get it either, but just think about what could be.

Norma

Norma,

No I've never seen any specks of yellow in all the vids out there.
If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball.


Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22003
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Found Giordanos ingredient list (Peter can you look at this?)
« Reply #41 on: February 05, 2014, 10:20:58 AM »
Could Giordano's be using a vegetable margarine like Ventura's Foods Solid Margarine, or something similar?  http://www.dutchvalleyfoods.com/products/baking/oils-and-shortenings/shortenings/248049/ventura-foods-solid-margarine-30-1lb

If Giordano's is not using something like margarine in their dough why would BTB report that he observed yellow specks in the skins formed in the Florida Giordano's location.

Norma

Norma,

The Ventura margarine product you found is quite close to the margarine product that is used to make the Giordano's heart shaped pizza and, most likely, the other pizzas that Giordano's sells. There are a few differences between the two products in that the margarine product used by Giordano's is a Koshered product and uses Kosher salt, and also includes calcium disodium EDTA, which is a common ingredient used in margarine products as a flavor protector, but otherwise the Ventura and Giordano's products are very similar. It would be highly unlikely that you would be able to detect the differences when used in a dough.

Also, for your information, the Ventura margarine is a true margarine since it includes 11 grams of fat (soybean oil) for a 14-gram serving. That comes to 78.6% soybean oil, but because of rounding I am sure that the actual amount of soybean oil is 80% or higher, as required under law to have the product sold as margarine, not a margarine-like product. I should also note that the Ventura margarine has Trans Fat. At this point, we do not know whether the same is true for the Giordano's margarine product. We would have a better feel for the answer to that question if we knew how and where Giordano's uses its margarine product. That is, is that product used only to grease the pans or is it also used in the dough, along with soybean oil?

As for the Kosher certification, I found a source of Koshered margarine or margarine-like products at http://www.midatlanticveg.com/publish/product.shtml. There are no spec sheets at the website itself but, as noted at the website, all of their Koshered products are produced under Kosher supervision.

As for the yellow spots in the Giordano's dough that BTB mentioned, it is unlikely that the soybean oil would be the source of such spots. At least I have never seen such spotting when I have used soybean oil in pizza dough and have tried to fully and uniformly mix it into the dough. However, as I once mentioned before, I did see yellow spots when a dough with a lot of oil in it was dusted in flour and where the flour was absorbed in parts of the outer surface of the dough ball and the skin formed from the dough ball. As for other possibilities, if margarine is used in the Giordano's dough, I suppose that the beta carotene color agent in the margarine could also lead to yellow spotting, especially if the margarine is blended into the dough so that it retains its form and character (maybe in shards) and does not melt into the dough.

If soybean oil is used in the dough without margarine, there may be ways of blending it into the dough so that it remains discrete, possibly by gradually adding the oil to the dough and kneading the dough only briefly. Using cold ingredients might also facilitate this exercise. I mention this because I found through past experimentation that it is harder to combine ingredients and to get good hydration of the flour when the flour and water are cold (in my tests the water was ice cold and the flour had been stored in the freezer). Doing the same thing with soybean oil may keep it from melting into the dough. At this point, all we can do is speculate. Hopefully, at some point we will get a better idea as to what actually goes into the Giordano's dough. Unfortunately, there is no way to determine from the Total Fat and Sat Fat numbers we have seen to date where the fats are used and in what amounts. That is because there are Total Fats and Sat Fats in the mozzarella cheese blend, the soybean oil and in the margarine. There is no way that I know to isolate those fats among the three components.

It also does not help that we don't have Nutrition Facts for those ingredients other than for the soybean oil because it is a generic-like product. For example, assuming that Giordano's is using Stella foodservice mozzarella cheeses, which is a good possibility since Saputo, the owner of the Stella brand, was a named creditor in the Giordano's bankruptcy proceedings, I was unable to find the Nutrition Facts for those cheeses in block form.

Peter
« Last Edit: February 05, 2014, 10:37:55 AM by Pete-zza »

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22003
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Found Giordanos ingredient list (Peter can you look at this?)
« Reply #42 on: February 05, 2014, 11:38:22 AM »
After my last post, I used Google Image to locate photos of labels of the Stella mozzarella cheeses and, through that search, found the Nutrition Facts for the Stella low moisture whole milk mozzarella cheese here:

http://www.shopwell.com/stella-cheese-mozzarella-low-moisture-whole-milk/cheese-hard/p/7580587220

and, for the low moisture part-skim version, here:

http://www.fooducate.com/app#page=product&id=E97387AA-0CFA-11E0-BF92-FEFD45A4D471

As can be seen, there are no fillers or the like, only cheese.

