Author Topic: Heikjo's first attempt at NY style Lehmann (12" on stone)  (Read 1403 times)

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Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: Heikjo's first attempt at NY style Lehmann (12" on stone)
« Reply #25 on: July 12, 2016, 07:17:23 PM »
Yep, that's the one we're looking for.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline Heikjo

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Re: Heikjo's first attempt at NY style Lehmann (12" on stone)
« Reply #26 on: July 17, 2016, 02:59:04 PM »
Great! They said it's meant for a more powerful machine and not recommended for mine, but with the dough amount and speeds I will be using it at, I don't think it will be an issue.

New week, new pizzas. 2x 34 cm/13.38". I might have messed something up in the calculations, the dough weight came out a bit weird, but I think I got the hydration to 65%. I dialed the IDY down to 0.25%. I'll use the Lehmann calculator properly next time.

A bit different procedure this time.

  • Mix flour, salt, sugar and IDY in a bowl.
  • Add water to the mixing bowl.
  • Add flour mix to mixing bowl.
  • Mix at low for 2 minutes.
  • Add oil, mix at low for 2 minutes.
  • Mix at medium (I used 2) for 10 minutes.
  • Hand knead for 30 seconds.
  • Scale, shape, oil, into fridge.
  • Retard the first three hours uncovered.
  • Retard 21 hours covered.
  • Remove from fridge 2 hours before baking.
  • Shape, dress, bake at 275 C (527 F) for 7 minutes with fan and under heating setting.
  • Allow to cool for 3-5 minutes.

Question: Do you aim for the water to be 30 C in the mixing bowl or is that the temperature before you put it into the bowl? Using stainless steel, some heat is lost to the metal, but I don't know if it's of any significance. I measured the dough temperature after the hand kneading to 32 C (90 F).

The dough felt slightly stickier to the touch after mixing, which seems reasonable with the extra water.

The resulting pies were better than before, so the extra mixing time definitely helped. I don't really know if it was enough, but judging by the slow-motion video towards the end, I think there are more room for improvement. I think I'll get the spiral hook and see how that works out. I measured the temperature in the oven (not the stone) and it was 275 C on the maximum setting, which is fine.

I videotaped the first pie so you can see how it behaved during baking. I got a bit more oven spring and some bubbles. I don't know if the fan and under heating setting is ideal, but it is what's given me the best results so far. The crumb is still too much bread-like I think, but there are some tendencies to more air in it. Better than before, but more work to do still. I still wonder if I need to change the oven procedures, get a different stone/steel or something.

Very happy with the sauce this time, lots of flavors. The non-heating, less-is-more and retarding sauce is really a game changer for me. I added too much sauce on the first pie, so the middle got soggy, but it got better on the second one with less sauce. Also had some white castello on the first one, but it wasn't all that. Dropped it on the second one and it tasted great.

A few videos.

First one is at the start of the mixing phase at setting 2, with some slow motion. The power dial goes: 0 - min - 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - max. The dough definitely got thrown more around this time.



The second is towards the end of the mixing phase at setting 2, around 7-8 minutes into it. The dough has become more taut here and there is less kneading going on. Too much of the dough is just hanging onto the agitator as far as I can tell. Here is where I want the spiral hook.



Here's a shot of how the dough looked after mixing.



And finally the 7 minute baking at 275 C sped up to fit in half a minute.

« Last Edit: July 17, 2016, 03:15:38 PM by Heikjo »

Offline Heikjo

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Re: Heikjo's first attempt at NY style Lehmann (12" on stone)
« Reply #27 on: July 17, 2016, 03:00:57 PM »
More pictures.

Offline Heikjo

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Re: Heikjo's first attempt at NY style Lehmann (12" on stone)
« Reply #28 on: July 17, 2016, 03:01:38 PM »
More pictures.

Offline Heikjo

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Re: Heikjo's first attempt at NY style Lehmann (12" on stone)
« Reply #29 on: July 21, 2016, 01:01:37 PM »
Got the spiral today and made a new dough.

Lehmann 13", 33cm, 0.105

Flour (100%): 467.59 g
Water (65%): 303.93 g
IDY (0.25%): 1.17 g
Salt (1.75%): 8.18 g
Oil (1%): 4.68 g
Sugar (1%): 4.68 g
Total (169%): 790.22 g
Single Ball: 395.11 g

The spiral agitator is doing a better job than the old one. Maybe not as good as the best out there, but the dough is a lot smoother now. I adjusted the agitator as low as I could get it without touching the bowl. I used setting 2 and ran it for 10 minutes after the initial mixing and adding oil. First 2+2 minutes at Minimum. I'm using the K hook for the mixing and mixing in oil, but it's not very effective. After the first mix, everything just sticks to the hook and sits there. The K hook works fine for the first mix and getting the flour off the sides, but after 30 minutes it doesn't do much. I might switch to the spiral already there next time.

I'll bake the pies tomorrow.

First 10 seconds of the video is the start of the 10 minute mixing period. Second 10 seconds is at the end of it. Second video is how the dough looks after mixing.



