Author Topic: Star Tavern NJ memories from former employee  (Read 12126 times)

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Offline Tscarborough

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Re: Star Tavern NJ memories from former employee
« Reply #150 on: March 30, 2014, 11:02:59 PM »
Those are some good looking pizzas, but come on Man, 16" minimum!


Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Star Tavern NJ memories from former employee
« Reply #151 on: March 30, 2014, 11:18:21 PM »
I like your dedication,effort on this deal Adam. Thanks for the pics.
Keep after it man....looks like you are getting very close.  8)

CB
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Offline akuban

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Re: Star Tavern NJ memories from former employee
« Reply #152 on: March 31, 2014, 11:48:22 AM »
Those are some good looking pizzas, but come on Man, 16" minimum!

What?!? 16" is too big for a bar pie! I did 12" because it's what would fit in my toaster oven(!) for testing in the summer, when it's too hot in our apartment to run our regular oven. Ideally, if I opened a place doing bar pies, I'd go up to 13", because I like that number -- "Lucky 13"!

I like your dedication,effort on this deal Adam. Thanks for the pics.
Keep after it man....looks like you are getting very close.  8)

CB

Thanks! Still a couple tweaks I'm going to do for our next run-through, but it's close enough that I'll probably go to "market" as is, solicit feedback from friends/family, and make changes accordingly.
¡Hasta la pizza!

Offline norma427

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Re: Star Tavern NJ memories from former employee
« Reply #153 on: March 31, 2014, 06:50:39 PM »
I used the same dough formulation I used before for the Star pizza attempts.  I am going to use a blend of the two mozzarella cheeses shown in the photo.  I am also using the Vermont Smoked Pepperoni because it curls when baked.

Norma

Offline waltertore

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Re: Star Tavern NJ memories from former employee
« Reply #154 on: March 31, 2014, 07:10:52 PM »
Adam: Those pies look great!  I especially like the 3rd photo.    It is funny how we often start with the 99% of right stuff and have to make lots of tweaks till we figure out the right combo of things.  That is the fun part :) Life is this way- if you are doing it right you end up at the end of it with the same soul notes that you were born with and are able to shed the static/confusion/kaos that grew around them on the journey that life takes us on.  It takes a lifetime to shed the meaningless stuff in order to realize what the essence is even though we knew it as infants with no wasted energy/static/distraction.  Just pure groove.   That is something that no youtube video can get you to-only time can.  It sounds like you are developing a twist for the NYC scene?   Walter
« Last Edit: March 31, 2014, 07:19:59 PM by waltertore »

Offline norma427

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Re: Star Tavern NJ memories from former employee
« Reply #155 on: April 01, 2014, 10:40:54 PM »
This was the Star Tavern attempt today.  I didn't have time to try the other dough ball.  I would say an attempt on a Star Tavern pizza makes a mess on the stone.

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: Star Tavern NJ memories from former employee
« Reply #156 on: April 01, 2014, 10:42:33 PM »
Norma

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Star Tavern NJ memories from former employee
« Reply #157 on: April 01, 2014, 10:54:08 PM »
I think that's your best looking one yet Norma.
Have you tried that mix with a bit lower hydration yet?
Tasty looking pie girl!  8)
Bummer about the mess they make huh?  ;D

Bob
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Offline norma427

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Re: Star Tavern NJ memories from former employee
« Reply #158 on: April 01, 2014, 11:33:18 PM »
I think that's your best looking one yet Norma.
Have you tried that mix with a bit lower hydration yet?
Tasty looking pie girl!  8)
Bummer about the mess they make huh?  ;D

Bob

Bob,

It might have been my best looking Star attempt, but it didn't taste as good in the crust as the others did.  The bottom crust was not baked enough.  I have not tried the formulation with less water. 

I don't think I am going to make too many attempts at a Star Tavern pizza at market.  I didn't take a photo after the pizza came off of the deck but it sure was too messed up for me.

