Author Topic: jerry mac first NY attempt  (Read 499 times)

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Online thezaman

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jerry mac first NY attempt
« on: February 27, 2014, 05:46:33 PM »
  taking a trip to see walter  and wanted to try a NY style so i had a little understanding of the dough. i used jerry mac's recipe for a  quick 5 hour dough. i used the inside of a steam jacketed kettle to get a quick first rise . i also had a poolish in house so that saved time. my flour was harvest king and i used 12 ounces to make a 12 inch pie. after 1 hour the dough was balled and i cooked at 9 pm. i used my san marzano tomato sauce and added a nice sprinkle if oregano and parmigiana cheese. this is what i saw done at pizza town jersey, during a pizza crawl with a few pm.com members a couple of years ago.topped it with grande 50/50 and some of my house made from curd mozzarella and a squirt of evoo. i baked it in a little sodir oven that hits 675 degrees. the bake times were 4 min 45 second to 5 minutes. the little oven has a upper heating element that sits pretty close to the pie.i think it melts the cheese a little to fast. i also had a hard time getting a even stretch. the dough was pretty soft and i struggled  getting the edges even. it ended up looking like a neapolitan stretch. the pizza tasted very good much different than what i normally make and realy enjoyed the texture of the dough the oily cheese and the oregano laced sauce. i want feed back on what i need to do to improve the pizza. i know a longer fermentation will help. this dough had a lot of flavor for such a rushed bake. the malt added a nice flavor as did the poolish. jerry mac 's dough was very enjoyable. enclosed are a few pics
 


Offline jsaras

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Re: jerry mac first NY attempt
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2014, 05:54:35 PM »
The bottom of the pie looks lovely.  I like brushing the rim with a bit of olive oil after the bake, but I'm weird that way.
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Offline scott123

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Re: jerry mac first NY attempt
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2014, 06:24:25 PM »
NY style without bromate? What are you doing to me, Larry?  :-D

Seriously, though, for your first NY bake, that's pretty amazing, although, considering your vast history in in the business, I'm not surprised how quickly you're picking this up.

Long cold fermentation develops a bit of a malty flavor in the dough, so it makes sense that malt supplementation would, to an extent, counteract some of the flavor deprivation of a same day dough.  If you can, though, try to move away from emergency doughs into overnight or 2 days.  There's no substitute for time.

For that bake time, homemade fior di latte isn't going to work.  Not only will the pockets of fior di latte curdle in that heat, the watery whey will produce a chain reaction and curdle the rest of the cheese as well, as you're seeing.  Stick to grande (or, preferably, Saputo).

Coal places mess around with olive oil, but, for the NY style you're doing, olive oil is a departure- they don't use it in the dough or as a topping.  Soybean oil is what goes into the dough- far more neutral tasting.  The cheese should be oily- especially so with pepperoni, but should still be a bit oily with plain.  To achieve this without olive oil, you want a quality whole milk mozzarella.

Did you edge stretch?  ;D It's going to take you some time to unlearn your NP stretching technique.  10 more pies and you should be good to go. As you get more comfortable stretching, drop the doughball weight to 9 oz. for a 12 inch. pie.  That will be much more in line with a Pizzatown thickness.


Overall, though, I think you should be pleased. That undercrust is beautiful. You better be careful- at this rate, you might fall head over heels in love with NY style and forget about NP completely  ;D
« Last Edit: February 27, 2014, 06:26:01 PM by scott123 »

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: jerry mac first NY attempt
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2014, 06:54:06 PM »
 ^^^
Nothing much more to add there...Scott covered all the bases.

What malt did you use and how much to your 12oz of dough. I agree, Jerry Mac's dough is very enjoyable.  :chef:

Bob
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Online thezaman

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Re: jerry mac first NY attempt
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2014, 06:59:03 PM »
 thanks scott, the stretch is going to take a lot of practice. does the dough have to be perfectly round to get a good crust? i am visiting walter and hope he can give me some help on stretching. i am also going to nyc in two weeks i will work a night at nicoletta's just stretching the dough and making pies.

 as you know i loved pizza town so 9 ounces for a 12 inch would be closer to there crust? how is a 4 .5 minute bake at 675 degrees for this style of pie? their cheese was hand sliced into one inch shavings. how thick should it be? this is a close up of my cheese melt

Offline Chaze215

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Re: jerry mac first NY attempt
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2014, 06:59:34 PM »
Just out of curiosity, why can't one use the Neapolitan slap for NY style dough? Is the dough itself? The TF of the final product?
Chaz

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Re: jerry mac first NY attempt
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2014, 07:00:58 PM »
bob i made enough dough for 4 -12 inch pies . i will look up the measurement tonight.

Offline norma427

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Re: jerry mac first NY attempt
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2014, 07:10:09 PM »
Larry,

Nice pie on your first NY style!

Norma
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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: jerry mac first NY attempt
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2014, 07:15:19 PM »
Just out of curiosity, why can't one use the Neapolitan slap for NY style dough? Is the dough itself? The TF of the final product?
The shear size of the NY'er...would probably be very difficult to get an even skin. Not to mention the extra elasticity a Ny has....good for knuckle opening those big boy 20inchers you see.

