Author Topic: More flavour in dough  (Read 75009 times)

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Offline bigMoose

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Re: More flavour in dough
« Reply #725 on: July 12, 2014, 06:49:58 PM »
Bob:  I did read that  but still would never put any dough product in a microwave not even for a few seconds.  Walter
That might be my issue.  I did as Bob said, microwave just to defrost.  Must be that part of the process that messed things up.  Also the 1 day ferment pie made the trip north in the cold of winter and the 5 day ferment came up in the heat of summer... so many variables!

Next time I will think ahead and take a slice from the freezer to the fridge the night before.


Offline waltertore

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Re: More flavour in dough
« Reply #726 on: July 12, 2014, 06:52:57 PM »
That might be my issue.  I did as Bob said, microwave just to defrost.  Must be that part of the process that messed things up.  Also the 1 day ferment pie made the trip north in the cold of winter and the 5 day ferment came up in the heat of summer... so many variables!

Next time I will think ahead and take a slice from the freezer to the fridge the night before.

Dave:  I take the slice out of the freeze 10 minutes before using.  It defrosts enough to put in pan and reheat.  We ate cold and multi day in the fridge cooked slices back in NJ. Walter

here is one that I took home pedaling on my bike, in 90 degree heat, put in fridge and reheated the next day. It tasted fine to me but maybe my taste buds are wacked out :)
« Last Edit: July 12, 2014, 06:55:41 PM by waltertore »

Offline norma427

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Re: More flavour in dough
« Reply #727 on: July 12, 2014, 07:24:42 PM »

You all are invited anytime.  Weekends are best and summer anytime is good.  We have a detached living space on our property so Norma can have her own apt with full bath, central a/c/heat, twin bed, cable.  I can pick you up at the airport too so all you need is airfare $ to make it happen.  We will feed you lunch and breakfast.   That would be a fun time for sure!  Walter

Walter,

Thanks so much!  I will have to see what airfare would be to your place.  Other members might have to see if they are available when I am. 

Norma

Offline waltertore

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Re: More flavour in dough
« Reply #728 on: July 12, 2014, 07:40:43 PM »
Walter,

Thanks so much!  I will have to see what airfare would be to your place.  Other members might have to see if they are available when I am. 

Norma

Sounds good Norma!   You could bring your doughes or make a 1 day dough here.  Walter

Offline norma427

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Re: More flavour in dough
« Reply #729 on: July 14, 2014, 06:33:35 PM »
A 5 dough ball batch was mixed today with 5% lard and 58% hydration.  Even though I used cold water out of the deli case the dough temperature was not that low.  This batch of dough had the same amounts of ingredients (except the yeast) of the dough that was made at Reply 54 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=32478.msg325217#msg325217 The dough ball on the other thread is to test if an almost 2-day dough make with the Lallemand aromatic yeast can produce a better flavor in the crust. 

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: More flavour in dough
« Reply #730 on: July 14, 2014, 06:44:40 PM »
Another test batch of dough was made somewhat like last weeks dough that I liked somewhat.  I did not really post on how that dough ball batch worked out last week but thought it showed some promise.  The dough is sticky coming out of the mixer bowl.  I then ball it somewhat like the Detroit style dough.  The only thing I don't do differently is flour the dough batch before scaling.

I don't know how any of the dough batches will work out for tomorrow.  The prep fridge had remained constant in temperature and then started climbing today.  I removed all of the cheese, pepperoni and dough balls from the prep fridge and put them all in the deli case.  That was a tight fit.  A lot of dough balls were piled on top of one another.  I know that is not a good way to cool them.  I fiddled with the prep fridge and it started cooling again.  I put some of the dough balls back into the prep fridge but don't know if it will continue to fall in temperature.  I might not have enough good dough balls for tomorrow.

Even though I wrote on the print out that was six dough balls it really was for more dough balls.

Norma
« Last Edit: July 14, 2014, 06:48:47 PM by norma427 »

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: More flavour in dough
« Reply #731 on: July 14, 2014, 06:54:54 PM »
Another test batch of dough was made somewhat like last weeks dough that I liked somewhat.  I did not really post on how that dough ball batch worked out last week but thought it showed some promise.  The dough is sticky coming out of the mixer bowl.  I then ball it somewhat like the Detroit style dough.  The only thing I don't do differently is flour the dough batch before scaling.

I don't know how any of the dough batches will work out for tomorrow.  The prep fridge had remained constant in temperature and then started climbing today.  I removed all of the cheese, pepperoni and dough balls from the prep fridge and put them all in the deli case.  That was a tight fit.  A lot of dough balls were piled on top of one another.  I know that is not a good way to cool them.  I fiddled with the prep fridge and it started cooling again.  I put some of the dough balls back into the prep fridge but don't know if it will continue to fall in temperature.  I might not have enough good dough balls for tomorrow.

Even though I wrote on the print out that was six dough balls it really was for more dough balls.