Norma


Offline akuban

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Re: Star Tavern NJ memories from former employee
« Reply #159 on: April 02, 2014, 03:06:44 PM »
How do you think Star keeps theirs from getting too messy? Just not cheesing it out as far? Years of experience? The Stamford CT bar pies (Colony and Riko's) don't have cutaway pans, so no mess there. I don't do the cutaway thing with mine, so once it bakes and "sets" in the pan, I can turn it out and there's no mess. Still wondering how Star manages to keep theirs neat.
¡Hasta la pizza!

Offline Mmmph

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Re: Star Tavern NJ memories from former employee
« Reply #160 on: April 02, 2014, 03:15:34 PM »
How do you think Star keeps theirs from getting too messy?

Here's a pic of Star Tavern's oven.
Adam, I hope you don't make the WFO your borrowing look like Star's stone floor.
You drop cheese on that floor and baking on that spot will be a problem.
But, hey, you know that from Paulie Gee's...Yes?
Sono venuto, ho visto, ho mangiato

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Re: Star Tavern NJ memories from former employee
« Reply #161 on: April 02, 2014, 03:18:34 PM »
Actually, unlike a deck oven that may not get hot enough to burn off the cheese/grease on the floor, you can spread hot coals over a WFO oven floor and hit temps that will pretty easily burn that stuff off.

Offline waltertore

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Re: Star Tavern NJ memories from former employee
« Reply #162 on: April 02, 2014, 03:25:30 PM »
How do you think Star keeps theirs from getting too messy? Just not cheesing it out as far? Years of experience? The Stamford CT bar pies (Colony and Riko's) don't have cutaway pans, so no mess there. I don't do the cutaway thing with mine, so once it bakes and "sets" in the pan, I can turn it out and there's no mess. Still wondering how Star manages to keep theirs neat.

Adam:  I have eaten there 100 of times and I can tell you their decks are smoking big time all the time.  They have to seriously scrape inbetween runs as well.  They cheese/sauce to the end.  If things get black like in charcol on the ends they trim it before it goes out.   Personally I would not like making pies like this just for the mess factor.  They do not build a rim either.  It is rolled out. 

Norma:  That pie looks good but maybe a tad undcooked for star like.  How did it taste compared to Star?   My hat is off to you for trying it again!  Walter

Offline akuban

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Re: Star Tavern NJ memories from former employee
« Reply #163 on: April 02, 2014, 03:48:47 PM »
Here's a pic of Star Tavern's oven.
Adam, I hope you don't make the WFO your borrowing look like Star's stone floor.
You drop cheese on that floor and baking on that spot will be a problem.
But, hey, you know that from Paulie Gee's...Yes?

LOL, that's MY PICTURE from the write-up I did from Slice! Hahahaha. It's still hard to see from that pic what's going on, but yeah, it seems to bear out what Walter says below.

Scott123 is right. Any crud we got on the oven floor burned off the WFO. By the time I'm turning out the pizzas, they're pretty well "set," so not much gets on there. But, yeah, at the end of the night, whatever has, we can just spread some coals over and burn it clean.

¡Hasta la pizza!

Offline norma427

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Re: Star Tavern NJ memories from former employee
« Reply #164 on: April 02, 2014, 07:01:26 PM »
How do you think Star keeps theirs from getting too messy? Just not cheesing it out as far? Years of experience? The Stamford CT bar pies (Colony and Riko's) don't have cutaway pans, so no mess there. I don't do the cutaway thing with mine, so once it bakes and "sets" in the pan, I can turn it out and there's no mess. Still wondering how Star manages to keep theirs neat.

Adam,

When I talked to Gary at Star Tavern I asked him if the Star pizzas don't make a mess on his deck floors and he said yes his pizzas do make a mess on the stones.  Gary told me the big vents over the ovens and the other big round things on the other upper ceiling also take those flumes and smoke out of their kitchen.  The other big round things on the upper ceiling are also for air conditioning.  I could not imagine trying to deal with something like that at market because I don't have those big vents on my deck oven.