Also, as can be seen at the Frigo and Dragone websites, also part of the Saputo family of mozzarella cheeses, at

http://www.frigocheese.com/OurCheeses/CheeseType.aspx?id=54

and at

http://www.dragonecheese.com/OurCheeses/CheeseType.aspx?id=42 ,

the Nutrition Facts are very similar to the Stella brand.

Peter
« Last Edit: February 05, 2014, 12:09:57 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22003
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Found Giordanos ingredient list (Peter can you look at this?)
« Reply #43 on: February 05, 2014, 12:32:51 PM »
This morning, before I composed the last two posts, I sent another email to Giordano's. This time, I asked what kind of flour was used to make the dough for the Giordano's stuffed pizzas, and also whether the dough also contained margarine. Parenthetically, I mentioned all-purpose flour as a possibility for the flour for the Giordano's dough and also that I saw from some Giordano's videos that margarine was used in the pans.

Not long after my email. I received the following reply:

To answer your question, Giordano’s recipes are kept confidential, as you probably suspected. But I can say that our pizza dough contains all-purpose flour, yeast, soy vegetable oil, water, sugar and salt.

The above would suggest that the margarine is used only in the pans. Of course, there is a possibility that a different dough is used for the heart shaped pizza that Nate brought to our attention. But, even then, from the ingredients list it is not certain that the margarine is used in the dough.

Peter


Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21843
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Found Giordanos ingredient list (Peter can you look at this?)
« Reply #44 on: February 05, 2014, 12:51:17 PM »
Peter,

Thank you for the information how the Ventura margarine product compares with Giordano's margarine product. 

Thanks also for explaining about the spots in the dough at Giordano's and how they might have gotten there.  It is interesting if soybean oil is only used in the dough what might cause those spots. 

When I was searching about Giordano's stuffed pizza I found it interesting what I read on Slice.  The article said Giordano's and Nancy's both opened in Chicago around the same time.  Giordano's says their stuffed pizza is based on their mother's Easter pizza while Nancy's claims its pizzas is based on an Italian pastry.  I wonder if there is more to that story about their dough making methods and if both of their doughs are pastry related.  http://chicago.seriouseats.com/2008/06/giordanos-stuffed-pizza-classic-chicago-illinois.html   

I also watched many videos of the employees opening their dough, dressing the pizzas and twirling the skins at Giordano's.  I was trying to get a feel of either how their dough looked or handled.

In my email to Giordano's I started off as saying I would like to order some of their frozen pizzas to try them.  I guess I made the mistake of saying I have some trouble with higher gluten flours.  I did ask other questions about their margarine and Nutrition Facts, but only got a reply about their flour.  I may need to rethink what I asked and write to them again.  I could say I still would like to try their frozen pizzas.  Do you have any other questions I could ask it a discreet way?

This was the reply I received from Giordano's today:

Hello Norma!

Thank you so much for taking the time to write us!  Unfortunately, Giordano’s does use a higher gluten flour in the production of our pizzas.

Sorry to disappoint!

Thank you again for contacting Giordano’s!

Customer Service

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline Chicago Bob

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10433
  • Location: North Carolina
  • Easy peazzy
Re: Found Giordanos ingredient list (Peter can you look at this?)
« Reply #45 on: February 05, 2014, 12:56:23 PM »
Just a heads up...wouldn't doubt that Giordanos knows who "Norma" and "Peter" are. Ya'll might want to change your names in the emails.   :-D

Bob
« Last Edit: February 05, 2014, 01:11:28 PM by Chicago Bob »
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21843
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Found Giordanos ingredient list (Peter can you look at this?)
« Reply #46 on: February 05, 2014, 01:15:30 PM »
Just a heads up...wouldn't doubt that Giordanos knows who "Norma" and "Peter" are. Ya'll might want to change your names in the emails.  :)

Bob

Bob,

Part of my real email address does have Norma in it so I really can't change that.  If worse comes to worse I can use my one daughter's email address.  I think we are getting the run around though when Giordano's told Peter the dough contains all-purpose flour and they told me they use high gluten flour.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22003
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Found Giordanos ingredient list (Peter can you look at this?)
« Reply #47 on: February 05, 2014, 03:00:31 PM »
Norma,

