Author Topic: Stromboli.........Not too off topic  (Read 39461 times)

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Offline iceman06

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Re: Stromboli.........Not too off topic
« Reply #25 on: January 17, 2007, 07:18:34 PM »
Inspired by PizzaDan here was my first try at a stromboli. Man! It was soooo.... good! Thanks for the help guys.


Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: Stromboli.........Not too off topic
« Reply #26 on: February 13, 2007, 01:25:11 PM »
Lots of excess dough balls lately, so been making lots of stromboli with the leftover dough, sauce, cheese, etc. I like the picture below because it shows what I have been striving for. The dough is stretched very thin, but the oven spring inside creates the perfect texture for the whole thing. This is a Caputo 00 dough - 64% hydration, baked on a stone in the conventional oven at 400F. Camaldoli starter gives it a great flavor too!

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Offline Musky

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Re: Stromboli.........Not too off topic
« Reply #27 on: February 16, 2007, 10:05:27 PM »
Here's my first attempt.  Had to try it after seeing the great pictures in this thread.  They turned out okay.  I used cappicola, Genoa salami, prosciutto, fresh mozzarella, provolone, and hot gardeneria.  I drizzled with truffle oil and sprinkled lightly with basil and oregano.

To be honest, I way over did the strong flavors.  Needed to be simpler.  I also egg washed the bottom which was probably a mistake, as they stuck on the screen.  They also cracked open a bit and greased up my pizza stone through the screen.

The pictures didn't turn out that well either.

Kevin

Offline nepa-pizza-snob

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Re: Stromboli.........Not too off topic
« Reply #28 on: February 22, 2007, 10:37:32 PM »
I make a similar roll with fresh sauted spinach, roasted garlic, hot pepper, ricotta, and provolone  >:D It is sinfull!!!!!! :-D

Offline Bryan S

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Re: Stromboli.........Not too off topic
« Reply #29 on: April 06, 2007, 11:55:17 PM »
Well I sure like the looks of the stromboli you guys made and will have to try it soon. I am confused as all get out about the definitions. David says candyman is off base but doesn't say why? From what I have read it seems close to me. Can anyone help me out here? Regardless I'll be making some soon. You folks have a great new year. ;D
Pat
A Calzone is the shape of a half moon and does not contain red sauce. A stromboli is in the shape of a jelly roll, but you do not roll it up like a jelly roll (well at least not here in Central PA). Just fold the dough over and crimp on the outside like pizza Dan's pics, which look awsome.  :)
Here's a pic of a Calzone
« Last Edit: April 06, 2007, 11:57:11 PM by Bryan S »
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Offline beammeup

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Re: Stromboli.........Not too off topic
« Reply #30 on: November 13, 2007, 05:08:43 AM »
I have seen them at airports in Cincinnati and I think Houston. Very good a little heavy on the pepperoni though and the sauce was on the side. I have actually rerouted my flights so I could go through Cincinnati for a Stromboli. I have also sailed past the Island of Stromboli just north or Sicilly (I am a merchant seaman) thinking of stopping in to see if I could get one there. After seeing the pictures on this thread I will definitely try to make one on my next pizza night.

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Re: Stromboli.........Not too off topic
« Reply #31 on: January 01, 2008, 03:06:36 AM »
Dan, that's a great looking stombol. As for the calzone, it was invented in New Haven, Connecticut at a place called Tony and Lucille's. Another Wooster Street classic.

Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: Stromboli.........Not too off topic
« Reply #32 on: January 01, 2008, 08:08:57 AM »
As for the calzone, it was invented in New Haven, Connecticut at a place called Tony and Lucille's. Another Wooster Street classic.
Do you have any kind of documentation for this claim? According to P. S. Johns in Pizza Napoletano, the calzone (pizza ripiena) was sold as street food in Naples as far back as the eighteenth century.

Bill/SFNM


« Last Edit: January 01, 2008, 02:51:02 PM by Bill/SFNM »

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Re: Stromboli.........Not too off topic
« Reply #33 on: January 01, 2008, 09:23:20 AM »
Bill, I wouldn't doubt that fact from Pizza Napoletano. I believe that T&L's claim has to do with inventing (popularizing) the dish in the US. There is quite a bit of information about this out there, but it's just the same basic claim that I made, that comes directly from the restaurant itself.


Offline David

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Re: Stromboli.........Not too off topic
« Reply #34 on: January 01, 2008, 12:12:32 PM »
Inventing and  popularizing are very different and should be used carefully IMO.We don't need to confuse people any more than they already have are? ( as you observed regarding  New Haven / New York Pizza )
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Re: Stromboli.........Not too off topic
« Reply #35 on: January 01, 2008, 02:30:03 PM »
Well in New Haven the general population believes that T&L's invented the calzone. Perhaps that is the case, who's to say it's not, Pamela Johns? Maybe she needed some filler in her book to make it more complete, I don't know. Maybe the population of Naples is being romantic about their region making great claims about the calzone! I don't know! Who's to really say?

