Author Topic: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust  (Read 8245 times)

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Offline vcb

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Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
« Reply #25 on: January 22, 2014, 01:09:42 PM »
Nah. That's no fun.  ;D
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Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
« Reply #26 on: January 22, 2014, 01:13:10 PM »
I got blasted and flamed for sharing information that was intended to be helpful. If you guys don't want me here, fine.
Ryan
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Disclaimer: Don't necessarily believe anything I say here. My brain ain't quite right anymore (unless it is). If I come off as rude or argumentative, that's probably not my intention. Rather, that's just me being honest, to myself and everyone else; partly because I don't have enough time left to BS either you or myself. If you are offended by anything I say, it's probably because you think lying to people (to be "polite") is a good idea. I don't.

Offline Garvey

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Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
« Reply #27 on: January 22, 2014, 01:15:27 PM »
Cal City Sauce*
28 oz Cento crushed tomatoes, drained for 5 minutes
1 1/2 tsp salt
1/2 pepper
1 tsp oregano
1 tsp basil
1 1/2 tsp sugar
1/2 tsp Italian seasoning
1/8 tsp garlic powder
1/4 tsp onion powder


*Calumet City, IL, was the home of a particular sub-genre of Chicago thin.  John's was the most famous purveyor and has been much imitated by the likes of Langels and various other joints.  The signature characteristics of this style are (1) the somewhat doughier crust with "bones" (small by NY standard but slightly larger than the nearly nonexistent bones of typical Chicago thin) and (2) crumbled sausage instead of chunk.  As such, the sauce is usually brighter than other Chicago thin--both in a color sense and a culinary sense--which certainly helps balance the dough and sausage differences.  This sauce approximates the style.

Offline Garvey

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Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
« Reply #28 on: January 22, 2014, 01:18:24 PM »
I got blasted and flamed for sharing information that was intended to be helpful. If you guys don't want me here, fine.

Dude, reread your posts.  "There's no such thing as Chicago thin" and "Most genuinely good pizzas don't require an elaborate sauce....Usually when a pizzeria's sauce has a lot of added flavorings, it's mostly in an effort to mask a crappy tomato product" are prime examples of threadcrapping.

You were hardly blasted or flamed, by me or anyone else.   

Offline vcb

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Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
« Reply #29 on: January 22, 2014, 01:19:02 PM »
... and still no sauce recipe from him.

Sometimes, you just have to shake your head.  ::)


Thanks for posting the sauce recipes, Garvey!  :D
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Offline Garvey

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Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
« Reply #30 on: January 22, 2014, 01:29:52 PM »
No need to insult other styles of pizza Garvey.  Less ingredients does not equate to a "blander, forgettable sauce".

No insults, Wahoo.  I was only replying to Ryan's assertion that Tommy's sauce was bad.  And it's not a style thing: most sauce--from sea to shining sea--is demonstrably bad. 

Quote
Starting from paste, yes, but not for all tomato products.  I would argue that the Chicago styles of pizza probably evolved from a lack of fresh, quality ingredients.  The addition of herbs and spices to the Chicago sauce was most likely to add some much needed interest to an otherwise boring paste-based sauce.  This is not to say that Chicago sauce is inferior, but I would find it hard to believe that anyone prefers straight tomato paste to good san marzanos out of the can.  Neapolitan pizza (and some NY) is all about preserving the flavors in the ingredients, while Chicago pizza is more about taking less exotic (read:worse) ingredients and making the final product greater than the sum of its parts.  There is beauty to be found in both philosophies.

I agree with some of this but not all.  Paste has a caramelized flavor that is desirable in many applications.  It is not an inferior product but a different one.  San Marzanos, out of the can, will work great for certain dishes, certain pizzas, etc., and for some things, they wouldn't work at all.  Same goes for paste.   

As for the food historicism aspects of all this, I dunno.  Interesting theory, but you're essentially asserting, "Chicago pizza is an alchemy of turning crap into gold."  I guess we can't all be as awesome as Naples or NY.   :'(

Offline wahoo88

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Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
« Reply #31 on: January 22, 2014, 03:05:18 PM »
As for the food historicism aspects of all this, I dunno.  Interesting theory, but you're essentially asserting, "Chicago pizza is an alchemy of turning crap into gold."  I guess we can't all be as awesome as Naples or NY.   :'(

If that's your opinion, fine.  I, on the other hand, think that "turning crap into gold" is interesting and in many respects more difficult than just starting with "gold".  My response was not favoring one variety over the other, though. 