I had recalled from reading another Slice/Serious Eats article, at http://chicago.seriouseats.com/2011/07/chicago-essential-giordanos.html, that the flour said to be used at Giordano's at the time was high gluten flour. That was back in 2011, when Giordano's was in bankruptcy proceedings. Because I wasn't convinced that Giordano's was actually using "high gluten" flour which, as Tom Lehmann has mentioned before is not a defined industry term and can mean several possible things, I intentionally mentioned all-purpose flour to see if I would be told that that was not the flour they were using, and hoping that they would correct me by giving me the right answer. Also, in the back of my mind I was thinking that Giordano's was using the Ceresota/Heckers all-purpose flour which, in addition to being a local and readily available flour in the Chicago area, also happens to have a higher protein content than most all-purpose flours and, hence, a higher gluten content than other all-purpose flours. According to the Heckers/Ceresota website at http://heckersceresota.com/nutrition.html, the Heckers and Ceresota all-purpose flours have a protein content of 12%. That is even higher than the King Arthur all-purpose flour which, at 11.7%, is higher than most all-purpose flours. There are also all-purpose flours, such as H&R flours, that are as low as 9% or thereabouts. So, in the above context, the person at Giordano's who responded to your email was arguably on firm ground in saying that the Giordano's flour is a high gluten flour. It is all relative.

To add to the confusion, the abovereferenced article said that there was shortening used in the dough. The article that you cited also said the same thing but, in a comment to that article, it was reported that, according to the GM and executive chef at Giordano's at the time, there was no shortening in the dough. Another thing I confirmed in the Serious Eats article I cited was that the cheese--said to be whole milk mozzarella cheese--was shredded in-house. So, at least in that respect, the ingredients list that Nate provided for the heart shaped pizza was in proper form, although it now appears that Giordano's may be using a blend of low moisture whole milk mozzarella cheese and low moisture part-skim mozzarella cheese.

BTW, in communicating with Giordano's, the first time I used an alias but the second time I used Peter.

Peter


Offline pythonic

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 2095
  • Age: 36
  • Location: Crest Hill, IL
  • Pizza......its what's for dinner!
Re: Found Giordanos ingredient list (Peter can you look at this?)
« Reply #48 on: February 05, 2014, 03:32:57 PM »
Very unlikely they are using 100% AP flour.  Their dough is dry and dense but it isn't bready at all.  The raw dough is very strong as well as they twirl it around.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2014, 03:43:04 PM by pythonic »
If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball.

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22003
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Found Giordanos ingredient list (Peter can you look at this?)
« Reply #49 on: February 05, 2014, 03:37:31 PM »
Between my last two posts, I decided to call one of the Orlando-area Giordano's to delve into the question of where the Florida Giordano's stores get their dough. I decided, arbitrarily, to call the Orlando Giordano's at W. Sand Lake Road, where I spoke to a manager who answered the phone. I started by telling him that I was considering a trip to the Orlando area (my first fabrication) and that, as a pizza lover, friends had suggested that I try their stuffed pizza (my second fabrication). I then told him that I had read somewhere on the Internet that one of the Florida Giordano's may have been using frozen dough, or dough that may have been frozen at some point (this was true). I also expressed concern that their pizza might not be the same or as good as those in the Chicago-area Giordano's stores.

As to the frozen dough remark, the manager responded that their dough is not frozen and, is in fact make in-store. He said the same is true of the Chicago-area stores where the dough is delivered from the commissary to their stores three times a week, and always fresh and not frozen. He made a point of emphasizing the freshness of everything they do.

As for the question of similarity between their stuffed pizzas and the Chicago-area counterparts, he said that they use the same dough recipe as used in the Chicago area and they follow the instructions given to them from Chicago. He said that there were some differences but that they were minor.

If what I was told about the dough being made in-store is true, that begs the question as to how they specifically make the dough and, more particularly, how they get the layering effect in the crust as has been discussed in this, and related, threads.

Peter


Offline pythonic

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 2095
  • Age: 36
  • Location: Crest Hill, IL
  • Pizza......its what's for dinner!
Re: Found Giordanos ingredient list (Peter can you look at this?)
« Reply #50 on: February 05, 2014, 03:45:27 PM »
Very interesting.  Fat flakes?
If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball.