Offline November

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Re: Stromboli.........Not too off topic
« Reply #36 on: January 01, 2008, 05:30:57 PM »
Considering that there exist theories as to where Italians got the idea for calzones, and that the idea proceeding from any of those theories predates even the founding of the United States of America, I think it's pretty safe to assume the calzone was not invented in Connecticut.

http://www.foodtimeline.org/foodpies.html#portable
« Last Edit: January 01, 2008, 05:56:18 PM by November »

Offline sourdough girl

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Re: Stromboli.........Not too off topic
« Reply #37 on: January 01, 2008, 08:46:29 PM »
Thanks for the great link, red.november... it is a wealth of information... and even quotes Evelyn Slomon in the pizza chapter.

Since open-faced pies (aka tarts) are delicious and nutritious but messy to pack around, it was inevitable that they would be folded over for a less messy meal on the road or on the job for the working class.  Every culture has their derivation, hence the calzone and stromboli (and Cornish pastie... and pirogies... and...) all of which WA-A-AY predate New Haven.  Just because the population believes it, or a restaurant claims it, doesn't make it so.  Follow the link and you will learn LOTS... and not just about calzones!

~sd
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Jamie

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Re: Stromboli.........Not too off topic
« Reply #38 on: January 01, 2008, 09:13:19 PM »
Considering that there exist theories as to where Italians got the idea for calzones, and that the idea proceeding from any of those theories predates even the founding of the United States of America, I think it's pretty safe to assume the calzone was not invented in Connecticut.

http://www.foodtimeline.org/foodpies.html#portable
Great link November. Very informative. However that description of a calzone better describes a stromboli. Perhaps the name has been around longer then New Haven, but it's the NH style calzone (stuffed dough with ricotta) that we as Americans are familiar with. Even in Italy they argue about what a true calzone is:
http://tinyurl.com/39ab3p
I'll stick with New Haven.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2008, 09:16:01 PM by Jamie »

Offline sourdough girl

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Re: Stromboli.........Not too off topic
« Reply #39 on: January 01, 2008, 11:19:17 PM »
Jamie,
Just because they argue in Italy (and BTW, that link is such a rough translation, how can you tell what points they are really trying to make?) about what is IN a calzone doesn't prove your point about New Haven being the cradle of the calzone.  In Italy, they'll argue about just about anything... or rather, everything... because there are as many different calzone fillings are there are people making them!  Just as every recipe for minestrone, for instance, is different based on season, household and/or region of Italy, the same is true of other working class food.

In my go-to food reference "Food Lover's Companion" by Sharon Tyler Herbst,
she defines calzones:
"Originating in Naples, calzone is a half-moon shaped stuffed pizza.  It is usually made as an individual serving.  The fillings can be various meats, vegetables or cheese; mozzarella is the cheese used most frequently.  Calzones can be deep fried or brushed with olive oil and baked"
She defines stromboli:
"A specialty of Philadelphia, a stromboli is an enclosed calzonelike sandwich of cheese (usually mozzarella) and pepperoni (or other meat) wrapped in pizza dough."
Nota Bene: she said "a specialty of Philadelphia" not INVENTED in Philadelphia.  Also, the italic emphasis is mine, esp. "wrapped" meaning that it is NOT half moon shaped... it is wrapped, therefore more tubular.  I think you have your definitions confused.  You can call a dog "cat" if you like and all you want, but that doesn't make it a cat.

To be honest, I am not familiar with ricotta in a calzone until this thread, so, don't lump me in with the "we as Americans are familiar with" because I've never heard of it!  I have always heard that a calzone was filled with mozz or prov.  Yes, I live on the Left Coast, but I have spent many years on the East Coast, mostly in NE Pennsy and Virginia.  My time in CT was spent in Groton.  So, if you want to claim a RICOTTA filled calzone as the New Haven VERSION, more power to you... but the calzone itself is a child of Naples.  Even Lombardi's, the known birthplace of American Pizza doesn't have the effrontery to claim they invented it!

~sd

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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Stromboli.........Not too off topic
« Reply #40 on: January 02, 2008, 08:44:14 AM »
More than once I have read reviews of Al Forno in Providence, Rhode Island, best known for their grilled pizzas, that the owners, George Germon and Johanne Killeen (husband and wife) "invented" the grilled pizza. I am sure that they would be the first to say that they did not "invent" the grilled pizza. That is something that more likely happened shortly after someone discovered fire. There is little doubt that Germon/Killeen popularized the grilled pizza and, as such, deserve a lot of credit for making the grilled pizza a house specialty and putting Providence on the pizza map because of it.

