Author Topic: KitchenAid 7 Quart Mixer  (Read 4587 times)

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Offline pbspelly

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Re: KitchenAid 7 Quart Mixer
« Reply #20 on: October 17, 2013, 11:31:51 AM »
I posted this on the Bosch thread, but it's also applicable here.

Using the stainless steel bowl with the hooks on the bottom makes a huge huge difference with the Bosch.  I bought a Bosch about six months ago and was quite unhappy with the way it performed with the center column bowl. So I bought a used ss bowl on eBay and am quite happy with the way it works now with the hooks on the bottom.  I had a KA before, and I still prefer the way it kneads, and it's certainly better for small batches. But I can now make six dough balls of 20 ounces apiece at one time in the Bosch, which I would never have been able to do in the KA.  It's also nice that the Bosch has suction cups on the bottom and doesn't walk all over the counter, like the KA does. So I can start it and go do other things. Most importantly, it's nice that I don't have to worry as much about burning out the engine or the worm gear, which is what happened with my KA after a few too many heavy doughs, and is what reportedly happens to almost every KA eventually if you make a lot of bread and pizza.

I read the Cooks Illustrated review and found it interesting but flawed.  It gave the Bosch a poor review, but, crucially, they didn't take into account that (1) the Bosch works much better with the stainless steel bowl, (2) it works better if you make big batches and there's really no reason not to, since you can always freeze the unusued portion, and (3) the Bosch probably won't burn out like the KAs will.  So while the KA might perform better for a brief product review test, it sucks to have to install a new worm gear, or even buy a new motor, every few years.


Offline Sartanely

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Re: KitchenAid 7 Quart Mixer
« Reply #21 on: October 18, 2013, 11:31:48 AM »
I never tried Bosch with stainless bowl but seeing some you tube videos it still does not look to me a professional dough mixer and I can not comment on longevity and durability of BUM as I only owned it for a few weeks but  I was not impressed with the results. The dough came out runny and still sticky after "kneeding" it for 15 or more minutes and it does not looked a dough ball at all. 7qt KA kneads the dough better but only does it on high steeds by kind of  slapping the dough on the  walls. But unfortunately KA is not strong enough and not designed to run on high speeds when kneading the dough that's why it cracked (pic below) after heavy use. I will get replacement from KA  as I sad earlier but still looking for not quite perfect but strong and small mixer  that is specially designs to kneed deferent types of dough like the commercial mixers do. I narrowed my search down to Hobart N50 and globe SP8. Unfortunately and surprisingly there are not  quite comprehensive  reviews and videos about these mixer showing and describing how they handle the doughs not in this site and in other places on the net. I would like to see other members with Hobart or globe to take their time and  comment on this thread to help us make right choice. Or   I think the only way is to try it and see and experiment but of coarse you have to pay price for it. 

Offline barryvabeach

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Re: KitchenAid 7 Quart Mixer
« Reply #22 on: October 18, 2013, 09:22:43 PM »
Sartanely, what types of dough are you trying to mix?  The Bosch Universal Plus can have issues with small amounts, or high hydration ( say 80% ) .  Another one to look into is the The Ankarsrum Original Mixer. aka the Assistent.  There are not a lot of reviews on it, but it got some pretty favorable reviews on Amazon as an industrial type machine - though it is designed for home use, it is pretty pricey.   

Offline Sartanely

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Re: KitchenAid 7 Quart Mixer
« Reply #23 on: October 19, 2013, 10:35:26 AM »
Is this the one you mentioned http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=blsIbsgGhSA. Do you think it is kneading the dough? I think it just mixes the flour with water. Kneading is deferent procces and from the clip it seams to me that it just spins the dough around rather than kneading it.
The highest amount I mix is 5lb flour. Mostly of the time it is 4lb. As I mentioned I have to knead 40-80% hydration doughs. I mean knead not just mix and spin around. Most likely I will go with used Hobart n50 because of my limited space in kitchen. But still would like to see other Hobart owners here to comment about n50's dough kneading abilities and durability. A video clip would be very helpful.
By the way my new KA is for sale on eBay is someone is interested
http://www.ebay.com/itm/181241926368?redirect=mobile

