Author Topic: My Giordano's attempt  (Read 5147 times)

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Offline pythonic

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Re: My Giordano's attempt
« Reply #50 on: February 19, 2014, 08:55:59 PM »
I am making another stab at a Giordano's dough.  I used the Ceresota flour this time.  The ADY was prehydrated.  The water and vegetable oil were normal temperatures.  The vegetable oil was drizzled into flour in about a minute time-frame without the water.  The flat beater was used for the vegetable oil and flour mixing.  The dough was then mixed with the flat beater to get the water incorporated a little.  The dough hook was then used to mix the dough for four minutes.  The dough ball looks shabby now.  I will see what the dough ball looks like in 3 or 4 days, then decide if I want to use this dough on another attempt at a Giordano's pizza.

Norma

Norma,

Any reason you went with 49% hydration for this attempt?  The dough doesn't look wet at all so perhaps it will dry up nicely for you in the oven.  Try to make it 1/4 in thick and let's see if you are able to achieve layering.

Nate
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Offline norma427

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Re: My Giordano's attempt
« Reply #51 on: February 19, 2014, 10:09:59 PM »
Norma,

Any reason you went with 49% hydration for this attempt?  The dough doesn't look wet at all so perhaps it will dry up nicely for you in the oven.  Try to make it 1/4 in thick and let's see if you are able to achieve layering.

Nate

Nate,

There was no reason I went with 49% hydration except to see what kind of dough with a larger amount of water and oil would produce.  The dough was not wet at all, but then I did not let it rest and quickly mixed it.  I really don't know what the effective hydration would be with the amount of oil and water I used.  When trying to form the dough ball (into somewhat of a dough ball) I could feel the oil and guess if I would have let it sit out and messed with it a little more it might have formed a somewhat normal dough ball.  Do you think rolling the bottom crust out to ¼ inch will be thin enough?  If the dough ball does not roll out right I won't make the pizza.

Norma

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: My Giordano's attempt
« Reply #52 on: February 19, 2014, 10:24:00 PM »
Norma,

I thought that maybe you went with the 49% hydration so that, together with the 14% oil, which yielded an "effective" hydration of 64%, you would get increased extensibility and allow you to stretch the skin more easily and maybe even toss and spin it as was shown in some of the Giordano's videos. Hopefully your dough will behave well enough for you to see whether the higher hydration is a step in the right direction.

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: My Giordano's attempt
« Reply #53 on: February 19, 2014, 10:49:55 PM »
Norma,

I thought that maybe you went with the 49% hydration so that, together with the 14% oil, which yielded an "effective" hydration of 64%, you would get increased extensibility and allow you to stretch the skin more easily and maybe even toss and spin it as was shown in some of the Giordano's videos. Hopefully your dough will behave well enough for you to see whether the higher hydration is a step in the right direction.

Peter

Peter,

Thank you for telling me what the “effective” hydration was.  I also would like to see if I can get increased extensibility to stretch the skin more easily and see if they can be tossed like Giordano's does, but that was not the main reason I used a higher hydration.  My Ceresota flour is about 6 months old (has only been used to feed my Ishcia starter), and I don't know if it is needs more water because it is older and stored in my home where there is not much humidity this time of the year or not.  I seeing the same thing with my doughs at market that they don't feel hydrated as much as they should even when upping the hydration.  I upped the hydration this week for my regular boardwalk doughs and had to add more water.  Same thing with my Detroit style doughs.

Maybe I did not mix enough either for the Giordano's attempt.

Norma

Offline pythonic

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Re: My Giordano's attempt
« Reply #54 on: February 19, 2014, 10:55:22 PM »
Nate,

There was no reason I went with 49% hydration except to see what kind of dough with a larger amount of water and oil would produce.  The dough was not wet at all, but then I did not let it rest and quickly mixed it.  I really don't know what the effective hydration would be with the amount of oil and water I used.  When trying to form the dough ball (into somewhat of a dough ball) I could feel the oil and guess if I would have let it sit out and messed with it a little more it might have formed a somewhat normal dough ball.  Do you think rolling the bottom crust out to ¼ inch will be thin enough?  If the dough ball does not roll out right I won't make the pizza.