Bob
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Offline Chaze215

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Re: jerry mac first NY attempt
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2014, 07:17:29 PM »
I was thinking more of a 12-14 incher.
Chaz


Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: jerry mac first NY attempt
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2014, 07:24:36 PM »
I was thinking more of a 12-14 incher.
I thought you said NY style Chaz?  ;D

Bob
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Offline Chaze215

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Re: jerry mac first NY attempt
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2014, 07:27:22 PM »
I thought you said NY style Chaz?  ;D

Bob

I did :-)  I do more of a NY style in my wfo and can't fit a 20 incher through the door...lol  For private events, I usually do 14".
Chaz

Offline scott123

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Re: jerry mac first NY attempt
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2014, 07:34:20 PM »
thanks scott, the stretch is going to take a lot of practice. does the dough have to be perfectly round to get a good crust? i am visiting walter and hope he can give me some help on stretching. i am also going to nyc in two weeks i will work a night at nicoletta's just stretching the dough and making pies.

 as you know i loved pizza town so 9 ounces for a 12 inch would be closer to there crust? how is a 4 .5 minute bake at 675 degrees for this style of pie? their cheese was hand sliced into one inch shavings. how thick should it be? this is a close up of my cheese melt

Larry, round is less of a goal and more of a byproduct.  If you do all the stretching correctly, you end up with a round pizza.  It doesn't have to be perfectly round, but there is a certain symmetry to a properly stretch skin. Your pies are already looking pretty round, as you press out a smaller rim, work with less dough and edge stretch a bit more conscientiously, you'll be fine.

Yes, 9 oz. for a 12 inch crust will give you something more pizza town-ish (and be more authentic overall).

Nicoletta is Wiscopolitan, right?  I don't think that's going to help you- unless you specifically take their dough and do a NY stretch on it.

Your bake time is right on the money. The color you're getting, top and bottom, is gorgeous.  I would like to see you get a few microblisters on the undercrust (speaking of pizzatown).  That's another advantage to long cold fermentation.

Pizza town's cheese is like potato chips.  I know, for a fact, that it's done with a machine- which machine, I don't know, and whether or not the manufacturer slices it for them or they slice it themselves, again, I don't know.  I wouldn't spend a lot of time trying to recreate it- if you fail and the slices end up too thick, it won't melt right at all. If you're doing this at home, use a box grater. If commercially, a pelican head attachment for the Hobart or an equivalent.

Offline scott123

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Re: jerry mac first NY attempt
« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2014, 07:51:09 PM »
Just out of curiosity, why can't one use the Neapolitan slap for NY style dough? Is the dough itself? The TF of the final product?

Well, as Bob pointed out, it would be very difficult to NP slap a large NY style pizza. As far as smaller pizzas go...  I've never tried it, but my gut feeling is that it would be counterproductive.

First off, an NP slap doesn't go as thin as a knuckle stretch.  The knuckle stretch is a final stretch, while the NP slap is only partial, with the pizza topped and then 'tugged.'  Because of the roundness of NY style pies, I don't think the tug would work- and I also don't think the slap would work without the tug (please, no comments from the peanut gallery  ;D ). The slap is, as far as I can tell, designed only to take the skin so far.

Another factor to consider is puff on the point.  Neapolitan pizza typically has a point with a fairly dense, wet, almost noodle-y crumb. The compression of the slap technique contributes towards this. With a NY stretch, there is still some gas in the center of the skin when you knuckle stretch, and the knuckle stretch, to an extent, preserves this. Instead of going from a point that's dense and wet to the rim adjacent area that's puffier (but not as puffy as the rim), on NY, all non rim area should have a similar crumb. When you bite into the point, it's natural that it's going to be a bit juicier, but it shouldn't be as juicy as you find in NP.

You could certainly try it, but I think it would change the nature/NPify the center of the pie.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2014, 08:04:26 PM by scott123 »

Offline scott123

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Re: jerry mac first NY attempt
« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2014, 08:04:41 PM »
Larry, re; cheese chips. I was thinking back to a video that tyler florence did on John's:

http://www.foodnetwork.com/videos/ultimate-new-york-pizza-78216.html

Check out the 2:20 mark. Look familiar? I don't think it's a coincidence that John's of bleeker and pizza town have very similar looking cheese, and also have the cheese made specifically for them (their own private label brand) by the manufacturer.  At least, I'm pretty sure John's is made for them.  I know Pizza town is.  As you get into these old school places, they all have their own cheese and flour.

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: jerry mac first NY attempt
« Reply #15 on: February 27, 2014, 08:29:31 PM »
I don't think the tug would work- and I also don't think the slap would work without the tug (please, no comments from the peanut gallery  ;D ). The slap is, as far as I can tell, designed only to take the skin so far.

Another factor to consider is puff on the point.  Neapolitan pizza typically has a point with a fairly dense, wet, almost noodle-y crumb.
Ok.....couldn't resist Scotty!   :P
Sorry man. ;D

Bob
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