Author Topic: How to improve my pizza skills  (Read 1037 times)

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Offline Mr.pizza

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How to improve my pizza skills
« on: January 21, 2014, 02:30:27 PM »
Hello,

I've been making pizza's now for years but it's getting more serious since a couple of months. Next week my Bestron Pizza Oven dld9070 is coming so I'm really curious about it's results. Untill now i'm working with a conventional oven that can heat up 'till 250 degrees celsius in combination with a granite stone (garbage from a tile shop that I croped). Today I used flower typo 00 for the first time. It feels a lot beter in comparison to the common flower I used before. Please feel free to give any feedback on my baking process which I describe below.

For the dough I used:

735 gr 5 Stagioni typo 00
442 gr water
2,2 gr IDY
21 gr Salt
half tea spoon sugar

First I stirred the salt, IDY and sugar together with the tepid water and waited for about 5 minutes. Then I put the mix together with the flower in a big bowl and started mixing with my hands untill it became a nice smooth and equal texture. I let it rest for about 20 minutes. After that I started mixing for another 8 minutes by hands. Then I splited the dough in 4 equal balls and let it rest for about 1 hour covered with a towel (see picture below).

For the topping I used tomato sauce (with basil, salt, pepper, sugar and oregano), mozzarella, gran pardano and rasped mozzarella (dry).

I preheated my conventional oven (with the granite stone inside) one hour before baking the pizza. When reached the temperature, I switched on the grill element and inserted the pizza for about 4 minutes. You can see the result below.

Can I do any improvements for the dough ingedient amounts? I mentioned that the dough became a little bit dry on the outside after 1 hour fermentation (you can see this on the last picture).

Feel free to give your opinion or some piece of advice!   :)

Mr.Pizza  :pizza:



« Last Edit: January 21, 2014, 02:32:44 PM by Mr.pizza »


Offline Mr.pizza

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Re: How to improve my pizza skills
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2014, 02:14:24 PM »
Update:

Today I received my Bestron DLD9070 pizza oven and did a quick test (with the leftovers of last thursday that I saved in the freezer).

I'm still hopping for some feedback/ advice!  :chef: :pizza:


Offline misterschu

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Re: How to improve my pizza skills
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2014, 02:49:59 PM »
My first comment is that you do not allow your dough to rise for long enough. You go from raw material to baked pizza in under 2 hours. Pizza like bread benefits from allowing a rise period during which gluten and crumb structure form.  In a very emergency dough situation I have used less flour and 3x the amount of yeast, and it takes about 2 hours for the dough to double in size.

Covering your dough with plastic wrap or a moist towel should prevent it from drying out.

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: How to improve my pizza skills
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2014, 05:12:00 PM »
Straight 00 flour needs very high heat to brown properly.
Looks like your new oven runs hotter...you got better "oven spring" on second pie.
Convert your numbers to Fahrenheit and your formula to Baker's percentage and you will get more help from folks here.  ;)

Bob
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Offline Mr.pizza

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Re: How to improve my pizza skills
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2014, 05:29:11 PM »
Thanks misterschu and Chicago Bob for replying!

@misterschu:
So I need to take more time to rise my dough. How many hours will be enough for cold fermentation with my receipe? And for room temperature fermentation (68 Fahrenheit/ 20 celsius)? Next time I will cover my dough with a moist towel!

Should I make the dough balls before fermentation or after or in between?

@Chicago Bob, thanks for the advice. I will convert the numbers in my first post to Fahrenheit and Baker's percentage!

Edit:
Quote
I just see that I cant change my first post anymore. So here my converted numbers.

100% - 735 gr 5 Stagioni typo 00
60% - 442 gr water
0.3% - 2,2 gr IDY
2,9% - 21 gr Salt
0.3% - (2.5 gr) half tea spoon sugar

And the oven temperatures are:

 482 Fahrenheit/ 250 celsius for the conventional oven
 662 Fahrenheit/ 350 celsius for the Bestron pizza oven
« Last Edit: January 23, 2014, 05:42:23 PM by Mr.pizza »

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: How to improve my pizza skills
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2014, 05:47:27 PM »
Will the Bestron go higher Mr. pizza?

Bob
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline Mr.pizza

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Re: How to improve my pizza skills
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2014, 05:56:08 PM »
Hello Bob,

Unfortunately the Bestron won't go higher then  662 fahrenheit/ 350 celsius.

Although I read on the forum that it's possible to modify it. (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=17658.0)
Maybe I will do this in the future.  ;)

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: How to improve my pizza skills
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2014, 06:04:39 PM »
Hello Bob,

Unfortunately the Bestron won't go higher then  662 fahrenheit/ 350 celsius.

Although I read on the forum that it's possible to modify it. (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=17658.0)
Maybe I will do this in the future.  ;)
You may want to look into some "Neo/Ny" or "Nearlypolitan" recipes on the forum search feature. Those are recipes that often use a combination of flours that includes your 00 flour. Although your new oven is perfect for making some awesome NY pizzas, it won't even break a sweat.  ;)

Bob
"Care Free Highway...let me slip away on you"

Offline kdefay

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Re: How to improve my pizza skills
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2014, 10:41:53 PM »
I would recommend that after making the dough, ball it and do a cold ferment for 1-2 days before using.  I much prefer 2 days.  The gluten develops much better and the dough is more relaxed by the second day.   Take the dough out of the refrigerator approx.  2 hours before you plan to use it.  This is flexible because it really depends on your ambient temperature.  Where I am that varies widely over the course of the year, so it changes from 1 hour (during the hottest time of the year) to 4 hours at the moment.