Norma


1/4 inch or a little less.  I'm really curious to see if anyone can produce the layering in my last pics with under 13% protein flour.  If they can that will surely throw another big wrinkle at what formulation Giordanos is using.  For my next pie I will attempt 45% hydration and 10% oil with a 13.5% flour blend.

Nate
« Last Edit: February 19, 2014, 10:58:31 PM by pythonic »
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Offline norma427

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Re: My Giordano's attempt
« Reply #55 on: February 19, 2014, 11:42:54 PM »

1/4 inch or a little less.  I'm really curious to see if anyone can produce the layering in my last pics with under 13% protein flour.  If they can that will surely throw another big wrinkle at what formulation Giordanos is using.  For my next pie I will attempt 45% hydration and 10% oil with a 13.5% flour blend.

Nate


Thanks Nate for telling me about the TF.  Thanks for also telling me what you will be attempting in your next Giordano's pie. 

If you read the second part of this article by Tom Lehmann (about fat in dough) I may have mixed my dough wrong.  http://www.pizzatoday.com/departments/in-the-kitchen/dough-doctor-tom-lehmann-calculates-party-sized-pizza/

Norma

Offline pythonic

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Re: My Giordano's attempt
« Reply #56 on: February 20, 2014, 11:12:11 AM »
Thanks Nate for telling me about the TF.  Thanks for also telling me what you will be attempting in your next Giordano's pie. 

If you read the second part of this article by Tom Lehmann (about fat in dough) I may have mixed my dough wrong.  http://www.pizzatoday.com/departments/in-the-kitchen/dough-doctor-tom-lehmann-calculates-party-sized-pizza/

Norma

Norma,

I have been mixing the dough the same as you and the results have been fine.  Just have to see what happens I guess.
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Offline norma427

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Re: My Giordano's attempt
« Reply #57 on: February 20, 2014, 03:10:11 PM »
Norma,

I have been mixing the dough the same as you and the results have been fine.  Just have to see what happens I guess.

Nate,

Thanks for telling me you have been mixing the dough the same as I did and it was fine.  ;) I will wait and see what happens.  This is what the dough looks like today. 

I wonder if I should use Crisco butter flavored stick I used before, or the Land O Lakes margarine I purchased today for the pan.

Norma

Offline PizzaGarage

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Re: My Giordano's attempt
« Reply #58 on: February 20, 2014, 03:50:28 PM »
I vote for Margarine because that what they said is used in the pan.

I have never mixed in oil fist so really interesting in seeing how this turns out.  It looks like it will be a pretty tender crust.


Offline pythonic

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Re: My Giordano's attempt
« Reply #59 on: February 20, 2014, 03:54:25 PM »
I vote for Margarine because that what they said is used in the pan.

I have never mixed in oil fist so really interesting in seeing how this turns out.  It looks like it will be a pretty tender crust.

I vote Margarine.
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Offline norma427

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Re: My Giordano's attempt
« Reply #60 on: February 20, 2014, 04:02:09 PM »
I vote for Margarine because that what they said is used in the pan.

I have never mixed in oil fist so really interesting in seeing how this turns out.  It looks like it will be a pretty tender crust.

I vote Margarine.


Thanks PizzaGarage and Nate for voting for the margarine.  I am not good at looking at Nutritional Facts and know which one would be the best to try. 

PizzaGarage,  Nate has been mixing his oil in first too. 

Norma

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Re: My Giordano's attempt
« Reply #61 on: February 22, 2014, 10:56:03 AM »
The attempted Giordano's dough ball doesn't look like it has fermented a lot until this morning.  For the amount of ADY used and the sugar amount does anyone think I should try this dough ball today, or do they think it will last until tomorrow?

Norma

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Re: My Giordano's attempt
« Reply #62 on: February 22, 2014, 11:13:33 AM »
Norma,

Nate or one of our other Chicago deep-dish/stuffed pizza experts might have a better feel for this than I, but since you are going to roll out the dough and force out all or most of the trapped gases anyway, another day of cold fermentation might not be the end of the world. At 3% sugar, I don't envision sugar depletion. Since you made the dough on 2/19, I assume that the total fermentation period would be 4 days if you add another day of cold fermentation. 3-4 days is what I read as being used by Giordano's. So, your results would be instructive, one way or the other.

