Author Topic: Tutorial Pizzaioli - Di Matteo  (Read 1999 times)

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Offline ebpizza

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Tutorial Pizzaioli - Di Matteo
« on: January 31, 2014, 10:47:14 PM »


Offline sub

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Re: Tutorial Pizzaioli - Di Matteo
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2014, 06:46:37 AM »
and all the others famous pizzaiolo








Offline Mangia Pizza

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Re: Tutorial Pizzaioli - Di Matteo
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2014, 08:44:43 AM »
Grazie Sub....
Paolo

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Tutorial Pizzaioli - Di Matteo
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2014, 02:54:56 PM »
Thank you both for posting these videos. They are mesmerizing for me. I love the fact that they all start with water and just add flour until it looks right to them. Salvo, Pepe, and Sorbillo all have a 63-65% hydration dough - Coccia has what looks to be 58-60. Coccia says one liter of water will make 11 balls of dough. I would expect the higher hydration versions to make a few less. I have never done it this way but I am going to try next time I make dough.

For years people hounded Marco to give up some secrets on the way Neapolitans make their dough. Almost all the information you will ever need is right here. I am not sure if these pizzaioli are telling you the whole story of their own dough, but I am sure it is very close.

John
« Last Edit: February 02, 2014, 02:58:36 PM by dellavecchia »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Tutorial Pizzaioli - Di Matteo
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2014, 06:11:05 PM »
I love the fact that they all start with water and just add flour until it looks right to them.
John,

Marco once chided me for suggesting to members that they weigh the flour and water. See Reply 288 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,576.msg17980.html#msg17980. But you are correct that Marco often spoke about measuring out a fixed amount of water and then adding just the right amount of flour to achieve the desired final condition of the dough.

Peter

Offline thezaman

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Re: Tutorial Pizzaioli - Di Matteo
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2014, 07:00:00 PM »
thanks for the videos. how do they slap the dough the way they do, it amazes me.

Offline sub

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Re: Tutorial Pizzaioli - Di Matteo
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2014, 04:19:49 AM »
John,

Marco once chided me for suggesting to members that they weigh the flour and water. See Reply 288 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,576.msg17980.html#msg17980. But you are correct that Marco often spoke about measuring out a fixed amount of water and then adding just the right amount of flour to achieve the desired final condition of the dough.

Peter


Ciro Salvo say the same, from old pizza.it threads:

Quote
MI FATE IMPAZZZZIRE LE SCIMMIE.....................
si infatti hai ragione,volevo già scriverlo,non avevo mai pesato la farina e mi convincesti tu a farlo,  credevo di usare 1700-1800g poi mi resi conto che ne usavo di meno e non ti nascondo che poco fa ho pensato che forse chi ha scritto il disciplinare ha fatto lo stesso errore...

Quote
bolle sulle palline

"far riassorbire ma non troppo" nel senso che non parto dalla prima sassata a far riassorbire e poi ogni volta così aspettando sempre qualche minuto tra un' immissione e un'altra facendo girare l'impastatrice una vita...però aspetto che riassorba, più che altro credo sia fondamentale la prima parte: quando s'impasta a mano si fa una prima "gettata" per dare una prima consistenza, durante questa fase d'impastamento la pasta si spezza in continuazione stringendo i pugni per cercare di legare il più possibile la farina all'acqua e se non sei allenato le avambraccia se ne vanno a fanc...con questo medoto s'impastano anche le frittelle (zeppoline di pasta cresciuta, non come quelle a forma di pallina che servono nei ristoranti gommose con la mollica stretta però, anche qui ci sarebbe da discutere una vita....) per fare un impasto molto, ma molto idratato, sempre a temperatura ambiente (senza farine forti) ricorrendo poi ai rigeneri, + o - come fa fermenti(il rapporto acqua farina è più o meno quello). mio padre lo faceva da quarant'anni questo sistema a mano, adesso è da poco che prematuramente e stato chiamato in un mondo migliore di questo(dato che siamo cristiani lo dobbiamo pensare), ma le frittelle erano tutte con alveoli pazzeschi...
ritornando al discorso impasto per pizza, dopo la prima parte di farina fatta impastare bene verso il resto in un paio d'immissioni per raggiungere il punto di pasta, aspettando ogni volta il riassorbimento senza esagerare però.
domenica per curiosità ho pesato acqua e farina, alla fine(dato che peso quando ho finito, la restante, per non farmi condizionare)
ho impastato 1540g di caputo gialla(w220-240) x litro con 45g di sale e 10 ore di lievitazione ad una temperatura ormai di 30°,con una puntata di qualche ora, per riallacciarmi anche ad un altro post letto. qui ci sarebbe ancora da dire sull'assorbimento, dato che parliamo di una farina medio-debole, ma a certi livelli d'idratazione con certi tipi di farina un pò di forza gliela devi dare ma senza cercare d'esagerare perchè alla fine non è chissà che forza in più ti ritrovi(nel caso sopra descritto). con questo ho commentato la tua analisi e aggiungo che quello a cui ti devi affidare, che ha il compito più difficile è la mano quando vai a fare le pizze e quel tipo di mano, questo lo posso dire perchè l'ho visto personalmente, non ce l'hanno tutti....quel tipo di pasta fa paura a molti pizzaioli perchè non si lavora di forza e schiaffi, anzi non la devi proprio lavorare.
ciao.

