Author Topic: The Fat Flake Pizza Dough  (Read 4386 times)

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Offline norma427

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Re: The Fat Flake Pizza Dough
« Reply #20 on: February 11, 2014, 10:42:07 PM »
Looks GREAT Norma. Almost has a ciabatta or thin focaccia like look to it. I would nail that in a second!!

jon

Thanks John!  I told Steve I wonder what would happen if I added the fat flakes to a Pizzarium dough.  I said I think I could get a much easier Pizzarium pie by using fat flakes.   >:D :-D

Norma
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Offline bigMoose

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Re: The Fat Flake Pizza Dough
« Reply #21 on: February 12, 2014, 10:53:52 AM »
Great work!!  As for where to go next, I would suggest two concentrations to "bracket" the success.  I think I would drop it to 1% of finished dough ball weight to see if a "trace amount" has a noticeable effect.  Then I would double it to 6% to see if the effect enhances or develops some undesirable characteristic at a higher loading level.

I think you found an effect that enhances a pizza needing reheating!

BTW was the screen needed to slow down the crust browning, or some other reason?

Offline Jackitup

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Re: The Fat Flake Pizza Dough
« Reply #22 on: February 12, 2014, 11:25:04 AM »
I'm thinking 3 cracker crust skins, layer of fat flakes beween each and rolll out........Hmmmmmmm......dock and bake!!

jon
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Offline norma427

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Re: The Fat Flake Pizza Dough
« Reply #23 on: February 12, 2014, 06:00:40 PM »
Great work!!  As for where to go next, I would suggest two concentrations to "bracket" the success.  I think I would drop it to 1% of finished dough ball weight to see if a "trace amount" has a noticeable effect.  Then I would double it to 6% to see if the effect enhances or develops some undesirable characteristic at a higher loading level.

I think you found an effect that enhances a pizza needing reheating!

BTW was the screen needed to slow down the crust browning, or some other reason?

Dave,

I don't think 1% of the finished dough ball weight would have much if any effect since I did not use the recommended 5% of fat flakes for the first attempt.  I am not sure if the fat flakes will enhance all pizzas that need reheating.  I guess more tests will tell.

The screen was needed because the edge of the bottom rim crust was getting baked too much.  The bottom edges were getting really dark in some places.  Maybe a different oven or different formulation would not give those results.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: The Fat Flake Pizza Dough
« Reply #24 on: February 12, 2014, 06:03:49 PM »
I'm thinking 3 cracker crust skins, layer of fat flakes beween each and rolll out........Hmmmmmmm......dock and bake!!

jon

Jon,

Do you think if the fat flakes were not mixed in with a cracker style dough it would give good results?  With fat flakes and using the Blitz method the dough needs to be rolled out and then folded over.  Then the dough can be balled.

Norma
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Offline Jackitup

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Re: The Fat Flake Pizza Dough
« Reply #25 on: February 12, 2014, 06:27:45 PM »
I think I'll try both ways. But I think the best would be to put between the layers
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Offline pythonic

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Re: The Fat Flake Pizza Dough
« Reply #26 on: February 12, 2014, 06:33:03 PM »
Norma,

Wow.  Tom Lehman recommended a percentage of 10-15% of fat flakes.  You gonna give it a whirl?

Nate
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Offline norma427

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Re: The Fat Flake Pizza Dough
« Reply #27 on: February 12, 2014, 06:39:58 PM »
I think I'll try both ways. But I think the best would be to put between the layers

Thanks for you thoughts of what ways to try Jon!

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: The Fat Flake Pizza Dough
« Reply #28 on: February 12, 2014, 06:46:50 PM »
Norma,

Wow.  Tom Lehman recommended a percentage of 10-15% of fat flakes.  You gonna give it a whirl?

Nate

Nate,

I sent Tom Lehmann an email and asked him what would be the best way to start with the fat flakes.  Tom said a good way to begin testing the fat flakes in pizza dough is use my basic dough formula and modify as follows:

Reduce added oil to not more than 1%.  Add fat flakes at a minimum of 5% of the total dough weight.  Tom said I could go as high as 15%.  Tom also said add the fat flakes during the last 4 to 5 minutes of the mixing.  Tom said after the dough has been mixed, roll the dough out to about 1 inch in thickness and then give it a 3-fold.  Then begin scaling it into the desired weight pieces.  From that point on handle as any other pizza dough.

