Author Topic: key to soft pizza crust--soak in oil?  (Read 800 times)

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Offline canadave

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key to soft pizza crust--soak in oil?
« on: March 21, 2015, 11:19:56 AM »
I'm trying to get my gluten free pizza dough to be less dry, less like a cracker.  I like a soft, foldable crust.  I'm baking the pizza at 500 in a home oven on a pizza stone.  Here's my recipe and what I'm doing--it's working somewhat in terms of a foldable crust, but I feel like there's quite a bit of room for improvement:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=37047.msg370814#msg370814

Now, I read somewhere a blog post from someone who claims to have worked at a Papa John's, and she said one of the secrets to a light fluffy crust is to not include the oil in the initial mixing--instead, she says to mix the ingredients together, put the oil in a bowl, and then set the dough in the oil to rise.  That sounds crazy to me, but plausibly crazy :)  Has anyone heard of or tried this methodology?


Offline Jakew81

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Re: key to soft pizza crust--soak in oil?
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2015, 08:06:35 PM »
Peter told me large amounts of sugar and oil are what lead to the tender crust here  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=32972.msg332605#msg332605

5% sugar and 5% oil make a really soft foldable dough for me.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2015, 08:24:26 PM by Jakew81 »
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Offline mkevenson

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Re: key to soft pizza crust--soak in oil?
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2015, 01:07:27 PM »
canadave, if you can get the floor temp higher, your cooking time will be shorter and should result in a softer crust.  Will your home oven go to 550F? If so heat your stone for an hour and it will normally get a bit higher than 550F.
I have not heard of soaking the dough in oil before?

Mark
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Offline el supermacho

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Re: key to soft pizza crust--soak in oil?
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2015, 10:27:30 PM »
while talking to the owner of a local pizza restaurant, he told me to get a softer crust with a little more fluff to it, to replace my water with an equal amount of scalded milk. That wasn't specifically for gluten free as that trend had not come to be yet. But, it works... my pizzas that I have done that to have had a bit more fluff and flexibility, yet firm as any other crust.

Offline Aimless Ryan

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Re: key to soft pizza crust--soak in oil?
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2015, 07:18:39 PM »
Now, I read somewhere a blog post from someone who claims to have worked at a Papa John's, and she said one of the secrets to a light fluffy crust is...

Does this person claim that she learned this by working at Papa John's? Because that would be impossible, as Papa John's dough comes from a commissary. Which means you can't know anything about their dough just by having worked at Papa John's. Just like I don't know anything about Donatos dough just from having worked at Donatos, whose dough also comes from a commissary.
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Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: key to soft pizza crust--soak in oil?
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2015, 09:34:17 PM »
Adding liquid milk to the dough to replace all of the water or a portion of it will contribute some lactose to the dough formulation. Lactose (milk sugar) is not fermentable by bakers yeast but is does significantly improve the browning characteristics of the dough, hence since we typically bake to color, it will shorten the baking time all things being equal. There is a little interaction of the milk proteins and calcium content of the milk with the flour proteins (gluten) but the result is only a stronger, tougher dough.
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Offline pythonic

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Re: key to soft pizza crust--soak in oil?
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2015, 07:43:56 PM »
Does this person claim that she learned this by working at Papa John's? Because that would be impossible, as Papa John's dough comes from a commissary. Which means you can't know anything about their dough just by having worked at Papa John's. Just like I don't know anything about Donatos dough just from having worked at Donatos, whose dough also comes from a commissary.

I'm sure there have been instances where a papa johns store runs out of dough and had to make their own. 

Nate
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Offline David Esq.

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key to soft pizza crust--soak in oil?
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2015, 08:50:05 AM »
Probably as likely as a McDonald's store running out of fries and cutting their own potatoes. Less likely, actually.  Why would they have flour and yeast if they don't make the dough in house? And no doubt it would be a violation of the franchise agreement to create their own dough.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2015, 08:53:51 AM by David Esq. »

Offline pythonic

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Re: key to soft pizza crust--soak in oil?
« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2015, 10:11:21 AM »
Probably as likely as a McDonald's store running out of fries and cutting their own potatoes. Less likely, actually.  Why would they have flour and yeast if they don't make the dough in house? And no doubt it would be a violation of the franchise agreement to create their own dough.

I've heard of some pizza franchises running out to buy bread flour before.  It's not impossible.

Nate
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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: key to soft pizza crust--soak in oil?
« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2015, 10:40:15 AM »
I've heard of some pizza franchises running out to buy bread flour before.  It's not impossible.

Maybe not impossible, but it seems pretty unlikely. How would they mix it?
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Offline pythonic

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Re: key to soft pizza crust--soak in oil?
« Reply #10 on: June 09, 2015, 10:42:45 AM »
Maybe not impossible, but it seems pretty unlikely. How would they mix it?

Good point. Now that I think of it it was a place that makes their own dough that ran out of the flour they normally use and bought a substitute.
If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball.

Offline David Esq.

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Re: key to soft pizza crust--soak in oil?
« Reply #11 on: June 09, 2015, 10:47:53 AM »
Good point. Now that I think of it it was a place that makes their own dough that ran out of the flour they normally use and bought a substitute.
Lol.

They "could" mix it on the counter. You don't even need a bowl. But you'd still need to let it ferment, shape it, etc., and if you are a franchise owner who is making that sort of unauthorized mess because you were too incompetent to order enough pizza to run your shop, you're going to find yourself in a lot of trouble. After all, you are no doubt required to pay the piper for the dough you are supposed to use....making your own dough would be in violation of that obligation....

Offline pythonic

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Re: key to soft pizza crust--soak in oil?
« Reply #12 on: June 09, 2015, 10:55:52 AM »
Lol.

They "could" mix it on the counter. You don't even need a bowl. But you'd still need to let it ferment, shape it, etc., and if you are a franchise owner who is making that sort of unauthorized mess because you were too incompetent to order enough pizza to run your shop, you're going to find yourself in a lot of trouble. After all, you are no doubt required to pay the piper for the dough you are supposed to use....making your own dough would be in violation of that obligation....

Ya I know of a few Giordanos restaurants in Chicago that were making their own dough and got sued for it.
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: key to soft pizza crust--soak in oil?
« Reply #13 on: June 09, 2015, 11:49:55 AM »
In the U.S., Papa John's stores get their dough balls from one of about eleven commissaries scattered around the country, typically on a twice a week delivery schedule. Over time, I'm sure that the commissaries get to know how many dough balls to deliver to each store. Typically, a PJ dough ball is ready to use at around three days but it is not optimal at that point. Depending on the cooler equipment available at any given store and, more specifically, its cooling capacity and how often the cooler doors are opened and closed, a PJ dough ball can last up to about eight days. I read somewhere that if a cooler is not opened at all after dough balls are put into it, a PJ dough ball can last nine days. With such a wide window, a given PJ store can have a fairly large supply of dough balls in inventory to minimize the possibility of running out.

But, on occasion, PJ can run out of dough. But it is usually because of something like a fundraiser or where they offer specials on their pizzas at dirt bottom prices, like 23 cents or something like that. I suppose it is also possible that one PJ store will help another PJ store by sharing or lending some dough balls if such a capability exists, given that they are unlikely to be competing with each other. 

Peter