Author Topic: Can't get the proper "rise"  (Read 838 times)

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Offline theppgcowboy

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Re: Can't get the proper "rise"
« Reply #20 on: April 23, 2015, 11:11:52 PM »
What is the temp of your fridge?  I think that with the amount of yeast you are using at 45 degrees your time is about 100 hours, or just over 4 days, if at 40 degrees you are around 161 hours.  48 hours may not be enough.  For you to get a 48 hour time your fridge would need to be about 55 degrees.

Offline varnco

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Re: Can't get the proper "rise"
« Reply #21 on: April 24, 2015, 02:18:28 AM »
What is the temp of your fridge?  I think that with the amount of yeast you are using at 45 degrees your time is about 100 hours, or just over 4 days, if at 40 degrees you are around 161 hours.  48 hours may not be enough.  For you to get a 48 hour time your fridge would need to be about 55 degrees.

Fridge is  running at about 42*

4 days+ in the fridge?

Offline theppgcowboy

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Re: Can't get the proper "rise"
« Reply #22 on: April 24, 2015, 05:19:03 AM »
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=26831.180

Here is the link to the yeast prediction model from the General pizza thread, look at reply 188.  At 42 degrees, you should be at about 132 hours that's 5.5 days.  It is usually right in the ball park. If you look at the recipe put up in this thread from Pete-zza, your amount of yeast comes to .06. So your doughs are under developed by a ways.
Try this, make a batch of about 4 balls or so, and then watch them over the next week.  That will should get you well into a nicely proofed dough ball, you will find at day 7 and 8, you have a pretty tasty pizza. I would not touch one until day 5 at your current schedule, or modify something to shorten the period of fermentation.  Try to take one to the point of over proof.
For me, and this depends on the temp of the room, I let them sit on the counter covered for several hours, sometimes 4 or 5 even more before they get into the fridge, I want to give that yeast a little bump. This for a 2 to 3 day dough.
You bumped up the salt, where are you at with that?
You can do the above or shorten the time by adding yeast or during one of those days let one sit on the counter in the middle of the process for X amount of hours or more.  It is a dance I know but you will figure out a routine that will put you in the 48 hour time period if that is the time period you are looking at.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2015, 05:31:54 AM by theppgcowboy »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Can't get the proper "rise"
« Reply #23 on: April 24, 2015, 05:48:04 AM »
varnco,

Can you tell us how much ADY you used, by percent?

Peter

Offline theppgcowboy

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Re: Can't get the proper "rise"
« Reply #24 on: April 24, 2015, 11:02:46 AM »
I see where you are going Peter, I read it as .06 not .6.  If he used .6, he should be in the ball park at the temp he is at I would think although it is off the chart.  I would then make a couple of  balls and let them sit and see at what point the become fully proofed. Then he should know where to go from there.

Offline TheRailroadBulls

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Re: Can't get the proper "rise"
« Reply #25 on: April 24, 2015, 12:24:00 PM »
So, I've been trying the following recipe, but it is inconsistent at best, and I just can't seem to get the puffy dough, and it seems a bit bland, but i don't just want to add salt:

King Arthur's Bread Flour, 10.15 oz by weight
Water, 6.29 oz, by weight
ADY .5 tsp
Salt .5 tsp
Extra Virgin Olive Oil, 2tsp
Sugar, 1.25tsp

I mix the salt and water first in kitchen aids for 2 minutes, add in the other ingredients, and when it's all coming together, I'll add in the olive oil and then let the dough hook mix it on speed 2 for 12 minutes. I immediately round the ball and lightly coat it with olive oil, put it in tupperware, and refrigerate for 48 hours. I put the dough out on the counter 2-3 hours before shaping the dough

To shape the dough, I press down on it lightly to make it a circle and then make a ridge along the edges for the crust. I then turn the circle of dough on a flowered tabletop while stretching it outward with both hands. Stretch, turn, stretch, turn. I let it sit for a few minutes if it starts to resist stretching, and then continue again until I get 16". I will usually let the dough sit for about 10-15 minutes

My oven has a max temperature of 550*F. I will heat the oven, with a stone until it reaches reaches 550*. I will let it sit for about 15 minutes of reaching max temp before adding the pizza. I add the sauce, cheese, and pepperoni, all cold, and will cook in oven for 8 minutes on the 2nd from top rack.