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21843
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Found Giordanos ingredient list (Peter can you look at this?)
« Reply #51 on: February 05, 2014, 03:59:23 PM »
Norma,

I had recalled from reading another Slice/Serious Eats article, at http://chicago.seriouseats.com/2011/07/chicago-essential-giordanos.html, that the flour said to be used at Giordano's at the time was high gluten flour. That was back in 2011, when Giordano's was in bankruptcy proceedings. Because I wasn't convinced that Giordano's was actually using "high gluten" flour which, as Tom Lehmann has mentioned before is not a defined industry term and can mean several possible things, I intentionally mentioned all-purpose flour to see if I would be told that that was not the flour they were using, and hoping that they would correct me by giving me the right answer. Also, in the back of my mind I was thinking that Giordano's was using the Ceresota/Heckers all-purpose flour which, in addition to being a local and readily available flour in the Chicago area, also happens to have a higher protein content than most all-purpose flours and, hence, a higher gluten content than other all-purpose flours. According to the Heckers/Ceresota website at http://heckersceresota.com/nutrition.html, the Heckers and Ceresota all-purpose flours have a protein content of 12%. That is even higher than the King Arthur all-purpose flour which, at 11.7%, is higher than most all-purpose flours. There are also all-purpose flours, such as H&R flours, that are as low as 9% or thereabouts. So, in the above context, the person at Giordano's who responded to your email was arguably on firm ground in saying that the Giordano's flour is a high gluten flour. It is all relative.

To add to the confusion, the abovereferenced article said that there was shortening used in the dough. The article that you cited also said the same thing but, in a comment to that article, it was reported that, according to the GM and executive chef at Giordano's at the time, there was no shortening in the dough. Another thing I confirmed in the Serious Eats article I cited was that the cheese--said to be whole milk mozzarella cheese--was shredded in-house. So, at least in that respect, the ingredients list that Nate provided for the heart shaped pizza was in proper form, although it now appears that Giordano's may be using a blend of low moisture whole milk mozzarella cheese and low moisture part-skim mozzarella cheese.

BTW, in communicating with Giordano's, the first time I used an alias but the second time I used Peter.

Peter


Peter,

When I wrote the questions to Giordano's I wrote I have some problems with higher gluten flours, but most lower protein flours do not seem to bother me.  I know the term “high gluten” flour can mean a lot of things.  Your way of writing for answers is a lot better than mine. 

Maybe you will think of a way to find out if there is margarine or something like margarine in Giordano's dough.

Smart move in using an alias the first time and Peter the second time when communicating with Giordano's.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22003
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Found Giordanos ingredient list (Peter can you look at this?)
« Reply #52 on: February 05, 2014, 05:39:34 PM »
Maybe you will think of a way to find out if there is margarine or something like margarine in Giordano's dough.
Norma,

In my last email to Giordano's, I specifically asked if margarine was used in the dough for their stuffed pizzas, and while I did not get a direct "no" answer to that question, the ingredients list given to me did not include margarine. So, there is either no margarine in the dough or they are not telling us the truth.

Peter

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22003
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Found Giordanos ingredient list (Peter can you look at this?)
« Reply #53 on: February 05, 2014, 06:02:17 PM »
Very unlikely they are using 100% AP flour.  Their dough is dry and dense but it isn't bready at all.  The raw dough is very strong as well as they twirl it around.

Nate,

I believe the high gluten flour comment was atttributed to the executive chef that was at Giordano's in 2008. See, for example, the interview of Leo Spizzirri at http://www.chicagopizzaclub.com/2008/10/chicago-pizza-interview-leo-spizzirri.html. I have no way of knowing whether Leo or the person who sent me the ingredients list with the all-purpose flour is correct. You might also be interested in knowing that in its early days Giordano's used Ceresota flour.

FYI, Wikipedia also mentions the use by Giordano's of a flour high in gluten: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giordano's_Pizzeria

Peter
« Last Edit: February 05, 2014, 08:23:48 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22003
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Found Giordanos ingredient list (Peter can you look at this?)
« Reply #54 on: February 05, 2014, 06:08:07 PM »
Very interesting.  Fat flakes?
Nate,

It could be. Unlike margarine and margarine-like products, fat flakes can be fairly simple, without a lot of ingredients or additives. However, I have not seen enough specs for fat flakes to get an understanding of their actual compositions. But soybean oil can certainly be used to make fat flakes. I did a little research to see if fat flakes have to be identified as such under FDA rules but did not find anything to that effect.

Peter

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21843
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Found Giordanos ingredient list (Peter can you look at this?)
« Reply #55 on: February 06, 2014, 08:06:42 AM »
If anyone is interested I found a place to get a sample of fat flakes.  I wanted to try to get some to see if I could make a crust that looked something like the one Zoe posted on her thread.  I should be getting the sample of the fat flakes in a few weeks and if anyone wants me to try some of them on an attempted Giordano's dough I can.  The sample I am getting is the soy flake.  I had a choice between the soy version and the regular flake.  The soy flake has Trans Fat and the Palm flake has no Trans Fat. 