Adam:  I have eaten there 100 of times and I can tell you their decks are smoking big time all the time.  They have to seriously scrape inbetween runs as well.  They cheese/sauce to the end.  If things get black like in charcol on the ends they trim it before it goes out.   Personally I would not like making pies like this just for the mess factor.  They do not build a rim either.  It is rolled out. 

Norma:  That pie looks good but maybe a tad undcooked for star like.  How did it taste compared to Star?   My hat is off to you for trying it again!  Walter

As Walter posted Star does sauce and cheese to the edges.  I also watched that whole operation. 
Maybe that is why other pizzerias don't try to make a pizza like Star with those cut-away pans.
 
Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: Star Tavern NJ memories from former employee
« Reply #165 on: April 02, 2014, 07:09:13 PM »

Norma:  That pie looks good but maybe a tad undcooked for star like.  How did it taste compared to Star?   My hat is off to you for trying it again!  Walter


Walter,

The sauce, cheese blend part, and pepperoni of the Star attempt I tried did taste really good, but the lack of the bottom baking right make my attempt not like Star's.  I also used too much flour when rolling out the skin.  After the bake some flour could be seen on my cut-away pan and that flour could be tasted on the bottom crust when eaten.

Norma 

Offline norma427

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Re: Star Tavern NJ memories from former employee
« Reply #166 on: April 04, 2014, 08:26:05 AM »
The photo below is what Star Tavern's pizzeria looked like years ago.  The photo came from Star Tavern's facebook page and was posted as a “throwback Thursday”.

Norma


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Re: Star Tavern NJ memories from former employee
« Reply #167 on: April 04, 2014, 12:32:26 PM »
 adam, on your aluminum pans, season them very light with a vegetable oil and bake them for a few hours. a good way to oil you pans for use is block shortening you can apply it with a 4 inch pastry brush and put it on a little heavy till your pans are broken in,then you can back it off if you want. shorting doesn't absorb into the dough and will give you a nice crisp bottom. it will also stop sticking if you apply a nice coat . try american metalcraft for your pans. they make 14 gauge and 18 gauge.i use the lighter aluminum as it takes to long for the pans to heat in my 550 degree oven,and not allowing my bottom to brown. if you are using a wood oven the heavier pan might balance your bake better.not sure this will help, but i wanted to offer you this method. good luck!! larry  oh forgot to mention your bar pie on slice this week looks great!!!! your dough is secret yes??

Offline waltertore

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Re: Star Tavern NJ memories from former employee
« Reply #168 on: April 04, 2014, 01:21:49 PM »
The photo below is what Star Tavern's pizzeria looked like years ago.  The photo came from Star Tavern's facebook page and was posted as a “throwback Thursday”.

Norma

That might be me in that picture :)  That is how I remember Star as a teen.  That 1960's oldsmobile dates it.  Walter

Offline waltertore

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Re: Star Tavern NJ memories from former employee
« Reply #169 on: April 04, 2014, 02:43:07 PM »
Walter,

The sauce, cheese blend part, and pepperoni of the Star attempt I tried did taste really good, but the lack of the bottom baking right make my attempt not like Star's.  I also used too much flour when rolling out the skin.  After the bake some flour could be seen on my cut-away pan and that flour could be tasted on the bottom crust when eaten.

Norma

It sounds like you did a great job at it Norma- congragulations!  Walter

Offline norma427

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Re: Star Tavern NJ memories from former employee
« Reply #170 on: April 04, 2014, 05:37:17 PM »
That might be me in that picture :)  That is how I remember Star as a teen.  That 1960's oldsmobile dates it.  Walter

Walter,

That would be cool is that was you in that picture!  8)

It sounds like you did a great job at it Norma- congragulations!  Walter

Thanks, but the bottom crust was really off.  I will make another attempt when I find time.