Peter

Offline Lars

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Re: Stromboli.........Not too off topic
« Reply #41 on: March 06, 2008, 07:22:40 PM »
My Stromboli Page ;)

I made this for the first time last week.  I couldn't do it until I got a new oven, but now that I have one, I plan to do a lot more experimenting.


Offline candyman

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Re: Stromboli.........Not too off topic
« Reply #42 on: October 14, 2008, 10:20:37 PM »
Actually, growing up in an Italian family, i can tell you there is a big difference between Stromboli and Calzoni.  The biggest difference is that a Stromboli has red sauce (pizza sauce) and a Calzoni does not.  Calzoni has Ricotta cheese or feta cheese and generally Italian Sausage, onions, peppers, and sometimes ham (can put any typical pizza topping in it)... seldom does it have Mozzarella cheese.  Calzoni is rolled like a jelly roll.  Stromboli usually has mozzarella cheese, sicilian sauce, and about any pizza topping.  Stromboli are made just like a pizza with all the toppings on one half of the pie (heaped up) and then the empty side of the pizza is folded over the toppings forming a half pie (or half moon shape).  Then, usually with a fork or ravioli cutter the sides are sealed together.  That is the difference and both come from Sicily.

Also, wanted to let you all know that these stromboli's look delish.

~Candyman~

Looks like my pain killers for my back were hitting me hard the night I posted this... as some have stated, YEP, I have the two backwards!  My BAD!  Sorry if any confusion.  But, what goes in both is correct!  I have seen pizza joints not using Ricotta cheese in Calzoni - but that would probably be because they are cheap skates and not because it isn't suppose to be in it.  A calzoni in Italy and most other parts of the world have Ricotta cheese.  If it is a fried Calzone without Ricotta it would be called a Panzerotti.  Anyways, I just reread my earlier post and had to wonder if I was drinking or on pain meds that night... maybe both.  Glad to see some who jumped right on it though and corrected me so others wouldn't get confused.

Joe
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Offline NY pizzastriver

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Re: Stromboli.........Not too off topic
« Reply #43 on: July 25, 2009, 05:12:22 PM »
Ok since this thread died months back I thought it time to bring back boli's! Why, well because I have gotten into making them, and they are just too good, so you should make them too. That said I give you...

J's Mega Boli Post

Ah yes, the stromboli. Whether it was created by Romano's (and named after the Ingrid Bergman movie "Stromboli") as Romano's Italian restaurant in Essington PA in 1950 claims, or it truly came from Spokane Washington 4 years later as the NW says, either way it's a wonderful day when it's well made.

I was looking into this as a buddy of mines wife requested it, specifically using Glutenboy's 5-7 day dough.
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7761.0.html
Cool idea, I thought, so off I went to research. I found 2 methods of folding on youtube, one making a round shape and doing a big "D" shaped boli.


And one lady who used canned dough and what looks like hamburger meat, she made a big loaf shape.


Then I slapped myself asking "have you learned nothing from trying to find good cooking before, just go to the place where you know they know what the heck they are doing!" So here I came, to this thread, and learned the "jelly roll" method, adding olive oil on top as well. I made GB's dough and it, with my sauce, was simply the best boli ever made on the planet anywhere in the history of man. My friends agreed, and actually they said it first, but I had to concur. Amazing. I don't think pizza places use a 5 day low yeast dough, what a difference. It makes me want to go into business and make a Boli and pizza to blow the local small town mind, yet another dream that will never be, lol. Then yesterday I made a 1 day boli dough, and wanted a heavier dough ball than 230g GB, so I made the Lehmann thicker crust, but no oil.
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,2223.msg19563.html#msg19563

THIS is how I'm guessing pizza places make Boli, as in this faster style dough, much more familiar good pizza place flavor and texture. Still fantastic, but try a 5  day GB, you'll see! Here's the whole thing in a mega pictorial. I have not posted much lately so I'm making up for lost time via bandwidth.  :)

Hope you make one soon, and stay happy!
J.

p.s. Yes, that is a piece of ham that literally blew out the top!  :o
Baked at 450 on 1.5 hr preheated stone, about 20 mins.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2009, 05:34:37 PM by NY pizzastriver »
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Offline NY pizzastriver

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Re: Stromboli.........Not too off topic
« Reply #44 on: August 09, 2009, 02:21:32 PM »
Since my boli created such a stir you'll all be happy to know I won't make a boli on a pizza stone anymore, so  :P

Lol. But seriously, cheese literally carbonized. Looked like black Teflon, shiny and metallic. I had to put the stone in self clean cycle, man does that work! Every oil discoloration since day 1 gone! Like it was out of the box. That said I think boli's are best made on a pan... or something else anyway.

I hear some people "season" the stone? I tried a little garlic and oregano, had no affect at all.