Thoughts, tips, etc.? to get more flavor in crust and puffy crust?

I make it exactly the same each time, and it's slightly different each time.. why would this be?

Thanks.

I use my own haphazard technique for making my dough, that I tend to not share since it's not the way things are usually done. BUT... I will note a few things I noticed about your post:

A lot of guys say to never add cold sauce, it should be about room temp. That goes for a few different toppings in fact.

Also, if you add your salt as the absolute last thing, then not only will it still incorporate just fine, but the grains of salt will work sort of like a gentle sandpaper that will help wipe down the sides of your bowl in the final stages of mixing. Some folks (myself included) swear by this method.

You might wanna put your stone/steel in the bottom half of your oven (or even on the bottom... floor even), and use a standard bake instead of convection, because ideally you don't WANT an even temp. (I've only used one home oven where convection worked better, and I've baked in a lot of ovens).

I also noticed that some of your measurements are given by weight, and some by volume. If you're measuring ingredients by volume then minor variances are to be expected. My scale doesn't go down to tenths of a gram, so I ALWAYS measure by volume until I can get another working scale.... and I actually like that there are small differences from pie to pie. It feels more homemade and less mechanical to me when no two are alike. :-)

Also, how old is your yeast and how do you store it? And, are you using Sea Salt or Kosher? Kosher salt isn't as strong, so if a recipe calls for 1.5 teaspoons of sea salt... it'd probably be more like a Tablespoon if you're dealing with Kosher salt. If I remember right, Kosher Salt just means it's shaped flat instead of round to sit better when sprinkled on Kosher Bread?
"Chop your own wood and it will warm you twice." - Henry Ford

Offline varnco

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Re: Can't get the proper "rise"
« Reply #26 on: Yesterday at 12:24:51 PM »

You bumped up the salt, where are you at with that?
You can do the above or shorten the time by adding yeast or during one of those days let one sit on the counter in the middle of the process for X amount of hours or more.  It is a dance I know but you will figure out a routine that will put you in the 48 hour time period if that is the time period you are looking at.

I am at 1tsp of salt.

I want the cold rise flavor, but don't want to wait 5+ days for dough to be ready... I can't plan out that far in advance. 48hrs is max. How much yeast would you suggest I add, keeping in mind, I don't want the dough to have that yeast smell.

Thanks.


Offline varnco

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Re: Can't get the proper "rise"
« Reply #27 on: Yesterday at 12:25:46 PM »
varnco,

Can you tell us how much ADY you used, by percent?

Peter

Based on the formula, from the calculator, it indicates .75%

Offline varnco

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Re: Can't get the proper "rise"
« Reply #28 on: Yesterday at 12:30:01 PM »

Also, if you add your salt as the absolute last thing, then not only will it still incorporate just fine, but the grains of salt will work sort of like a gentle sandpaper that will help wipe down the sides of your bowl in the final stages of mixing. Some folks (myself included) swear by this method.

You might wanna put your stone/steel in the bottom half of your oven (or even on the bottom... floor even), and use a standard bake instead of convection, because ideally you don't WANT an even temp. (I've only used one home oven where convection worked better, and I've baked in a lot of ovens).

I also noticed that some of your measurements are given by weight, and some by volume. If you're measuring ingredients by volume then minor variances are to be expected. My scale doesn't go down to tenths of a gram, so I ALWAYS measure by volume until I can get another working scale.... and I actually like that there are small differences from pie to pie. It feels more homemade and less mechanical to me when no two are alike. :-)

Also, how old is your yeast and how do you store it? And, are you using Sea Salt or Kosher? Kosher salt isn't as strong, so if a recipe calls for 1.5 teaspoons of sea salt... it'd probably be more like a Tablespoon if you're dealing with Kosher salt. If I remember right, Kosher Salt just means it's shaped flat instead of round to sit better when sprinkled on Kosher Bread?