I usually chill my water when I'm doing a 2-day cold ferment instead of using warm water.  For a 1-day cold ferment,  room temp water can work fine. 

It's generally not recommended to mix the salt and yeast directly together the way you described.  IDY does not need to be activated in warm water.  I like to dissolve the salt and sugar into my water and mix the yeast into my flour. 

I agree with Bob's comment about straight "00" flour and lack of browning at these temps.  Try blending a high-gluten bread flour or changing to bread flour completely.

Good luck !

Offline misterschu

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Re: How to improve my pizza skills
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2014, 10:13:16 AM »
Unfortunately, I haven't used IDY much recently, having switched to sourdough, and I don't keep a journal like many members here do so I can't offer too many specifics on rise times.  I would say that unlike kdefay I used to use a bulk rise followed by balled rise, rather than balling so soon after making the dough.


Offline kdefay

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Re: How to improve my pizza skills
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2014, 11:09:21 AM »
Unfortunately, I haven't used IDY much recently, having switched to sourdough, and I don't keep a journal like many members here do so I can't offer too many specifics on rise times.  I would say that unlike kdefay I used to use a bulk rise followed by balled rise, rather than balling so soon after making the dough.

Good results can come from following either workflow.  I follow the typical workflow for a NY dough.  I mix up the dough, let it rest for about 20 minutes, make my balls, and move to the refrigerator for a 2-day cold ferment.  I'm not trying to say that one way is better than another.  I think first big step to improving your pizzas is "time".  Slow down your workflow and give the dough time to develop.  Cold fermenting is more forgiving than long, slow room temperature rises.  That's why I do it that way.

IDY can give you great results, but you will need to make adjustments to your percents as you get closer to what it is that you are looking for.  Adjustments can be made to yeast % and water temperature to help control the dough development based upon the time frame that you want to be using it.

Offline Mr.pizza

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Re: How to improve my pizza skills
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2014, 11:29:56 AM »
Thanks for the advice guys!

I just made a new batch of dough. Used the same percents as I discribed above, but made some changes in my preparation.

  • I mixed the (cold) water with the salt and sugar and then stirred it together with the flower and yeast.
  • After kneading for 10 minutes, I let it rest for about 20 minutes in the fridge.
  • Then I kneaded it again for about 8 minutes and started balling (made 4 balls of approximately 300 gr).
  • I put each ball in a bowl that I lightly oiled with olive oil and covered it with a plactic wrap and put it in the fridge.

I will leave it in the fridge 'till sunday evening. So the dough will rise for at least 50 hours. I'll keep you posted about the results!

Offline kdefay

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Re: How to improve my pizza skills
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2014, 03:17:38 AM »
That's a good first step.  Looking forward to seeing the results.  Based upon factors like temperature in your refrigerator, the water temp that you used (which affects the temp of the dough), your yeast % may need to be adjusted to get the results you are looking for, but there's no way to know for sure until Sunday.

Good luck!

Offline Mr.pizza

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Re: How to improve my pizza skills
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2014, 02:49:23 PM »
Sorry for the late update guys. Anyway here are the next steps after the cold fermentation:

  • After 50 hours I took the dough out of the fridge and put it on a plate with soms flower and covered it with a plastic wrap and left it for 2 hours.
  • Then I started shaping my dough with some semonila under it and topped it with tomato sauce, mozerella, salami, olives and asparagus.
  • I pre-heated my Bestron about 40 minutes before use. When the pizza was ready to put inside I waited every time 'till the heating element turned on. And then put the pie inside for about 4 or 5 minutes.

Actually I was a bit disappointed about the results. The backside (the bottom) was a bit too crunchy and the crust wasn't that airy baked as you can see on the pictures. Maybe I should use more yeast or need a hotter oven? Looking forward to your reactions!

Offline misterschu

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Re: How to improve my pizza skills
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2014, 03:24:23 PM »
I definitely recommend modding at least the thermostat on your oven so that the heating elements do not turn off.

What's your technique for stretching the dough? IMO, the crumb structure of the cornice in the 4th picture looks better than your first two posts, you also have a couple big bubbles on the cornice indicating good fermentation.

Offline kdefay

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Re: How to improve my pizza skills
« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2014, 10:20:31 PM »
I agree with misterschu.  This is an improvement over what you had before.  You said you left the dough out for two hours.  What you are looking for is the dough coming to room temp and developing.  Two hours is kind of a baseline, but not a rule.  The amount of time to leave it out before baking really depends on what your ambient temp is and how fast the dough is developing.  At .3% yeast, you dough development is not going to be really fast.  You may need more time out to get the adequate development or you can increase your yeast % slightly to speed up that development.  I use a similar yeast % to you and like I said previously, the time I leave it out to rise changes over the course of the year from as little as one hour to as much as four hours. 

Oven temp looks like another problem.  That white crust and lack of oven spring makes me think that you just are not getting hot enough. 

Have you looked at this thread: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,17658.msg248452.html#msg248452

User MaximusTG is using a similar oven to you that he has modified.  Perhaps this can show you some of the challenges that you will be facing in getting really nice pizza from this type of oven.  It is possible, but will require a lot of patience and trial & error.


 

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