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: Star Tavern NJ memories from former employee
« Reply #171 on: April 08, 2014, 10:33:44 PM »
I had wondered what happened to the other Star Tavern dough ball that I didn't have time last week to try out.  I found it yesterday when I went to put some Detroit style dough balls in pans in the one back side of the deli case.  I didn't have time to try the dough ball out today either, but thought it was interesting when I looked at it again today that it did not have any speckles on top of the dough ball and no bubbles on top of the dough ball.  The photos are from this morning.  I brought the dough ball along home to see if I might have time to bake it in a couple of days.

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: Star Tavern NJ memories from former employee
« Reply #172 on: April 10, 2014, 06:58:07 PM »
These are a few photos of the Star Tavern attempt in my Blackstone oven unit.  The dough ball was the same dough ball that I posted photos of at Reply 171 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=29785.msg311344#msg311344  The rest of the write-up and other photos start at Reply 534 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=26483.msg311616#msg311616 

Norma

Offline akuban

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Re: Star Tavern NJ memories from former employee
« Reply #173 on: April 11, 2014, 10:03:19 AM »
Norma: That looks fantastic. Were you satisfied with the crust bake on this one? What did you do differently? It looks very different. Is it that you did it more "Detroit-style" than "Star style"?

Did you use your same cut-off pan?
¡Hasta la pizza!

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Re: Star Tavern NJ memories from former employee
« Reply #174 on: April 11, 2014, 10:32:14 AM »
adam, on your aluminum pans, season them very light with a vegetable oil and bake them for a few hours. a good way to oil you pans for use is block shortening you can apply it with a 4 inch pastry brush and put it on a little heavy till your pans are broken in,then you can back it off if you want. shorting doesn't absorb into the dough and will give you a nice crisp bottom. it will also stop sticking if you apply a nice coat . try american metalcraft for your pans. they make 14 gauge and 18 gauge.i use the lighter aluminum as it takes to long for the pans to heat in my 550 degree oven,and not allowing my bottom to brown. if you are using a wood oven the heavier pan might balance your bake better.not sure this will help, but i wanted to offer you this method. good luck!! larry  oh forgot to mention your bar pie on slice this week looks great!!!! your dough is secret yes??

Larry! Thanks for the tips. I'm sorry for the late reply. I haven't been on PM for a while, and the dang email notifications seem to only get sent a quarter of the time that there are follow-up comments here.

ANYWAY. I'm using Pizzatools.com/Lloyd Pans aluminum pans, 14 gauge (so the heavier ones). I'm doing pretty much what you recommend for seasoning. I've been putting on a very thin layer of flaxseed oil — basically spreading on about a teaspoon with my hands/fingers and then wiping it away with a paper towel. I then place it in a cold oven, heat to 500°F,  and let it bake for 2 hours. I do 4–6 coats of that.

BUT last pan order, I tried out Lloyd's PSTK and was pleased with it. Good to know about American Metalcraft's 18 gauge for home use.

My dough recipe isn't so much a secret as much as that I have never written it down — it's a work in progress. I've basically tried out Norma's formulation, posted very early in this thread: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=29785.msg299009#msg299009

I use more salt, because I like a saltier dough (3%), and I put a little more oil — 6%.

The rest is basically, cook it in the pan until it "sets," then de-pan onto the oven floor OR baking steel/stone. At home, I place the pan on my Baking Steel (1/4"), which helps turbocharge the cooking. My oven can do 550°F just barely. More like 525°F at most. But the steel gets up to 580–590°F.  At the pizzeria with the WFO, obviously the cooking is turbocharged already and we're doing 650–675°F.

Mostly, though, I do it be visual cues. When the pizza "sets," and can be de-panned easily (edges pull away from sides of pan, cheese is browning nicely), I remove it onto the oven floor. Cook it there for about 45 seconds more… Until the bottom browns up more and is nice and crisp.
¡Hasta la pizza!