Offline dellavecchia

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Re: Tutorial Pizzaioli - Di Matteo
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2014, 06:33:53 AM »

John,

Marco once chided me for suggesting to members that they weigh the flour and water. See Reply 288 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,576.msg17980.html#msg17980. But you are correct that Marco often spoke about measuring out a fixed amount of water and then adding just the right amount of flour to achieve the desired final condition of the dough.

Peter

Peter - what also struck me is that you need to stop adding flour at a time that does not give you a visual cue as to what the final feel of the dough will be. The process of flour hydration over a rest period shows those cues - but by that time it is too far along to subtract/add flour.

John

Offline Jackitup

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Re: Tutorial Pizzaioli - Di Matteo
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2014, 07:31:20 AM »
LOVE videos like these. Amazing!!

jjon
Save A Cow, Eat A Vegan....Totally Organic And Hormone Free!!

Offline sub

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Re: Tutorial Pizzaioli - Di Matteo
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2014, 03:09:30 AM »
Two new videos





Offline mkevenson

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Re: Tutorial Pizzaioli - Di Matteo
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2014, 01:51:02 PM »
Thank you for those videos! Interesting that even tho I do not understand the language, it seems that the water is measured IE 1 litre, but the flour is added until there is the right consitancy. All the dough seems to be of a higher % of water, mid to high 60 % I would guess. This is the way I started, the mixing order not the hydration %, before coming here, now measuring by weight everything. Also interesting that many of the videos show the salt added to the water followed in  at least one case by the yeast, I had read and heard that salt diminishes the action of the yeast if mixed early in the process. Obviously that is open to a difference of opinion and technique.
All the pies made seem to be of the Margherita variety, I wonder IF the mixing technique would be the same if those pizzaiolo made different styles? Or why would they?
Thanks again for the videos, interesting thread!

Mark
« Last Edit: May 16, 2014, 02:00:10 PM by mkevenson »
"Gettin' better all the time" Beatles

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Tutorial Pizzaioli - Di Matteo
« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2014, 02:06:29 PM »
Mark,

You are correct that the starting point for making a Neapolitan style dough is the water, and then the flour. In fact, from a baker's percent standpoint, the Neapolitan method is to base all ingredients (other than the water) on the amount of water, not the amount of flour as is done in the U.S.

On the matter of the relationship of water, salt and yeast, see Marco's post at Reply 4 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=1085.msg9695#msg9695. The key is to let the salt take on some of the formula water, rather than from the fluids in the cells of the yeast, and than add (stir in) the yeast.

Peter

Offline mkevenson

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Re: Tutorial Pizzaioli - Di Matteo
« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2014, 03:26:30 PM »
Peter, thank you for that reference. I read it with much interest. In the last line, Marco says that he is short of time but will post a separate thread with regard to salt and gluten formation. I looked at his post list about the same time and did not find it. I guess he was busy. I really enjoy his posts and it is too bad that those new to the forum don't have his freshness of posts, of course we all can look at the archives.

Mark
"Gettin' better all the time" Beatles

Offline sub

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Re: Tutorial Pizzaioli - Di Matteo
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2014, 07:29:16 AM »
Thank you for those videos! Interesting that even tho I do not understand the language

You're welcome Mark

I just saw that you can watch some of them with english subtitles on ItaliaSquisita Eng Channel

Christ


 

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