"If God said you can come to heaven now, but you have to stop eating my pizza, you'd stay and finish instead, right?" - Essen1

Offline sourdough girl

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Re: Stromboli.........Not too off topic
« Reply #45 on: August 09, 2009, 06:43:29 PM »
Since my boli created such a stir you'll all be happy to know I won't make a boli on a pizza stone anymore, so  :P

Lol. But seriously, cheese literally carbonized. Looked like black Teflon, shiny and metallic. I had to put the stone in self clean cycle, man does that work! Every oil discoloration since day 1 gone! Like it was out of the box. That said I think boli's are best made on a pan... or something else anyway.

I hear some people "season" the stone? I tried a little garlic and oregano, had no affect at all.



Hey, Jim!
You are SUCH a kidder!  Thanks for that!
I've always cooked my Stromboli on a pan, I guess cause I always figured they're too thick for a stone and the bottoms would cook too fast and leave the tops underdone. 
The pics of your 'bolis are wonderful... and are making me hungry!  I actually have a recipe for Stromboli made with flour tortillas!  While not the norm, they certainly are quick and tasty!  But, I think I need to go get some dough started.....

~sd

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Offline Buffalo

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Re: Stromboli.........Not too off topic
« Reply #46 on: August 09, 2009, 06:55:44 PM »
SD
Will you share your "recipe" for bolis made with flour tortillas...Sounds like something I would really like to try.   Any pictures would also sure be appreciated.  ;D
Thanks
Buffalo

Offline sourdough girl

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Re: Stromboli.........Not too off topic
« Reply #47 on: August 09, 2009, 07:15:08 PM »
SD
Will you share your "recipe" for bolis made with flour tortillas...Sounds like something I would really like to try.   Any pictures would also sure be appreciated.  ;D
Thanks
Buffalo

Here ya go, Buffalo!
Hope I don't get flamed for posting something so "unauthentic" but they sure are a quick and easy meal alternative when you don't have time to make dough!  I got the recipe from the back of a bag of tortillas!

STROMBOLI WRAPS      

4 Burrito sized flour tortillas
1/3 c butter, softened and divided
6 T grated Parm, divided
4 oz provolone cheese, thinly sliced
4 oz salami, thinly sliced
4 oz capicola or ham, thinly sliced
½ c jarred roasted red bell peppers, rinsed and cut into strips
4 oz mozzarella, shredded
marinara sauce or pizza sauce, optional


Heat oven to 400 degrees.
Lightly spread one side of each tortilla with softened butter, sprinkle with 1 T parmesan cheese.  Arrange one fourth each of provolone, salami, capicola or ham and roasted peppers of center of tortillas, leaving border around edges.  Sprinkle with one fourth mozzeralla.  Fold up wrap fashion and place seam side down on baking sheet.  Brush with remaining butter and sprinkle with remaining parmesan
Bake 12 to 15 minutes or until golden brown.
Slice each stromboli on the diagonal.  Serve with marinara or pizza sauce for dipping.

~sd
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Offline Buffalo

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Re: Stromboli.........Not too off topic
« Reply #48 on: August 10, 2009, 08:45:19 AM »
SD
This sounds 1) QUICK   2)EASY   3)DELICIOUS.. ;D ;D
Thanks a million....
Buffalo

Offline NY pizzastriver

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Re: Stromboli.........Not too off topic
« Reply #49 on: November 07, 2009, 10:36:16 AM »
Since my boli created such a stir you'll all be happy to know I won't make a boli on a pizza stone anymore, so  :P

Lol. But seriously, cheese literally carbonized. Looked like black Teflon, shiny and metallic. I had to put the stone in self clean cycle...

Well, if only I had heeded my own words. But it was not the blackness of carbonizing cheese, not at all. No my friends, this was not the trouble. It was me watching for bursting cheese through the oven door, and being about 2 seconds too late! As I opened the door, the cold air drawing in, the cheese erupted simultaneously. Perhaps too many temperature extremes, perhaps the old boy just had enough and could take no more...

It was a good stone. We learned so much together, so many trials and tribulations thrust upon us during our creative efforts and education. Ah the joys, the tears, I'll always remember my first stone dearly. R.I.P.  :'(

Also I noticed right away it was a freakishly close outline of the San Andreas fault, image below, hope this isn't some bad prophecy...written in stone.  :o
(start heading east Mike)

It will make a great top stone anyway, as I am now going to the Fibrament 15.5 x 15.5 x 3/4. So bigger better things ahead! We always have to see the positive in times of mourning.

 p.s. The boli rocked!
« Last Edit: November 07, 2009, 10:39:22 AM by NY pizzastriver »
"If God said you can come to heaven now, but you have to stop eating my pizza, you'd stay and finish instead, right?" - Essen1