Norma
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Offline pythonic

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Re: The Fat Flake Pizza Dough
« Reply #29 on: February 12, 2014, 07:29:19 PM »
Nate,

I sent Tom Lehmann an email and asked him what would be the best way to start with the fat flakes.  Tom said a good way to begin testing the fat flakes in pizza dough is use my basic dough formula and modify as follows:

Reduce added oil to not more than 1%.  Add fat flakes at a minimum of 5% of the total dough weight.  Tom said I could go as high as 15%.  Tom also said add the fat flakes during the last 4 to 5 minutes of the mixing.  Tom said after the dough has been mixed, roll the dough out to about 1 inch in thickness and then give it a 3-fold.  Then begin scaling it into the desired weight pieces.  From that point on handle as any other pizza dough.

Norma

Oh.  Didn't he say that they worked best at 10-15%?  Someone else said he said that but who knows.
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Offline norma427

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Re: The Fat Flake Pizza Dough
« Reply #30 on: February 12, 2014, 08:45:36 PM »
Oh.  Didn't he say that they worked best at 10-15%?  Someone else said he said that but who knows.

Nate,

No, Tom did not tell me the fat flakes work best at 10-15%.  I guess more tests on different doughs will have to be made.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: The Fat Flake Pizza Dough
« Reply #31 on: February 15, 2014, 01:48:48 PM »
For this experiment with the fat flakes I decided to use 6% for the fat flakes and delete any oil.  I used the Lehmann dough calculation tool for this formulation, but did not add the fat flakes in the calculation tool because the fat flakes are were added by the total weight of the dough ball.  This formulation was for a 14 pizza because my pizza stone is 16 and I did not want to mess up on loading the pizza on a stone in my home oven.  I have no idea how this pizza will turn out with the fat flakes, but my home oven only goes to a little over 500 degrees F.

I mixed the dough by adding the water first and mixed in the salt by stirring.  The the flour, sugar and IDY were added and the mixture was mixed for 3 minutes with the flat beater.  The dough was then rested for 5 minutes before the fat flakes were mixed in.  The mix time for when the fat flakes were added was 4 minutes with the spiral hook.  The dough felt drier than normal with a 63% hydration, but I guess that was from the addition of the fat flakes.  The dough was then rolled and folded over before it was balled and oiled. 

I am letting the dough ball room ferment until I think it might be ready to open.  The dough was balled at about 12:27 PM. 

The one photo of the fat flakes shows how large some of the fat flakes are.

Norma
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Online Pete-zza

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Re: The Fat Flake Pizza Dough
« Reply #32 on: February 15, 2014, 02:00:26 PM »
Norma,

I assume that you just added the fat flakes to the basic dough formulation and that doing so made the final dough ball larger. Is that correct, or did you trim the final dough down to the desired dough ball weight? Whatever you did, if the new dough formulation works out, there should be a way of using the dough calculating tools.

Peter

Offline dwighttsharpe

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Re: The Fat Flake Pizza Dough
« Reply #33 on: February 15, 2014, 02:02:20 PM »
Wonder how close one could get to simulating your fat flake dough by roughly cutting shortening into the flour?

I might try that once I get stocked back up on supplies. Might be a while though.

Although I do see some similarities to times I have used shortening in my bread dough and didn't soften the shortening sufficiently.

Maybe that's been mentioned already though.
Dwight

Offline norma427

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Re: The Fat Flake Pizza Dough
« Reply #34 on: February 15, 2014, 02:53:06 PM »
Norma,

I assume that you just added the fat flakes to the basic dough formulation and that doing so made the final dough ball larger. Is that correct, or did you trim the final dough down to the desired dough ball weight? Whatever you did, if the new dough formulation works out, there should be a way of using the dough calculating tools.

Peter

Peter,

Yes, I did just add the fat flakes to the basic dough formulation.  I did not trim at all.  I will just stretch the dough ball so it won't become as big as my pizza stone.

I wonder if the formulation I used works out how the calculating tools could handle adding the fat flakes since I added them to the basic dough formulation. 

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: The Fat Flake Pizza Dough
« Reply #35 on: February 15, 2014, 02:59:41 PM »
Wonder how close one could get to simulating your fat flake dough by roughly cutting shortening into the flour?

I might try that once I get stocked back up on supplies. Might be a while though.

Although I do see some similarities to times I have used shortening in my bread dough and didn't soften the shortening sufficiently.