Offline barryvabeach

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Re: KitchenAid 7 Quart Mixer
« Reply #24 on: October 19, 2013, 03:18:14 PM »
It definitely kneads the dough, but in a rather different way.  It is easier to see in this clip, which uses the roller instead of the dough hook.
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mk41rQ-vuLE" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mk41rQ-vuLE</a>
   This is a much longer clip, but she explains it pretty well - it is kneaded as it is pushed against the side wall of the bowl by the roller. 
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMB4CVG5fLs" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMB4CVG5fLs</a>
    At 5 pounds, you are well within the capacity of this machine , though I don't know about the Hobart -  check what they say about halfway through this page http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/7661/kitchenaid-mixers-hobart-vs-quotthe-current-onesquot  and here as well  http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/11735/hobart-vs-electrolux-vs-bosch

Offline Zensojourner

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Re: KitchenAid 7 Quart Mixer
« Reply #25 on: November 30, 2013, 10:45:00 AM »
Not necessarily for pizza dough.   I have a Bosch Compact mixer that I use for my pizza dough and I'm very happy with it.  I got rid of my old Artisan Tilt-Head KA because the Bosch is better for pizza dough, and it didn't match my remodeled kitchen colors.  But with the holidays coming, I'm realizing I used it for a lot of other things and thinking of getting another KA.  Seems like the 7 quart Pro Line model has great reviews, and is better quality (metal gears, quieter, much more power).  Twice as much $, of course.  Anyone have one and love/hate it?  All feedback welcomed!

You don't need another mixer.  I have the Bosch Compact also and it does everything I've ever asked of it - pizza dough, chocolate chip cookies, cake batters, frosting, whipped cream, meringue - I even made gyro meat in it once (which was a pain and I'll never do it again, that's a task for the food processor).

What task is it that you think your compact can't handle?

Offline Zensojourner

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Re: KitchenAid 7 Quart Mixer
« Reply #26 on: November 30, 2013, 10:52:45 AM »
..... found a lot of positive comments about the Bosch Universal Plus.  That's what I ended up with.  I haven't used it yet.   I'm thinking of ordering the small bowl, since I normally do one or two pies worth for 12-14" pizzas.

Try it first - not everyone has a problem with small amounts of dough.  If its not working out for you, try the dough divider and the dough glide before you drop the extra $50 or $60 on that shredder bowl, plus any other attachments needed.  That's under $6 worth of parts, which may solve the problem - if you actually have a problem with the amount of dough you want to make.  Pleasant Hill Grain has the parts.

Offline Zensojourner

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Re: KitchenAid 7 Quart Mixer
« Reply #27 on: November 30, 2013, 11:01:55 AM »
I haven't figured out their hp rating system.  They clain 1 1/3 hp and yet state that it's a 500 watt motor.   Straight energy conversion is 750 watts = 1 hp.  ??? ???

You're right - even if there was 100% power conversion, a 500W motor would deliver 2/3rd HP.  Are you sure that's not a typo?  Or is the 500W supposed to be power delivered?

HP delivered will always be less, usually significantly less, than HP generated.  There is loss in the motor just due to voltage drop and the friction of operation, and there is considerable loss in the transmission in the case of the KA mixers - HP delivered for one commercial model was something like 1/10th of the rated power of the motor.  They aren't geared particularly well, and the motors are way cheaper than they used to be. 

Torque matters also, and KA mixers aren't very good at delivering torque.  Or at least not as good as they ought to be.  The Bosch UP does a better job of this because it uses a different style of transmission - belt driven instead of gear driven.  There are fewer places for energy to go off in directions orthogonal to where you want it.