I agree with some of this but not all.  Paste has a caramelized flavor that is desirable in many applications.  It is not an inferior product but a different one.  San Marzanos, out of the can, will work great for certain dishes, certain pizzas, etc., and for some things, they wouldn't work at all.  Same goes for paste.   

Agreed, but my main point was that san marzanos have better captured the flavor of a fresh ripe tomato better than paste does.  Paste is favorable in many situations, but it is hard to argue that tomato paste has better captured the essence of a fresh tomato; it is inferior at this specific task. 
Dan

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
« Reply #32 on: January 22, 2014, 04:11:12 PM »
Well, here's another fine thread that has gone awry....I think you are all making some good points and if pride could be set aside; look back and see the positive in each post, and maybe this endeavor of Ed's can be salvaged. Otherwise, no one is going to have a resource available that they first have to weed through the chingao for the good stuff. At least not at this rate.....

Bob
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Offline vcb

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Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
« Reply #33 on: January 22, 2014, 04:41:43 PM »

Let's just say that the style of sauce that you typically find in a Chicago style thin crust pizza
predominantly leans toward the canned, and/or concentrated variety of tomato, and not fresh. 

A puree, or in most cases, paste plus water, is what I think will get us the flavor base we're shooting for.

** I have typically experienced that people in Chicagoland just call it "thin crust",
but I call it "Chicago style thin crust" to differentiate it from other thin crust
from other cities, which may be similar, or not similar to the style.
Arguments on whether the style exists have already taken place in other threads.
WE'RE TALKIN' CHICAGO THIN CRUST SAUCE HERE! Let's keep it civil and on topic, OK? OK. S'alright? S'alright. :-) **

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Offline Musky

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Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
« Reply #34 on: January 22, 2014, 10:01:15 PM »
I like to make Wisconsin Thin Crust pizza sauce using a little of this, a little of that, and sometimes even a little whatnot.  Sometimes I use paste, sometimes puree, sometimes a crushed product like 6 in 1.  I rarely am looking to have the sauce taste exactly the same way every time.  And I always go light on the sauce.  Most pizzas have way too much sauce.

Of course, that's for Wisconsin Thin Crust pizza.  It's probably a lot different than Chicago Thin Crust.

Kevin


Offline Garvey

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Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
« Reply #35 on: January 22, 2014, 10:03:27 PM »
A puree, or in most cases, paste plus water, is what I think will get us the flavor base we're shooting for.

Interestingly enough, some brands of purée list only two ingredients on the can: tomato paste and water.  The grocery store brand nearby is one such, and IIRC, there are a few others.  Classico purée, OTOH, is the real deal.

And I always go light on the sauce.  Most pizzas have way too much sauce.

Is that a personal preference or a Wisconsin thing?  I often find the opposite--not nearly enough sauce.  Most places, I need to ask for a little extra sauce when ordering.  That's a personal preference, I think, but a few of my friends have expressed the same thing (fellow Chicagoland ex-pats) where they live.  Maybe Chicago goes a little heavier than typical on the sauce, and we grew up used to that.  (That's one of the things I love about frozen HRI: it is the sauciest pie in the frozen section, by far.)

Well, here's another fine thread that has gone awry....I think you are all making some good points and if pride could be set aside; look back and see the positive in each post, and maybe this endeavor of Ed's can be salvaged.

I may have been overly long winded in my post about paste, but I stand by it.  If I can't be a pizza chauvinist HERE, on the Chicago forum, then where can I be?  :D  The Neo/NY fans are always looking down on us Second City folks...second class, I tell ya!   ;)

(BTW,your irony meter broken, Bob?)

« Last Edit: January 22, 2014, 10:16:54 PM by Garvey »

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
« Reply #36 on: January 22, 2014, 10:11:01 PM »
I like to make Wisconsin Thin Crust pizza sauce using a little of this, a little of that, and sometimes even a little whatnot.  Sometimes I use paste, sometimes puree, sometimes a crushed product like 6 in 1.  I rarely am looking to have the sauce taste exactly the same way every time.  And I always go light on the sauce.  Most pizzas have way too much sauce.

