Author Topic: Ed Tries to Make Chicago Thin Crust at Home  (Read 1471 times)

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Offline vcb

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Ed Tries to Make Chicago Thin Crust at Home
« on: February 26, 2014, 07:44:01 PM »
I'm happy with my deep dish recipe, so now I'm working on Chicago thin crust.

I've been reading the Generic Chicago Thin Crust thread http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6368.0
and the Vito & Nick's threads, so I think I have an idea where I'm going to make adjustments,
but I thought I'd start a thread to work on troubleshooting my dough formula and other sauce and sausage variables.

My latest attempt had a 2 hour rise, then an overnight chill in the fridge, and then about 5 hours on the counter-top, 
which I think may have been too long.

Here's my working dough recipe and some photos of my last attempt.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2014, 07:47:53 PM by vcb »
-- Ed Heller -aka- VCBurger -- Real Deep Dish - Deep Dish 101
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Offline vcb

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Re: Ed Tries to Make Chicago Thin Crust at Home
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2014, 07:45:12 PM »
photos continued...

-- Ed Heller -aka- VCBurger -- Real Deep Dish - Deep Dish 101
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Offline CDNpielover

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Re: Ed Tries to Make Chicago Thin Crust at Home
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2014, 08:35:56 PM »
needs more cheese and thinner crust!   >:D :chef:

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Ed Tries to Make Chicago Thin Crust at Home
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2014, 08:44:26 PM »
I do about 4oz or so less dough than yours....same day.
What type/brand of cheese you working with Ed?

Bob
« Last Edit: February 26, 2014, 08:56:53 PM by Pete-zza »
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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Ed Tries to Make Chicago Thin Crust at Home
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2014, 08:48:34 PM »

Sauce amount looks real good; maybe a lil too thin product....is that thinned puree?

Bob
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Offline pythonic

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Re: Ed Tries to Make Chicago Thin Crust at Home
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2014, 08:50:59 PM »
Ed,

So what did you think of this thin crust creation?  Lots of milk I see.  Does V&N bake in pans?  I will definitely be following your progress on these as I also have really started to explore Chicago thin formulations.

Nate
If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball.

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Ed Tries to Make Chicago Thin Crust at Home
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2014, 09:02:27 PM »
Ed,

So what did you think of this thin crust creation?  Lots of milk I see.  Does V&N bake in pans?  I will definitely be following your progress on these as I also have really started to explore Chicago thin formulations.

Nate
Now you're causing me to take a closer look.....60% hydration is around  10 too much....the milk is not necessary,especially at the oil % you have ....yeast amount is inline for a same day though......

V&N is baked on the deck

Bob
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Offline PizzaGarage

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Re: Ed Tries to Make Chicago Thin Crust at Home
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2014, 09:20:42 PM »
Yeah, curious on the milk too.  At 41% what did it do? How was the flavor?

Nice looking pizza...

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Ed Tries to Make Chicago Thin Crust at Home
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2014, 09:32:52 PM »
Milk is water and fat and basically just ups your oil % minisculey ....but in a way that seems more silky, smoother tenderness than if you simply added more oil if that makes any sense. It won't make your dough taste like milk.

Myself, I like these pizzas a bit lower on the oil...thus bit more dry "bite".

Bob
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Offline pythonic

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Re: Ed Tries to Make Chicago Thin Crust at Home
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2014, 10:28:39 PM »
Now you're causing me to take a closer look.....60% hydration is around  10 too much....the milk is not necessary,especially at the oil % you have ....yeast amount is inline for a same day though......

V&N is baked on the deck

Bob


Bob,

V & N actually uses a very wet dough than the norm.  I think 60% hydration is about right per the V&N clone thread.

Nate
If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball.


Offline pythonic

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Re: Ed Tries to Make Chicago Thin Crust at Home
« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2014, 10:30:40 PM »
Milk is water and fat and basically just ups your oil % minisculey ....but in a way that seems more silky, smoother tenderness than if you simply added more oil if that makes any sense. It won't make your dough taste like milk.

Myself, I like these pizzas a bit lower on the oil...thus bit more dry "bite".

Bob

Bob,

Give 40% water and 9% oil a shot.  Was very nice.

Nate
If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball.

Offline Garvey

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Re: Ed Tries to Make Chicago Thin Crust at Home
« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2014, 11:25:54 PM »
I'd drop the dough weight to the 300-330g range.  The pictures look amazing.  As Nate asked, how was it???

Offline vcb

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Re: Ed Tries to Make Chicago Thin Crust at Home
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2014, 02:06:05 AM »
Whoah! Comment-a-palooza! Let me see if I can answer the questions:

It tasted great.
I'm still working on the sauce (which this time around was paste and water plus spices - I may go back to puree).
I made bulk sausage at home with 95% lean ground pork - I'm still tweaking that too - needed more fennel and less salt.

As I said earlier, I thought I left the dough out on the counter too long, which added the bubbles you see in the first pic, which gave me a thin crust, but with a somewhat puffy outer edge. I'm probably going to skip the overnight proof and stick with the same day 2 hour rise.
I may go with a thinner thickness factor and dial back the hydration a little (water or milk).

There was plenty of cheese. I used 8oz of Roundy's whole milk mozzarella.
I put down half of the cheese as a base, then laid down the sausage, then blanketed the rest over the sausage to keep them in place.