Maybe that's been mentioned already though.


Dwight,

I really don't know how close one could get to simulating a flake flake dough by roughly cutting shortening into flour.  I have tried something like that with the HRI formulation but it did not work out well for me, or maybe I did not mix right.   

Tom Lehmann has some ideas of adding oil or fat in doughs at higher amounts at http://www.pizzatoday.com/departments/in-the-kitchen/dough-doctor-tom-lehmann-calculates-party-sized-pizza/ (second part) and how oil or shortening affects dough at http://www.pizzatoday.com/industry-news/oils-affect-dough/

Sometimes I get confused on what methods to use. 

Will be interested in your results if you decide to experiment with shortening and cutting it into the flour.  ;D

Norma
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Re: The Fat Flake Pizza Dough
« Reply #36 on: February 15, 2014, 05:46:13 PM »
I wonder if the formulation I used works out how the calculating tools could handle adding the fat flakes since I added them to the basic dough formulation. 
Norma,

Until you see how you like the results, I don't think I would worry about this matter quite yet but there are a few ways of coming up with the final dough formulation but you would want to use the expanded dough calculating tool to be able to use the shortening entry box to get the weight of the fat flakes to use.

One method would be to use the thickness factor approach as you used it and adjust the percent of shortening until it is 6% of the total dough weight. For your latest dough, that would come to 10.64% as measured as a percent of the formula flour. This scenario would look like this:

Flour (100%):
Water (63%):
IDY (0.75%):
Salt (2%):
Sugar (1%):
Fat Flakes (aka Shortening) (10.64%):
Total (177.39%):
187.28 g  |  6.61 oz | 0.41 lbs
117.99 g  |  4.16 oz | 0.26 lbs
1.4 g | 0.05 oz | 0 lbs | 0.47 tsp | 0.16 tbsp
3.75 g | 0.13 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.78 tsp | 0.26 tbsp
1.87 g | 0.07 oz | 0 lbs | 0.47 tsp | 0.16 tbsp
19.93 g | 0.7 oz
332.22 g | 11.72 oz | 0.73 lbs | TF = 0.076125
Note: The amount of dough is for a single 14" pizza; the nominal thickness factor = 0.075: the bowl residue compensation = 1.5%; the salt is Morton's Kosher salt

Another way would be to add the weight of the fat flakes you used to the total dough weight (332.32 grams) and use the new total dough weight (352.1532 grams) in the Dough Weight option of the expanded dough calculating tool, along with 10% as the amount of shortening. There would be no need to use the bowl residue compensation because the total dough weight is increased by adding the amount of shortening (19.9332 grams) to your original dough formulation. This is what this scenario would look like:

Flour (100%):
Water (63%):
IDY (0.75%):
Salt (2%):
Sugar (1%):
Fat Flakes (aka Shortening) (10%):
Total (176.75%):
199.24 g  |  7.03 oz | 0.44 lbs
125.52 g  |  4.43 oz | 0.28 lbs
1.49 g | 0.05 oz | 0 lbs | 0.5 tsp | 0.17 tbsp
3.98 g | 0.14 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.83 tsp | 0.28 tbsp
1.99 g | 0.07 oz | 0 lbs | 0.5 tsp | 0.17 tbsp
19.92 g | 0.7 oz
352.15 g | 12.42 oz | 0.78 lbs | TF = N/A
Note: The salt is Morton's Kosher salt; no bowl residue compensation

To get back to your original dough ball weight for the 14" pizza, you would scale back the dough ball weight to the original 332.22 grams. That way, all of the percents remain intact, and the dough ball weight is the right weight to make the 14" pizza..

Like Chicago Bob says: Easy peazzy.

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: The Fat Flake Pizza Dough
« Reply #37 on: February 15, 2014, 06:58:19 PM »
Norma,

Until you see how you like the results, I don't think I would worry about this matter quite yet but there are a few ways of coming up with the final dough formulation but you would want to use the expanded dough calculating tool to be able to use the shortening entry box to get the weight of the fat flakes to use.