« Last Edit: July 21, 2016, 01:18:53 PM by Heikjo »

Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: Heikjo's first attempt at NY style Lehmann (12" on stone)
« Reply #30 on: July 22, 2016, 12:36:28 AM »
No question about it, the new spiral agitator is giving you much better dough development. I might suggest that you add the water to the bowl first (before adding any other ingredients) as this will result in much more thorough and consistent flour hydration (your comments about using both agitators confirms this). Also, the videos of the new agitator mixing the dough shows that your dough size is too small for the bowl capacity. You will note when watching this video that the dough makes little contact with the sides of the bowl, only the bottom so mixing action still isn't what it should be. To address this I would make two more doughs, one with 50% more flour and one with 100% more flour to see how the dough interacts with the side of the bowl. You should be able to see the dough pulling off of the bottom of the bowl by the time the dough is fully mixed. Once the dough is pulling off of the bottom of the bowl you can pour just a small amount of oil down the inside of the bowl and mix for 10 to 15-seconds, the dough should just about pop out of the mixer by itself. You had also asked about the water temperature, 30C/86F, is too warm for the water temperature when a mechanical mixer is used. Instead, the water temperature (before placing it in the mixing bowl) should be about 21C/70F which should give you a finished (mixed) dough temperature between 80 to 85F / 26 to 29C.
The finished pizza is really looking quite good with a pretty decent open, porous crumb structure. If you want to achieve an even more open crumb structure begin experimenting with increased dough absorption. Begin increasing the dough absorption in 2% increments until the dough becomes too soft to handle, then back down by 2 or 3% and that'll be the maximum absorption your dough will carry for your method of dough management.
With improved mixing action with the larger dough size and the lower finished dough temperature you should be able to get away with an additional 5% in dough absorption before handling becomes an issue for you.
Keep us posted, and keep those great videos coming!!! :)
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline Heikjo

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Re: Heikjo's first attempt at NY style Lehmann (12" on stone)
« Reply #31 on: July 22, 2016, 05:32:47 AM »
Adding water first is how I do it today. Flour, IDY, salt and sugar is mixed in a separate bowl, then water is added to the mixing bowl and then the flour mix is dropped on top of the water before starting the mixing. An alternative could be to add the flour gradually while the mixer is running.

I'll try making a larger batch next time. It'll be another day with pizza, but that's something I can live with. I should start inviting more people for pizza so I can make a larger batch of dough. :)

Thank you for the clarification on the water temperature. I thought it got a bit high compared to the suggested final dough temperature. Also good to know that it's the water temperature before it's added to the bowl. I've only got one fridge that I run at 2-3 C, but since everything else is in there too, it will vary up to 7-8 C when something large is put in, then it will take a while to cool down. Sometime in the future when I get a house, I'd really like to have at least four refrigerators/coolers. One for the 0-4 C wares, one for greens and fruits (15-16 C), a small one for pizza and bread doughs at 2-3 C and one wine cooler.

The dough handled pretty well on this one, so I can probably up the absorption a little more and see how it works out.

Thanks again and I'll be sure to keep posting. Can't tell you how much I appreciate your input and I'm loving the pizzas.

Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: Heikjo's first attempt at NY style Lehmann (12" on stone)
« Reply #32 on: July 22, 2016, 09:36:50 AM »
Heijko;
Save yourself the extra step of blending together the flour, salt, IDY, and sugar in a separate bowl, instead just add all of the flour right on top of the water in the bowl, then add the salt, sugar and IDY right on top of the flour (no need to blend in.....trust me), as you start the mixer the agitator will do all of the blending that's needed. Keep in mind also that as you increase the dough absorption you will need to mix the dough a little longer to reach the development point where the dough pulls off of the bottom of the mixing bowl by itself.
I'm looking forward to seeing your next videos with higher dough absorption.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline Heikjo

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Re: Heikjo's first attempt at NY style Lehmann (12" on stone)
« Reply #33 on: Yesterday at 11:22:55 AM »
Will do.

I think I'll keep using the K-hook agitator (paddle) for the first mixing, but switch to the spiral once it's mixed and has climbed up the hook. After that I'll switch to the spiral agitator for the mixing of oil and the rest of the mixing. I can record some videos on the entire process.

Here's Friday's results. I got more rise on the crust and it was very airy. I could see straight through one of the slices. With the top of the crust becoming thin, it also becomes quite crispy after 7 minutes in the oven. I've been using convection with under heating so far, but I've wondered if the top gets too much heat this way. I switched to that setting earlier because the base didn't seem to get properly cooked, but I'm not sure if the top should get as much heat as it gets with convection. I could try turning off the convection one time to see how that works out.

I wonder if not using the convection would make the crust slightly less crispy. It was a bit hard to chew through this time I think.

I've also added a few photos of the stone I'm using. Can anyone identify what kind it is and do you think it is one I want to keep using? Could I experience better results with a different stone or steel?

Next time I'll increase the absorption and increase the dough with 50%. We invited a friend over so help us eat it up.

Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: Heikjo's first attempt at NY style Lehmann (12" on stone)
« Reply #34 on: Yesterday at 01:23:26 PM »
Heikjo;
If you keep making pizzas like that you're going to find out that you have a whole bunch of new friends. :)
I would continue to experiment with the convection fan on/off and with increased absorption with an increase in mixing time which will probably be necessary with the increased dough absorption. With the increase in dough size be sure to try using only the spiral mixing agitator for the entire mixing process, I'm just trying to make it easier for you to make your pizza dough.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor


 

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