Author Topic: Semolina + AP Flour = HG Flour?  (Read 623 times)

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Offline Neapolitan

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Semolina + AP Flour = HG Flour?
« on: February 25, 2014, 05:25:01 AM »
I am sorry if the title gives you are an inappropriate question vibe in relation to the subject.
In here we don't have all the brands or variety available to us. People hardly know what high gluten flour is. So I was thinking weather it is okay to mix the semolina and flour during the kneeing process to get that HG Flour consistency while making a pizza dough?


Online Pete-zza

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Re: Semolina + AP Flour = HG Flour?
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2014, 01:56:57 PM »
Neapolitan,

Since most semolina flours have a protein content in the range of about 12-12.9%, and since basic all-purpose flours have a protein icontent in the range of about 8-12%, any blend of the two flours will not have a protein content that approaches the protein content of high gluten flour. However, adding semolina flour to all-purpose flour, or to bread flour, will make for a somewhat stiffer dough, in part due to the fact that semolina flour can absorb more water than other flours. The usual recommendation is to use semolina flour at around 15-25% of the total blend, although I have seen use of semolina of up to 50%. However, at that level, a finished crust can take on the feel of shoe leather after cooling.

If you can find the protein content of the flours available to you in India, you might be able to use the Mixed Mass Percentage Calculator at http://foodsim.unclesalmon.com/ to test different blends.

As for some examples of how semolina flour can be used as a blend to make pizza, you might go to the thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8167.msg70317#msg70317 and type the word "semolina" (without the quotes) in the search box at the top of the page to the right (below the PizzaMaking.com name).

Peter

Offline Neapolitan

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Re: Semolina + AP Flour = HG Flour?
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2014, 06:11:44 AM »
Thank you so much Pete. I tried the recipe with 10% Semolina, 25% Whole Wheat Flour and 65% AP Flour. On our prior discussed recipe of Canadave. Since I didn't have a good idea of measurement of sugar and I may have added a bit more IDY, so by second day, the dough in the container was all bubbly and over fermented like the one you have shown your pics. All the semolina made it's outer texture look like a raw chicken breast with skin. I didn't have Pizza Peel so by the time I put my perfectly hand stretched pizza on the hot stone, it got all messed up. Took it 5 mins to cook and 5 more mins for me to ruin it by burning the bottom and making it hard rather than crispy and upper texture got some serious caramelization aswell because I placed the stone next to the top broiler for the last 3 mins. But the inner bread texture and the flavor was beautiful with lots of air holes and had a nice flavor. The puffiness of the crust was just like the pizzaria style. I would like to thank you for encouraging me to get started and at least bringing me on correct track.

I think 2 or 3 more go will give me a better idea. I made two more doughs, one last night and one today but this time I measure it perfectly, only problem is that I think the yeast's died which is weird because I open the seal 3 days ago and the dough worked just fine but yesterday the dough I made had hardly any rise and does not have the strong yeasty smell but rather mild smell. I can see that it has formed small holes at the bottom of it's plastic container but no changes in it's shape and no noticeable rise. So I increased the amount to a Tbsp of yeast and a Tbsp of sugar on today's dough, to see what happens. Earlier I tried to see if my IDY forms froth on a luke warm water with a Tsp of sugar. It only gave me that bready and yeasty smell but no froth, idk if IDY works like ADY during the testing. Do you know any method to test IDY? The chances should be unlikely for the yeast to die so soon. I bought the yeast last month, opened the seal like 3 days ago. Manufacturing date shows Jan 2014, haven't let any moisture get to the rest the yeast and I been keeping in a relatively cold and dry temperature. If the efficiency is over within the 24hrs everytime after I open a seal, it will be a hell of a lot costlier than I've imagined.?
« Last Edit: February 28, 2014, 06:16:11 AM by Neapolitan »

Offline c0mpl3x

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Re: Semolina + AP Flour = HG Flour?
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2014, 07:34:04 AM »
i would do 5% semolina, 10% WWF, and 85% ap/bread/hg flour

also, keep opened yeast frozen. i do that and its 'use within 3 months' lifespan lasts a year or more. as long as you keep nutrients and moisture out of the yeast, you'll be fine keeping it frozen.
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Offline Neapolitan

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Re: Semolina + AP Flour = HG Flour?
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2014, 10:21:06 AM »
Hi complex,
Thank you for the reply. Complex, when you suggest to keep the yeast frozen, I don't understand how will I be able to stop it from coming into contact with moisture then? Anything I place in the freezer has wetness once it gets back to it's normal temp.