Of course, that's for Wisconsin Thin Crust pizza.  It's probably a lot different than Chicago Thin Crust.

Kevin
You're absolutely right Kevin. Us folks in Chicago measure everything so get the hell out with that and don't come back till you understand the rules.  ;D

Bob
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Offline dmckean44

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Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
« Reply #37 on: January 22, 2014, 10:30:54 PM »
Is that a personal preference or a Wisconsin thing?  I often find the opposite--not nearly enough sauce.  Most places, I need to ask for a little extra sauce when ordering.  That's a personal preference, I think, but a few of my friends have expressed the same thing (fellow Chicagoland ex-pats) where they live.  Maybe Chicago goes a little heavier than typical on the sauce, and we grew up used to that.  (That's one of the things I love about frozen HRI: it is the sauciest pie in the frozen section, by far.)

It's a Chicago thing, I grew up downstate in Peoria but I lived briefly in Chicagoland for a while about 15 years ago. The pies were similar but in general a Chicago thin crust is going to be more heavily sauced than say Monical's.

Offline Musky

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Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
« Reply #38 on: January 22, 2014, 10:36:58 PM »
You're absolutely right Kevin. Us folks in Chicago measure everything so get the hell out with that and don't come back till you understand the rules.  ;D

Bob

I've had it with you snobs and your carefully measured sauces, your sauce on top casseroles,  and your perennially mediocre professional football team.  I might go to your Chit Chat thread and make thinly veiled insults.

I really do think most pizzas have way too much sauce.  We have some fantastic thin crust here in the Milwaukee area, and I almost always go light on the sauce.  Personal preference I guess.  Probably why I get by with the little of this, a little of that, and maybe some whatnot style of sauce making.  I do the same thing when I make pasta sauce.

And get the hell out of the way when I make meatballs, because the air gets filled with spices when I start tossing them in the meat.

Kevin


Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
« Reply #39 on: January 22, 2014, 10:41:48 PM »


(BTW,your irony meter broken, Bob?)
Well, I don't think so Garvey....my G/F said all my shirts came out fine on Sunday(that's her chore day).  ;D

Bob
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Offline vcb

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Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
« Reply #40 on: January 22, 2014, 10:48:02 PM »
*we now return to the sauce currently in progress...*

VIDEO: Vito & Nicks from Chicago's Best:


They put the sauce on about 1 and 1/2 minutes in.
You can see they put down a good amount and go all the way to the edge.
I'm guessing a 6oz, but could possibly an 8oz ladle.

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Offline Jackitup

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Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
« Reply #41 on: January 22, 2014, 10:56:27 PM »
Hopefully this will simmer down and be a helpful thread. We should all be objective and appreciate what can be gotten from this thread like the many others on this forum. I like pretty much most styles of pizza and like them on their own merits and try to keep the purist attitude out of it. Purism I feel should be kept case specific, NP should meet certain criteria, NY style should meet it's own etc, but not any rule or criteria should or can control all otherwise it would all be the same pizza!! I like beans in chili too :-D Good without them also!
As I've said before, I love Garvey's sauce but choose to thicken with tomato juice (Sacramento) and with his seasoning made in bulk I can ramp up or down the strength of the sauce. I also like fennel in a sauce so in the bulk mix I add a bit more of it and also added the Aleppo flakes, a BIG plus. A buddy of mine LOVES a sweeter sauce so when he's over I add some honey to taste to meet his likes. I'll also use the bulk seasoning as a shake on just before putting in the oven. Also when you make the spice in bulk one can tailor to the own tastes. Regardless of paste, sauce, drained whole tomatoes and crushed etc, Garvey's pizza seasoning in bulk is one of the better contributions to this forum and a PERFECT starter base for adding to your pizza arsenal and tweak to your needs 
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,17662.msg284695.html#msg284695

jon
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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
« Reply #42 on: January 22, 2014, 11:05:13 PM »
And we now have yet another recipe.

Bob
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Offline mrmojo1

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Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
« Reply #43 on: January 25, 2014, 07:40:05 AM »
no!  this is good! look! feel! hear! you can smell  the passion!!  no one said this would be easy.  lay it down!!!   sharp corners with time become smooth curves.  ok....ive had a few beers.........dang!
"My Doctor says I swallow a lot of aggression.  Along with a lot of pizzas!!"