I mix the ADY and warm water. While it's sitting, in a separate bowl, I combine all the other ingredients (sans oil). I then just dump the other ingredients into the bowl and start mixing. When the dough starts clumping up and pulling away from the edges of the bowl, I'll add in the oil.

Yeast is about 6 months old now, and it is stored in the cupboard, at about 75 - 80*

Using normal table salt.

Thanks for any tips.

Offline Jackitup

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Re: Can't get the proper "rise"
« Reply #29 on: Yesterday at 01:17:21 PM »
I mix the ADY and warm water. While it's sitting, in a separate bowl, I combine all the other ingredients (sans oil). I then just dump the other ingredients into the bowl and start mixing. When the dough starts clumping up and pulling away from the edges of the bowl, I'll add in the oil.

Yeast is about 6 months old now, and it is stored in the cupboard, at about 75 - 80*

Using normal table salt.

Thanks for any tips.

Store yeast in a glass jar in the fridge, I would get new and start over. In the fridge you'll get a couple years easy! My jar turned 3 years old in January and is still good. Does not need to be frozen, a good glass mason jar will do.

jon
“The two most important days in your life are the day you are born and the day you find out why.”            -Mark Twain


Offline jkb

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Re: Can't get the proper "rise"
« Reply #30 on: Yesterday at 05:25:44 PM »
Add a little blue pill to the dough.


Seriously, two pages in and I'm the first with the Viagra quip?

Offline varnco

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Re: Can't get the proper "rise"
« Reply #31 on: Yesterday at 05:31:11 PM »
The yeast is still good, as I tested it per the directions of the manufacturer, and it doubled in size.

1 cup warm water
2 tsp ADY
sugar

It doubled in size in 15 minutes (no blue bills needed).

Offline varnco

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Re: Can't get the proper "rise"
« Reply #32 on: Yesterday at 05:51:38 PM »
Okay, so after I make my dough, I should leave it out, covered for about how many hours, before putting it in the fridge to continue it's slow rise?

Offline jkb

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Re: Can't get the proper "rise"
« Reply #33 on: Yesterday at 06:09:18 PM »
No need to leave it out.  Straight in the fridge.  Take it out 3-4 hrs before you prep it.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 08:42:03 PM by jkb »

Offline theppgcowboy

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Re: Can't get the proper "rise"
« Reply #34 on: Yesterday at 07:50:33 PM »
Okay, so after I make my dough, I should leave it out, covered for about how many hours, before putting it in the fridge to continue it's slow rise?
For some reason you are getting very little action in your dough, and it has me stumped.  I think if you go with your recipe, put a ball in the counter and see just how long it takes to double in size, in the fridge, one on the counter at room temp and see how long that one takes.  Two days in the fridge with literally no yeast action is a long time in my view.  Maybe it is the water you use, but there is something weird going on. Just try a few things and then go from there. Even in an emergency I can make a batch in the am, and they are more that double by evening If I really have to have a few extra.

Offline varnco

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Re: Can't get the proper "rise"
« Reply #35 on: Yesterday at 11:19:08 PM »
No need to leave it out.  Straight in the fridge.  Take it out 3-4 hrs before you prep it.

Ya, but the dough isn't rising like it is supposed to (see pictures earlier in the thread showing little change after 48 hours).

And, according to another post, given my yeast %, it would have to sit in the fridge for 4+ days... I can't plan that far out.


Offline varnco

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Re: Can't get the proper "rise"
« Reply #36 on: Yesterday at 11:19:51 PM »
For some reason you are getting very little action in your dough, and it has me stumped.  I think if you go with your recipe, put a ball in the counter and see just how long it takes to double in size, in the fridge, one on the counter at room temp and see how long that one takes.  Two days in the fridge with literally no yeast action is a long time in my view.  Maybe it is the water you use, but there is something weird going on. Just try a few things and then go from there. Even in an emergency I can make a batch in the am, and they are more that double by evening If I really have to have a few extra.

Just using Reverse Osmosis water, as the water in Phoenix is nasty.

I'll try a dough ball sitting out and see how long it takes to double.


 

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