Author Topic: What is the better route funding wise?  (Read 2813 times)

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Offline gabaghool

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Re: What is the better route funding wise?
« Reply #25 on: June 01, 2014, 01:42:07 PM »
Wow.....what a heartbreaking story...

Unfortunately, an all too common occurance in this industry...............


Offline TXCraig1

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Re: What is the better route funding wise?
« Reply #26 on: June 01, 2014, 02:37:57 PM »
She never knew he signed that way and thought she was "fine" financially when he suddenly passed away.    She is anything but fine.

Not that it will make her feel any better, but it's the language in the contract above the signature that matters. The parties to a contract are identified in the contract. You can't "qualify" anything by tweaking your signature to somehow be a different person that the one that is party to the contract. Likewise, you should not be under the impression that you are somehow protecting yourself by those additions to your signature. If anything, you may be committing fraud by signing that way.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
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Offline gabaghool

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Re: What is the better route funding wise?
« Reply #27 on: June 02, 2014, 08:22:12 PM »
I soooooo agree with this.......

Offline jeffereynelson

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Re: What is the better route funding wise?
« Reply #28 on: June 02, 2014, 08:57:24 PM »
Not that it will make her feel any better, but it's the language in the contract above the signature that matters. The parties to a contract are identified in the contract. You can't "qualify" anything by tweaking your signature to somehow be a different person that the one that is party to the contract. Likewise, you should not be under the impression that you are somehow protecting yourself by those additions to your signature. If anything, you may be committing fraud by signing that way.

You mean you don't sign "craig, The CEO will pay if he feels like it" as opposed to just your name?

Online bigMoose

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Re: What is the better route funding wise?
« Reply #29 on: June 03, 2014, 06:38:39 PM »
Craig as you might guess I am very interested in this... need to get it straight myself.  So qualifying your signature means nothing, you say.

I have copies of the loan documents... I just scanned them again.  The first section that I thought was relevant was:

The note in question starts with:" For value received, the undersigned XYZ LLC an XYZ state limited liability company, having and address.... hereby promises to pay to the order of Bank Name..."
This to me makes it look like this note was taken out by the corporation (LLC).

"...the bank has agreed to make this loan as requested , provided that the Guarantors jointly and severally guarantee the payment of all indetedness to be evidenced by such loan..."
Now I thought this means that if you and I sign for a loan, and I disappear the bank can go after you for the full amount, not  just 50% .  Do you agree?

Then there was this:
"This guaranty shall be binding upon the guarantors and their respective executors, administrators, personal representatives, successors, heirs and assigns, and shall inure to the benefit of the bank and its successors and assigns."
I think this, if individually signed, means the executor/administrator must deal with the indebtedness.  This is making it sound like a personal endorsement. 

Finally on the signature line it say:

By: Joe Blow, an individual 
This seemed to nail the fact that the "corporate veil" did not apply" as it was signed individually.

Now I also have copies of a previous note from years past that was signed in a corporate manner.  The trouble is when I photographed the "fine print" in the court records, it is really small and I cannot see if the above two statements are in it... raats.

The signature line IS different and says:
By: Joe Blow, Managing Member XYZ LLC

Craig your comments and insight is welcome. I REALLY want to understand this issue with respect to ensuring that note paper is signed corporately and not individually.  I scanned the entire document and the only place I could find "individual" or "individually" in the devastating note was the signature line.



« Last Edit: June 03, 2014, 06:43:56 PM by bigMoose »

Online bigMoose

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Re: What is the better route funding wise?
« Reply #30 on: June 06, 2014, 10:10:39 PM »
Update:  Thanks to a couple of PM's from a knowledgeable board member here, it now is clear that I do not have all the relevant documents.  What I had was a subsequent loan guarantee that the bank required my friend and his wife to sign personally because of the change of risk of the loan and likely some other issues that I am not privy to.  What I do not have a copy of is the original promissory note or loan documents where the bank loaned his corporation the amount of  money.

It all clicked into proper perspective with this interchange and fully supported what Craig has stated previously.   Whether his 80+ish year age at the time was relevant to his cognitive ability or whether he was deliberately misstating things I will never know...  but at least now I know the bank was and is operating legally and not with malice.

It is great to learn these things before they could impact me. 

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: What is the better route funding wise?
« Reply #31 on: June 07, 2014, 02:00:08 AM »
It is great to learn these things before they could impact me.

Always remember, the time to talk to a lawyer is BEFORE you sign a contract.

"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, commercial yeast when we must, but always great pizza."
Craig's Neapolitan Garage


 

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