Peter

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Re: My Giordano's attempt
« Reply #63 on: February 22, 2014, 11:58:10 AM »
Norma,

Nate or one of our other Chicago deep-dish/stuffed pizza experts might have a better feel for this than I, but since you are going to roll out the dough and force out all or most of the trapped gases anyway, another day of cold fermentation might not be the end of the world. At 3% sugar, I don't envision sugar depletion. Since you made the dough on 2/19, I assume that the total fermentation period would be 4 days if you add another day of cold fermentation. 3-4 days is what I read as being used by Giordano's. So, your results would be instructive, one way or the other.

Peter

Peter,

Yes, the dough would have 4 days of fermentation if it is used tomorrow.  Thanks for your thoughts!

Norma

Offline pythonic

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Re: My Giordano's attempt
« Reply #64 on: February 22, 2014, 02:09:25 PM »
Id give it a shot Norma.  G's dough doesn't look very fermented either.

Nate
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Offline norma427

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Re: My Giordano's attempt
« Reply #65 on: February 22, 2014, 03:31:02 PM »
Id give it a shot Norma.  G's dough doesn't look very fermented either.

Nate

Nate,

Thanks for telling me Giordano's dough does not look very fermented either.  Do you know how much sauce and cheese I would need to add for the 12” pan?

I will see how the dough behaves, or doesn't behave tomorrow.

Norma

Offline pythonic

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Re: My Giordano's attempt
« Reply #66 on: February 22, 2014, 08:56:17 PM »
Nate,

Thanks for telling me Giordano's dough does not look very fermented either.  Do you know how much sauce and cheese I would need to add for the 12” pan?

I will see how the dough behaves, or doesn't behave tomorrow.

Norma

Probably a pound of cheese.  For the sauce you only want it to be 1/4 inch thick on top.

Nate
If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball.


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Re: My Giordano's attempt
« Reply #67 on: February 22, 2014, 09:11:12 PM »
Probably a pound of cheese.  For the sauce you only want it to be 1/4 inch thick on top.

Nate

Thanks Nate!

Norma

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Re: My Giordano's attempt
« Reply #68 on: February 23, 2014, 01:20:00 PM »
This was my attempt today at a Giordano's pizza today.  I think I rolled a little too much for the bottom crust.  There was 1 lb. of LMPS mozzrella used for this pizza and spinach.

I think it can be seen that there were a few oil spots in the dough skin when it was rolled out some.

I seasoned the aluminum pan a little more this morning.  The stuffed crust pizza was baked at 465 degrees F for 35 minutes on the bottom rack on the stone.

At least in my opinion this crust and whole pizza tasted a lot better than the last one I made.

Norma

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Re: My Giordano's attempt
« Reply #69 on: February 23, 2014, 01:22:57 PM »
Norma

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Re: My Giordano's attempt
« Reply #70 on: February 23, 2014, 01:25:01 PM »
Norma

Offline PizzaGarage

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Re: My Giordano's attempt
« Reply #71 on: February 23, 2014, 03:25:43 PM »
How did you like the crust, was it buttery and tender?

The color looks great, did the margarine add any off or burnt flavor or was is more buttery?

Looks like a great pizza....

Offline norma427

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Re: My Giordano's attempt
« Reply #72 on: February 23, 2014, 05:13:07 PM »
How did you like the crust, was it buttery and tender?

The color looks great, did the margarine add any off or burnt flavor or was is more buttery?

Looks like a great pizza....

PizzaGarage,

I did like the crust.  It did not taste buttery to me though, but it was somewhat tender.  I would not say it was flaky though.  The margarine did not add any off taste or burnt flavor.  If I did not know better I could not have been able to tell there was the second crust above the cheese and spinach.  I added Red Cow Parmesan and good a Romano cheese on top of the sauce. 

This are two photos after the slices were cold.

Norma