Offline Old Red

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Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
« Reply #44 on: January 25, 2014, 08:39:09 AM »
Garvey, In Reply #27 Cal City Sauce you write that a characteristic is, " . . (2) crumbled sausage instead of chunk." Do you mean it's precooked? Can't imagine crumbling the raw sausage I get.

Thanks, Red

Offline Garvey

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Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
« Reply #45 on: January 25, 2014, 10:35:46 AM »
Red:

I may post this as a separate thread, to make it easier for people to find later, but here is the explanation.  Where I grew up, there were certain joints that did the crumbled sausage.  Still do.  It gives great coverage, and its saltiness is a counterbalance to the sweet sauce.

It had long stumped me how these places got the sausage to a format that would go on a pizza.  Like you said, you can't exactly "crumble" raw sausage.  It would just be a sticky mess.  And I've never seen a rangetop in one of these pizza joints, where they could be frying up the sausage beforehand.  I've tried that method, and it is terrible.  There is too much flavor loss, since frying renders out too much fat.  Ultimately, I don't know how we stumbled upon this method.  Someone might have tipped me off over at slice/seriouseats (Kenji or another commenter?), or my buddies and I just talked it through and figured it out.  It had to be accomplished by oven alone.  So the method is to make a thick, hamburger-like patty and bake it in the hot pizza oven (e.g., in a cutter pan or whatnot) for 5-7 minutes, which is just enough to get it to set but still raw enough that you're not losing too much flavor before going onto the pizza.

Crumbled Pizza Sausage
  • Remove sausage from casings or use bulk sausage
  • Form into large, thick hamburger patty, 8-12 oz in weight
  • Place in cutter pan or pie pan, etc.
  • Bake in hot pizza oven for 5-7 minutes until outside is browned a bit.  Do not overcook: the meat will be just set but still underdone and pinkish throughout the patty--no longer raw but not truly cooked, either.
  • Let cool for a few minutes until it can be handled or until room temp (your choice)
  • Use your hands to break it up or crumble it into the pan or directly onto a pizza (I prefer the latter)


Cheers,
Garvey
« Last Edit: January 25, 2014, 10:38:53 AM by Garvey »

Offline Old Red

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Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
« Reply #46 on: January 25, 2014, 04:21:17 PM »
Thank you Sir. I will give it a try.

Offline PizzaGarage

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Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
« Reply #47 on: January 28, 2014, 11:32:27 PM »
Here is a classic Stanislaus puree pizza sauce which is not overpowering nor too sweet.  Requires 24 hour fridge prior to use, lasts for 3 days.

#10 can Stanislaus heavy puree
7 cups cold water
1/8 cup table salt ( non iodized)
1/8 cup garlic powder ( not granulated)
1/12 cup course black pepper
1/4 cup domestic romano fine grate
1/8 cup white sugar
1/4 cup majoram



Add herbs to water and let hydrate for 10 minutes then add to sauce.

I agree with some comments about the Chicago thin sauce.  Some are very plain which rely more on toppings and crust others are signature ( the great places ) and others are overpowering and full of oregano.

Quantity

10" 3 oz
12" 4 oz
14" 6 oz
16" 8 oz

1/2 inch sauce less border

 
« Last Edit: January 28, 2014, 11:36:10 PM by PizzaGarage »

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
« Reply #48 on: January 28, 2014, 11:38:02 PM »
Here is a classic Stanislaus puree pizza sauce which is not overpowering nor too sweet.  Requires 24 hour fridge prior to use, lasts for 3 days.

#10 can Stanislaus heavy puree
7 cups cold water
1/8 cup table salt ( non iodized)
1/8 cup garlic powder ( not granulated)
1/12 cup course black pepper
1/4 cup domestic romano fine grate
1/8 cup white sugar
1/4 cup majoram



Add herbs to water and let hydrate for 10 minutes then add to sauce.

I agree with some comments about the Chicago thin sauce.  Some are very plain which rely more on toppings and crust others are signature ( the great places ) and others are overpowering and full of oregano.

Quantity

10" 3 oz
12" 4 oz
14" 6 oz
16" 8 oz

1/2 inch sauce less border
Is that from their web site PG?

Bob
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline Jackitup

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Re: Sauce Recipes for Chicago Thin Crust
« Reply #49 on: January 28, 2014, 11:45:09 PM »
I would give that 5-7 days for fridge life

jon
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