I'm not trying to reproduce the V&N pizza exactly, but it is a big influence in what I'm aiming for.
V & N bakes right on the deck.
I'm using a perforated cutter pan because I want to make a recipe that people will be able to make at home with or without a stone.
I'm definitely using the milk because of V&N, but I'm not exactly sure how much is too much. I think they use about half a gallon of milk for every 37.5 lbs of Ceresota flour, plus yeast, salt, and an unknown quantity of water. If you've seen that DDD video, you know they weren't very precise. Did anyone figure out what that milk percentage comes out to? (or do I have to fiddle with a dough calculator?)

Milk is not just water and fat. There's also protein and sugar. That milk sugar can fuel the yeast, so I'm thinking maybe I used too much milk or gave the yeast too much time making bubbles. It also helps the crust to brown.

I'm going to read more about this when I wake up to read this Tom Lehmann article: http://www.pmq.com/April-2013/Adding-Milk-to-Pizza-Dough/ and then make appropriate adjustments.
 :chef:

-- Ed Heller -aka- VCBurger -- Real Deep Dish - Deep Dish 101
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Ed Tries to Make Chicago Thin Crust at Home
« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2014, 06:39:39 AM »
Ed,

You might check out Replies 119 and 120 starting at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6368.msg117149.html#msg117149 .

Peter


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Ed Tries to Make Chicago Thin Crust at Home
« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2014, 06:42:19 AM »
Ed,

There is a also a list of Chicago thin formulations that CDNPielover started and that I periodically add to, at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=16422.msg160335#msg160335

Peter

Offline CDNpielover

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Re: Ed Tries to Make Chicago Thin Crust at Home
« Reply #15 on: February 27, 2014, 10:11:27 AM »
Ed, nice to read about your work here. I'd just like to add that I've used Peter's V&N formula that he linked above, and it worked great for me but then again I've never had a real V&N pizza. The great thing about Peter's formula is that it was based on the DDD video of their dough making process in V&N kitchen.  Cheers!  :chef:

Offline vcb

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Re: Ed Tries to Make Chicago Thin Crust at Home
« Reply #16 on: February 27, 2014, 11:23:29 AM »
Thanks for the links, Peter! That's just what I was looking for!

So yeast doesn't like lactose?
I forgot to mention that I used 2% Lactose Free milk ,
which is actually regular milk that has been treated with lactase
to break the lactose down into glucose and galactose, which yeast will use.
That extra available sugar must be making the yeast over-react.
I should probably cut the granulated sugar to compensate when I use LF Milk.

I grew up in the burbs, so the only time I ever went to the south side was the rare occasion when we'd go to White Sox games,
so I never had the opportunity to try Vito & Nick's until my adult years when a co-worker brought some in for an office party.
Great stuff. Lots of similarity to the pizzas of my youth.
I love how they intentionally run the cheese and sauce to the edge to get that crispy burnt cheese that we all love.
"They burn!" she exclaimed proudly.
Also, Italian beef with giardiniera on a pizza is one of the best things on this planet.

If I had to pick my biggest Chicago thin crust influences, it would be Rosati's, Barnaby's, and Jake's Pizza - a lesser known local joint.

The Northbrook location of Barnaby's has the best crust - they crimp the outside by hand.
I grew up with the Schaumburg Barnaby's with the wood bench booths and the big window where you could watch them make pizzas.
There were giant trays of dough, dough sheeters and giant benches of semolina (we thought it was cornmeal, but now we know better).
I seem to remember them doing the initial stretch by hand in the bench of semolina and then running it through the sheeter.
I could be remembering it wrong. for sure there was a great crispy semolina dotted bottom crust on this pizza.
I've been trying to reproduce it by putting a small mound of semolina under my ball of dough while I roll it out. I'm still working on the procedure.

-- Ed Heller -aka- VCBurger -- Real Deep Dish - Deep Dish 101
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Offline pythonic

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Re: Ed Tries to Make Chicago Thin Crust at Home
« Reply #17 on: February 28, 2014, 07:50:38 AM »
Ed,

Did this pizza come out chewy at all?  My last attempt at a V&N clone without the oil made it somewhat chewy which I didn't like.  I see you have decided to add oil to yours.  What was the crumb like?

Nate
If you can dodge a wrench you can dodge a ball.

Offline vcb

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Re: Ed Tries to Make Chicago Thin Crust at Home
« Reply #18 on: February 28, 2014, 12:16:42 PM »
Ed,

Did this pizza come out chewy at all?  My last attempt at a V&N clone without the oil made it somewhat chewy which I didn't like.  I see you have decided to add oil to yours.  What was the crumb like?

Nate

It wasn't chewy, pretty easy to bite through. Not much crumb to speak of. The bottom was perfectly crispy, but there was a bit of puffy/gummy above the crispy, mostly on the outer edges.
I'm going to try cutting back on the dough sugar and see if I get a better result next time.

Here's some more pics featuring the crust:
« Last Edit: February 28, 2014, 12:19:26 PM by vcb »
-- Ed Heller -aka- VCBurger -- Real Deep Dish - Deep Dish 101
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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Ed Tries to Make Chicago Thin Crust at Home
« Reply #19 on: February 28, 2014, 12:25:33 PM »
Those are good clear pics Ed....I like that dough.

Bob
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