Update on the 24hr dough. It has started to form bubbles on the upper surface, although this looks a lot tighter than the last dough, but maybe that's because it's a bit harder because I added a pinch of flour more so that that dough doesn't stick to my hand after the kneading was done. And today's dough was was placed after 3 hrs inside the freezer, so it too had a noticeable rise. I think a Tbsp of IDY for a Cup of flour is still too much though, judging by the first dough, i would expect it to rise fast so within 24, I am hoping to see some results other wise something has gone wrong with yeast seal.

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Semolina + AP Flour = HG Flour?
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2014, 11:31:19 AM »
I made two more doughs, one last night and one today but this time I measure it perfectly, only problem is that I think the yeast's died which is weird because I open the seal 3 days ago and the dough worked just fine but yesterday the dough I made had hardly any rise and does not have the strong yeasty smell but rather mild smell. I can see that it has formed small holes at the bottom of it's plastic container but no changes in it's shape and no noticeable rise. So I increased the amount to a Tbsp of yeast and a Tbsp of sugar on today's dough, to see what happens. Earlier I tried to see if my IDY forms froth on a luke warm water with a Tsp of sugar. It only gave me that bready and yeasty smell but no froth, idk if IDY works like ADY during the testing. Do you know any method to test IDY? The chances should be unlikely for the yeast to die so soon. I bought the yeast last month, opened the seal like 3 days ago. Manufacturing date shows Jan 2014, haven't let any moisture get to the rest the yeast and I been keeping in a relatively cold and dry temperature. If the efficiency is over within the 24hrs everytime after I open a seal, it will be a hell of a lot costlier than I've imagined.?

Neapolitan

I can't speak to the quality of dry yeast products used in India, but in the U/S. it is rare for yeast to go bad if it has been properly used and stored after opening the package or bottle. There are ways of testing the freshness of dry yeast, such as described, for example, at http://www.redstaryeast.com/lessons-yeast-baking/yeast-shelf-life-storage/yeast-freshness-test, but that method makes sense mostly if you plan to use a packet of yeast to make the dough. Also, if you use a small amount of yeast, which is very common for a dough that is to be cold fermented for a reasonably long time, the method described at the above link will not result in much foaming activity, if at all, although sometimes you can get noticeable foaming--but still just barely--if you add a bit of sugar to the yeast and water mixture.

Seeing the kinds of problems you have been experiencing, I'd like to suggest that you read the thread starting at Reply 8 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=2223.msg19563;topicseen#msg19563, and including the post on oven techniques at Reply 45 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=2223.msg20965#msg20965. Since your ingredients and equipment and oven may be different than what we have available in the U.S., not all of what is discussed in the above thread and posts will apply in your case. So what you want to pay attention to is technique and the technical principles involved and to try to adapt those to your particular situation. If you are making the dough by hand, you might find the methods described in the abovementioned thread at Reply 65 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=2223.msg63786#msg63786 to be useful.

Peter

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Re: Semolina + AP Flour = HG Flour?
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2014, 11:11:20 PM »
I am sorry if the title gives you are an inappropriate question vibe in relation to the subject.
In here we don't have all the brands or variety available to us. People hardly know what high gluten flour is. So I was thinking weather it is okay to mix the semolina and flour during the kneeing process to get that HG Flour consistency while making a pizza dough?
Can you get Vital Wheat Gluten over there Neo?

Bob
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Offline dmckean44

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Re: Semolina + AP Flour = HG Flour?
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2014, 11:33:39 PM »
I am sorry if the title gives you are an inappropriate question vibe in relation to the subject.
In here we don't have all the brands or variety available to us. People hardly know what high gluten flour is. So I was thinking weather it is okay to mix the semolina and flour during the kneeing process to get that HG Flour consistency while making a pizza dough?

What style pizza are you aiming to make? AP flour woorks for a surprising amount of doughs.

Offline Neapolitan

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Re: Semolina + AP Flour = HG Flour?
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2014, 02:03:18 AM »
Thanks Pete, I'll check the links and give it a thorough read.

Bob I am not sure if we have Wheat Gluten here, I'm going to have to check. Most people in mall here don't know what is kept where and it is impossible for me to find a particular thing out of 1000 things if there is no assistance from mall workers to guide me in the bakery section even if it is there. It took me 3 trips to the mall to find me IDY, and I found it by luck, atleast now I know where to look for next time I will go.

What style pizza are you aiming to make? AP flour woorks for a surprising amount of doughs.

I am try to make a homemade pizza which has pizzaria style of texture, kind of like papa johns clone, crispy texture on the crust's with micro blisters and puffy on the inside and I am not a thin crust fan to I like it a bit puffy not not too bready. Kind of like CPK


 

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