Offline Zensojourner

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Re: KitchenAid 7 Quart Mixer
« Reply #28 on: November 30, 2013, 11:05:12 AM »
I have a model with a bowl lift, rather than a tilting head, and there's no way I'd trade it for a tilting-head model (even though I've had to get it refurbished because at least one of the gears stripped, which is a whole different topic). Stiff doughs can be the enemy of any mixer, but thanks to the bowl lift design, I've found a way to mix very stiff dough without worrying about killing the machine again. I'm not sure it's possible to make these stiff doughs with tilting-head mixers. Also, if I had a c-hook, as is standard with the tilting head mixers, it would drive me nuts. (I have a spiral hook.)

Stiff doughs put too much strain on that joint for the tilt heads - which is why the KA Classic reviewed by ATK/CI BROKE at the tilt hinge after a mere 10 batches of pizza dough.

And yet they rated it their #2 choice for a stand mixer.  I guess they figured that as long as you can stand there and hold the head down to keep the beaters from jumping out of the bowl, it must not REALLY be broken ...

They are insane ... that review was worthless.  As usual.

Offline Zensojourner

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Re: KitchenAid 7 Quart Mixer
« Reply #29 on: November 30, 2013, 11:09:10 AM »
I thought I had read something that stated the motor in the larger unit was a worm drive as compared to gear driven.  If that is the case then the worm drive IS definitely a much more dependable unit.  I'm still searching my files for the info I had seen so at the moment take it for what it's worth.
tom

"Worm drive" actually means worm gear.  The worm gear is the breakaway gear in most KA mixers (that still have one).  This is the infamous "plastic gear" that gets the blame for so many KA failures - when all it is doing is its job, eg breaking so the motor doesn't burn out when it's under strain.  It's a $2.50 part and easy to replace - but it isn't the cause of the KA problems, it's a symptom.

Anyway its still a gear driven transmission.


Offline Zensojourner

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Re: KitchenAid 7 Quart Mixer
« Reply #30 on: November 30, 2013, 11:15:03 AM »
I read the Cooks Illustrated review and found it interesting but flawed.  It gave the Bosch a poor review, but, crucially, they didn't take into account that (1) the Bosch works much better with the stainless steel bowl, (2) it works better if you make big batches and there's really no reason not to, since you can always freeze the unusued portion, and (3) the Bosch probably won't burn out like the KAs will.  So while the KA might perform better for a brief product review test, it sucks to have to install a new worm gear, or even buy a new motor, every few years.

Also Bosch makes two different mechanisms to handle the small-batch problem - the first is a $6 solution (the dough divider and dough glide combination mentioned earlier) and the other is to use the shredder bowl to reduce the size of the space you have to work in, which is a more expensive but viable solution.  CI/ATK didn't try either solution, even going in to it KNOWING that Bosch doesn't claim to handle small batches well and developed these solutions specifically to handle that problem.

And on top of it, to recommend as their #2 choice a unit that broke after a mere 10 batches of dough ... they've totally lost their tiny little minds!  LOL!

Offline Zensojourner

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Re: KitchenAid 7 Quart Mixer
« Reply #31 on: November 30, 2013, 11:24:21 AM »
Sartanely, what types of dough are you trying to mix?  The Bosch Universal Plus can have issues with small amounts, or high hydration ( say 80% ) .  Another one to look into is the The Ankarsrum Original Mixer. aka the Assistent.  There are not a lot of reviews on it, but it got some pretty favorable reviews on Amazon as an industrial type machine - though it is designed for home use, it is pretty pricey.   


Actually there are a TON of reviews on it - but due to the way Amazon organizes their products, they've been shifted offline under the former names such as Verona, Electrolux, Assistent, DLX, and I forget what else.

Here's one of them:  http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00006WNNH/?tag=pizzamaking-20

I couldn't find the rest, but they are there somewhere.  Over the years its had a lot of names - every time the importer changed, they changed the name of the mixer, but it's always been the same mixer.  So the reviews are scattered hither and yon all over the place.

Even at $700, if you make a lot of bread, its still worth it - that's still less than 2 KA Pros - and I know someone who just burned out #3.  She'd have been hundreds of dollars ahead to just buy an Ankarsrum or even a Bosch UP to start with, LOL!