What I found interesting is that the product name is biscuit flakes.  The soy flake product description is this:

A white shortening flake intended to impart increased flakiness to baked goods, such as biscuits, dinner rolls, and pizza crusts.  The physical characteristics and stability of the product are particularly conducive to dry mix applications.

The shortening flakes can be used by itself or with other shortenings.

As far as what BTB saw in the yellow specks in the dough at Giordano's this soy flake would not work out because it is white.  I am not saying Giordano's is using fat flakes in their dough.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline pythonic

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 2095
  • Age: 36
  • Location: Crest Hill, IL
  • Pizza......its what's for dinner!
Re: Found Giordanos ingredient list (Peter can you look at this?)
« Reply #56 on: February 06, 2014, 09:32:15 AM »
If anyone is interested I found a place to get a sample of fat flakes.  I wanted to try to get some to see if I could make a crust that looked something like the one Zoe posted on her thread.  I should be getting the sample of the fat flakes in a few weeks and if anyone wants me to try some of them on an attempted Giordano's dough I can.  The sample I am getting is the soy flake.  I had a choice between the soy version and the regular flake.  The soy flake has Trans Fat and the Palm flake has no Trans Fat. 

What I found interesting is that the product name is biscuit flakes.  The soy flake product description is this:

A white shortening flake intended to impart increased flakiness to baked goods, such as biscuits, dinner rolls, and pizza crusts.  The physical characteristics and stability of the product are particularly conducive to dry mix applications.

The shortening flakes can be used by itself or with other shortenings.

As far as what BTB saw in the yellow specks in the dough at Giordano's this soy flake would not work out because it is white.  I am not saying Giordano's is using fat flakes in their dough.

Norma

Norma,

I am definitely interested.  Can you please PM me the info?

Nate
If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball.

Offline norma427

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 21843
  • Location: Lancaster County, Pa.
    • learningknowledgetomakepizza
Re: Found Giordanos ingredient list (Peter can you look at this?)
« Reply #57 on: February 06, 2014, 10:12:09 AM »
Norma,

I am definitely interested.  Can you please PM me the info?

Nate


Nate,

I got the sample of fat flakes from Bunge after a few emails of what I wanted to do with them.  http://www.bunge.com/Food-and-Ingredients   I have no idea what the sample size will be but if it is big enough I can send you some to try if you can't obtain any.

These are also some other companies that carry fat flakes.  http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/GettingHealthy/FatsAndOils/FacetheFatsRestaurantResources/Roll-InFlake-Shortenings---PastryDanishBiscuit-For-RestaurantsBakeries_UCM_304613_Article.jsp 

I am waiting for a sales rep to call me from Cargill to see how much their fat flakes would cost. http://www.cargillfoods.com/na/en/products/oils-shortenings/Products/flakes/index.jsp

The Dew Fresh Margarine might be another possibility to try from Bunge, although it does not say it is Kosher.  I am not good with the ingredient lists so I am not sure.  https://www.bungenorthamerica.com/products/89-dew-fresh-margarine-quarters  My one local distributor carries the Dew Fresh Margarine.

If you have any other questions you PM me.

Norma
Always working and looking for new information!

Offline pythonic

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 2095
  • Age: 36
  • Location: Crest Hill, IL
  • Pizza......its what's for dinner!
Re: Found Giordanos ingredient list (Peter can you look at this?)
« Reply #58 on: February 06, 2014, 11:26:17 AM »
Thanks Norma.  Giordanos crust has a very distinct flavor to it so maybe this is the missing link.

Nate
If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball.

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 22003
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Found Giordanos ingredient list (Peter can you look at this?)
« Reply #59 on: February 06, 2014, 11:38:05 AM »
Norma,

The Dew Fresh Margarine (https://www.bungenorthamerica.com/products/89-dew-fresh-margarine-quarters) is similar to the retail-level Imperial margarine product such as shown at http://www.foodfacts.com/NutritionFacts/Light-Margarine/Imperial-Margarine-Vegetable-Oil-16-oz/23965 except that the Imperial product may not quite have at least 80% soybean oil. The Ventura margarine (http://www.dutchvalleyfoods.com/products/baking/oils-and-shortenings/shortenings/248049/ventura-foods-solid-margarine-30-1lb) looks to be closer to what Giordano's uses, presumably in the pans as previously discussed.

Peter