Author Topic: tossing a pie  (Read 1364 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline waltertore

  • Vendor
  • *
  • Posts: 1549
  • Location: granville ohio
    • The Smiling With Hope Bakery
Re: tossing a pie
« Reply #20 on: February 23, 2014, 10:01:23 AM »
PS:  I wonder where cold fermented dough fits in the definitive NY pie?  When I was kid dough was same day dough. I used same day dough up till finding this forum and love it.  Crazy once you start digging in deeper to the root-same day dough, wooden dough boxes, wooden work surfaces, in house or around the corner made mozz. cheese...... :)  Walter


Offline bigMoose

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 235
  • Location: OH
  • Kneading is Happiness!
Re: tossing a pie
« Reply #21 on: February 23, 2014, 02:36:02 PM »
To me it is so "neat" to be going back, full circle, to the things I saw my Italian Grandmother use and do!   Now all I have to do is set up for chickens in the back yard!  I am working on remembering what flour she used... she had some dish or kitchen towels that looked like the flour bag... wonder if I could find those today?  ...ah, neurons connected, Montana Sapphire Flour.

Offline waltertore

  • Vendor
  • *
  • Posts: 1549
  • Location: granville ohio
    • The Smiling With Hope Bakery
Re: tossing a pie
« Reply #22 on: February 23, 2014, 03:01:27 PM »
To me it is so "neat" to be going back, full circle, to the things I saw my Italian Grandmother use and do!   Now all I have to do is set up for chickens in the back yard!  I am working on remembering what flour she used... she had some dish or kitchen towels that looked like the flour bag... wonder if I could find those today?  ...ah, neurons connected, Montana Sapphire Flour.

That is cool bigMoose!  Currently we have a weekly contract with Bon Appetit to make plain and blueberry bagels.  They are served in the cafeterias at Denison University.  Part of Bon Appetits mantra is something like 40% of their products have to be made/grown/raised within 150 miles of each location.  We have been working with an Amish farmer who grows wheat.  It is all done with horses and stone ground on the premisie with his horses.  All organic too.  This is all neat stuff but the protien levels and size of the grain is not at all good for bagels.  It is way too corse.  I have experiment with blending flours and none of the Amish combos work worth a darn.  I had to go to mixing 60% of the Amish flour to 40% GM AT.  This makes a passable bagel.   I wonder what the milling process turned out 60 years ago in regard to protien and how fine did they make it?   Walter

scott123

  • Guest
Re: tossing a pie
« Reply #23 on: February 24, 2014, 03:17:55 AM »
Walter: Trust me, I'd be the last person to tell you what notes to play  ;D Different strokes for different folks.  I do think that your star is on the rise, though- both locally and nationally, and as you move further into the public eye, I think the opportunities to teach aspiring pizzeria owners will most likely increase, and, in those instances, I'm hoping that you show them both your way and the traditional method, which, as Dave mentioned, you might even be doing already- consciously or subconsciously.

Re; cold fermentation. I don't think I've struggled with anything more.  I really think there's something to be said for tradition, and when you open the door to one non traditional method, even a worthwhile one, there's always a risk that other non traditional methods (the less worthwhile ones) will creep their way in as well. But the science and flavor enhancing qualities of cold fermentation are so incredibly proven that I just can't not incorporate it into my process.

In all fairness, while same day ferments have historically been the norm (and are still the norm today), I'm fairly confident that, since NY style emerged post WWII, there have always been a few cold fermenters in the NY area, so there is an established history with this tradition. I am stretching my personal philosophy a bit, though, by overlooking the numbers vastly favoring same days, but I'm comfortable doing so because cold fermentation is such a clearly superior approach. Tradition is incredibly important, but not at the cost of flavor.

Offline bigMoose

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 235
  • Location: OH
  • Kneading is Happiness!
Re: tossing a pie
« Reply #24 on: February 24, 2014, 09:11:19 AM »
May I ask Walter and Scott a quick one?  What do you believe is the best "cold fermentation temperature?"  ... I think my home fridge is too cold at around 34 to 35 degrees F.

Offline waltertore

  • Vendor
  • *
  • Posts: 1549
  • Location: granville ohio
    • The Smiling With Hope Bakery
Re: tossing a pie
« Reply #25 on: February 24, 2014, 12:04:06 PM »
May I ask Walter and Scott a quick one?  What do you believe is the best "cold fermentation temperature?"  ... I think my home fridge is too cold at around 34 to 35 degrees F.

I am still learning on the cold ferment thing so my answer should not  be taken as gospel>  I started using it since joining thi forum but had been doing it with breads prior to here.  Our fridge that is pretty much dedicated to dough is a True commercial model.  It cycles.  When it hits like 38 it turns on down to about 33 and turns off.  I find this temp range to be great for our dough needs.  It is a puzzle though to get it all right- what is your dough temp when going in, how much yeast have you used, what is the fridge temp and is it opened/closed alot which will keep the temp high.   The board of health inspector tests the temp of the air in the fridge and the temp of the products as well.  I think 40 degrees is the warmest food can be.  Walter
« Last Edit: February 24, 2014, 02:35:52 PM by waltertore »

scott123

  • Guest
Re: tossing a pie
« Reply #26 on: February 24, 2014, 03:05:51 PM »
Dave, the thermostats in fridges, much like ovens, are constantly cycling the cooling on and off, typically resulting in a range of temps.  At least, that's how older fridges tend to work. I'm not sure if new technology has brought about more stable temps in fridges.

I bring this up because, while 34 and 35 are perfectly fine, it's pretty close to 32, and if your dough freezes, that would be very bad. As long as you're hitting a stable 34-35, and never dipping below that, then you're in good shape.

Offline bigMoose

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 235
  • Location: OH
  • Kneading is Happiness!
Re: tossing a pie
« Reply #27 on: February 24, 2014, 07:26:39 PM »
Thanks for that info gents, it helps.  The need to have the food in a commercial fridge never above 40 degrees likely means the walk in coolers are cycling in the 38 to 36 degree air temperature range as Scott said... so we should be good.  I adjusted the thermostat a year ago to remove the light freezing we were seeing in the back corners.


 

pizzapan