Offline barryvabeach

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Re: KitchenAid 7 Quart Mixer ATC review
« Reply #32 on: November 30, 2013, 02:40:29 PM »
The ATC mixer test results are in this video 
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5mBOGte5Zo&amp;noredirect=1" target="_blank" class="aeva_link bbc_link new_win">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5mBOGte5Zo&amp;noredirect=1</a>

As mentioned, the winner was the Proline 7 quart KA, the second place was the tilt head KA, though they note that the tilt head mechanism broke and  knocked out of alignment after 10 pizza doughs and 6 bagel doughs.  They said they ran the batches in a row, but with cool down breaks between batches.  It only has a few seconds of clips on the BUP, and they said it had trouble with low hydration doughs, and that it would not whip 2 egg whites, which is surprising since the original Bosch would whip one egg white.

Offline Zensojourner

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Re: KitchenAid 7 Quart Mixer
« Reply #33 on: November 30, 2013, 04:08:59 PM »
The Bosch Universal Plus will STILL whip one egg white.  It's small amounts of dough it has trouble with.  For an undefined amount of "small" ... LOL!

Offline bbqchuck

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Re: KitchenAid 7 Quart Mixer
« Reply #34 on: December 03, 2013, 11:25:59 PM »
My wife has had a K5SS lift bowl mixer for maybe 20 years.  She never made pizza dough or bread doughs in it.  Just cookies and cakes.  No fondant.   

I have been using it to make small amounts of pizza dough for a few months.   So far no problems.   But I know it isn't a good idea to push it.   

I bought a Bosch Universal Plus and a bunch of attachments but didn't care for it.  I sold it this weekend.  My wife wanted a larger Kitchenaid stand mixer.  So, we bought a new 8 qt Commercial KA for our collective xmas gift.  So far my wife made one batch of chocolate chip cookies and I made 1 3/4 lb batch of mid hydration bread dough.  The thing I noted was the bowl support yoke seems to flex a bit more than I'm comfortable with. 

Regarding the cracked orbital housing shown earlier on the 7 qt mixer... the one on our 8 qt mixer is chromed or polished stainless steel.  I tried to see if it was magnetic.   It wasn't.  I think there's a good chance it's a die cast aluminum part that is chromed.

« Last Edit: December 03, 2013, 11:55:10 PM by bbqchuck »

Offline mrmagloo

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Re: KitchenAid 7 Quart Mixer
« Reply #35 on: March 01, 2014, 12:01:15 PM »
You're right - even if there was 100% power conversion, a 500W motor would deliver 2/3rd HP.  Are you sure that's not a typo?  Or is the 500W supposed to be power delivered?

HP delivered will always be less, usually significantly less, than HP generated.  There is loss in the motor just due to voltage drop and the friction of operation, and there is considerable loss in the transmission in the case of the KA mixers - HP delivered for one commercial model was something like 1/10th of the rated power of the motor.  They aren't geared particularly well, and the motors are way cheaper than they used to be. 

Torque matters also, and KA mixers aren't very good at delivering torque.  Or at least not as good as they ought to be.  The Bosch UP does a better job of this because it uses a different style of transmission - belt driven instead of gear driven.  There are fewer places for energy to go off in directions orthogonal to where you want it.

As I was doing my research prior to purchasing my 8qt KSM8990, I spoke with KA and the big difference most folks miss is the new 7/8qt models have DC motors which develop ultimate torque and power more efficiently, and is considerably stronger. I'm no engineer but compared to my old 5qt 475watt mixer, this 8qt is incredible. Extremely quiet and powerful, I have yet to notice any straining on anything I've used it for, and it's quite flexible in handling whipping to kneeding, and everything in between. And yes, the 7/8qt models have the same everything except the bowl. There is also a 5qt bowl that's available to fit too. My .02 fwiw.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2014, 12:02:59 PM by mrmagloo »


 

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