One method would be to use the thickness factor approach as you used it and adjust the percent of shortening until it is 6% of the total dough weight. For your latest dough, that would come to 10.64% as measured as a percent of the formula flour. This scenario would look like this:

Flour (100%):
Water (63%):
IDY (0.75%):
Salt (2%):
Sugar (1%):
Fat Flakes (aka Shortening) (10.64%):
Total (177.39%):
187.28 g  |  6.61 oz | 0.41 lbs
117.99 g  |  4.16 oz | 0.26 lbs
1.4 g | 0.05 oz | 0 lbs | 0.47 tsp | 0.16 tbsp
3.75 g | 0.13 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.78 tsp | 0.26 tbsp
1.87 g | 0.07 oz | 0 lbs | 0.47 tsp | 0.16 tbsp
19.93 g | 0.7 oz
332.22 g | 11.72 oz | 0.73 lbs | TF = 0.076125
Note: The amount of dough is for a single 14" pizza; the nominal thickness factor = 0.075: the bowl residue compensation = 1.5%; the salt is Morton's Kosher salt

Another way would be to add the weight of the fat flakes you used to the total dough weight (332.32 grams) and use the new total dough weight (352.1532 grams) in the Dough Weight option of the expanded dough calculating tool, along with 10% as the amount of shortening. There would be no need to use the bowl residue compensation because the total dough weight is increased by adding the amount of shortening (19.9332 grams) to your original dough formulation. This is what this scenario would look like:

Flour (100%):
Water (63%):
IDY (0.75%):
Salt (2%):
Sugar (1%):
Fat Flakes (aka Shortening) (10%):
Total (176.75%):
199.24 g  |  7.03 oz | 0.44 lbs
125.52 g  |  4.43 oz | 0.28 lbs
1.49 g | 0.05 oz | 0 lbs | 0.5 tsp | 0.17 tbsp
3.98 g | 0.14 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.83 tsp | 0.28 tbsp
1.99 g | 0.07 oz | 0 lbs | 0.5 tsp | 0.17 tbsp
19.92 g | 0.7 oz
352.15 g | 12.42 oz | 0.78 lbs | TF = N/A
Note: The salt is Morton's Kosher salt; no bowl residue compensation

To get back to your original dough ball weight for the 14" pizza, you would scale back the dough ball weight to the original 332.22 grams. That way, all of the percents remain intact, and the dough ball weight is the right weight to make the 14" pizza..

Like Chicago Bob says: Easy peazzy.

Peter

Peter,

I have no idea of how I will like the results since the pizza will be made in my anemic home oven.  I would have liked to been able to try this fat flake dough ball at market, or in the BS, but at least we might know if fat flakes help a pizza that is baked in a home oven that does not at least go to 525 degrees F.

Thank you for figuring out ways to figure out how to use the fat flakes using the total weight option of the expanded dough calculating tool, or using the expanded dough calculating tool and using 10.64% for the fat flakes.  I am not sure I really understand either method but will study them more.

I got a little behind with other things to do when the dough ball looked ready to be opened.  The photos of the dough ball were taken a little after 3:30 PM.  The ambient temperature in my kitchen was 69 degrees F.  I think the dough ball did double by 3:30 PM.  The dough felt a lot softer than it had been when it was balled.  I then put the dough ball in the fridge.  I just turned on the oven to start to warm the pizza stone and the dough ball is sitting out now.

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: The Fat Flake Pizza Dough
« Reply #38 on: February 15, 2014, 08:53:31 PM »
Although this pizza made with the dough with the higher amount of fat flakes turned out pretty good, it was not as good as the fat flake pizza made at market.  I would tend to think the higher temperatures in the deck oven helped to make a better fat flake pizza.

A big bubble appeared on the fat flake dough ball while it was warming up.  The bubble was just pinched shut.  The fat flake dough ball opened well, but was not as easy to open as the fat flake dough ball at market.  With the higher hydration and more fat flakes I thought the dough ball might be easier to open, but that was not the case.

The pizza stone was 515 degrees F when the fat flake pizza was loaded.  It took 9 minutes for the fat flake pizza to bake.  The rim crust was not as airy as the fat flake pizza at market.  There was still some lamination going on in the crust where the sauce meets the crust.  The bottom crust browned well and evenly. 

The fat flake bottom crust was crispy, but I can figure out why this fat flake pizza had more chew to it.  It was not really chewy, but had more chew in the rim and bottom crust than the fat flake pizza at market. 

I would say all in all that the fat flake pizza was better than a regular pizza baked in my home oven. 

Norma
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Offline norma427

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Re: The Fat Flake Pizza Dough
« Reply #39 on: February 15, 2014, 08:56:02 PM »
Norma
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