Norma
one of those little dorm frigs could hold many dough balls if you stack `em right on wire racks maqybe
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Offline norma427

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Re: More flavour in dough
« Reply #732 on: July 14, 2014, 07:28:21 PM »
one of those little dorm frigs could hold many dough balls if you stack `em right on wire racks maqybe

Thanks Bob!  The equipment at my stand has to be NSF Certified Food Equipment.  That is one problem with owning a food business that serves food to the public because NSF food equipment is expensive.

Norma

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: More flavour in dough
« Reply #733 on: July 14, 2014, 08:54:40 PM »
Thanks Bob!  The equipment at my stand has to be NSF Certified Food Equipment.  That is one problem with owning a food business that serves food to the public because NSF food equipment is expensive.

Norma
keep it plugged in out in the van.   >:D
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Offline norma427

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Re: More flavour in dough
« Reply #734 on: July 14, 2014, 09:08:53 PM »
keep it plugged in out in the van.   >:D

Lol Bob!  I will soon have to get the prep fridge looked at again.  This week is kind of hectic though because I am getting replacement windows for my place. 

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: More flavour in dough
« Reply #735 on: July 16, 2014, 09:25:37 AM »
These are some photos of the dough ball with more hydration and lard, and photos of two slices from two different pizzas.  This dough ball was taken out of the deli case at the same time the Lallemand yeast dough ball was. 

I thought the little increase in hydration and lard did help the pizza crusts.  The dough balls opened up nicely too.

A refrigeration repairman is coming to look at the prep fridge either tomorrow or Friday. 

Norma

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: More flavour in dough
« Reply #736 on: July 16, 2014, 09:33:27 AM »
Norma,

FYI, the poppy seed spacing for the dough ball shown in your last post suggests a doubling in the volume of the dough. That is good. I also like the looks of the pizza.

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: More flavour in dough
« Reply #737 on: July 16, 2014, 11:31:44 AM »
Norma,

FYI, the poppy seed spacing for the dough ball shown in your last post suggests a doubling in the volume of the dough. That is good. I also like the looks of the pizza.

Peter

Peter,

I saw that the poppy seed spacing suggested that the dough ball about doubled in volume.  The dough ball was left out long until it could be made into a pizza.  The dough ball still performed well.  I think the formulation is what I am going to use at market for the boardwalk style pizzas.

Norma 

Offline Donjo911

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Re: More flavour in dough
« Reply #738 on: July 16, 2014, 02:04:46 PM »
Norma,
You're so thoughtful to post such detailed photographs of your process and what "things" look like.  In many cases, like the B&W photos in this thread above, one can almost "feel" the dough by way of how you set up each picture! That combined with your formula and other details -  It's incredibly helpful!


Thank you, Thank you, and Thanks again!


Sincerely,
Don
I have done wrong.. but what I did, I thought needed to be done.

Offline norma427

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Re: More flavour in dough
« Reply #739 on: July 16, 2014, 03:19:15 PM »
Norma,
You're so thoughtful to post such detailed photographs of your process and what "things" look like.  In many cases, like the B&W photos in this thread above, one can almost "feel" the dough by way of how you set up each picture! That combined with your formula and other details -  It's incredibly helpful!


Thank you, Thank you, and Thanks again!


Sincerely,
Don

Don,

I am glad the photos, details and formulations have helped you understand more after the doughs I am experimenting with.

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: More flavour in dough
« Reply #740 on: July 16, 2014, 03:57:15 PM »
The other experimental dough that I posted about at Reply 730 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=30641.msg325353#msg325353 turned out to be a mess.  I had upped the hydration and the oil amount from last week.  That was a huge mistake.  The dough balls were so sticky coming out of the plastic bags that I had to tear each plastic bag and drop the dough balls into the flour.  There also were shaping problems with the dough balls before they became skins.  After shaping the dough balls they did open okay.  Some of the pizzas wanted to stick on the peel.  The final pizzas baked okay but sure were not round.  That is the last time I am trying that formulation.  At least those sticky dough balls gave me more practice in how to open dough balls that are not optimal.   

Norma

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: More flavour in dough
« Reply #741 on: July 16, 2014, 04:07:47 PM »
Norma,

Were you using the Full Strength flour? If so, I really don't see anything off with your dough formulation. Did you leave the dough balls at room temperature for some time before using? Or maybe your cooling problems sped up the fermentation. Maybe it is the lighting but the top crust coloration looks to me to be on the light side.

Peter


Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: More flavour in dough
« Reply #742 on: July 16, 2014, 04:38:00 PM »
crust looked very white 2 days ago...yesterday looked jus about how she likes it.
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Offline norma427

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Re: More flavour in dough
« Reply #743 on: July 16, 2014, 08:04:55 PM »
Norma,

Were you using the Full Strength flour? If so, I really don't see anything off with your dough formulation. Did you leave the dough balls at room temperature for some time before using? Or maybe your cooling problems sped up the fermentation. Maybe it is the lighting but the top crust coloration looks to me to be on the light side.

Peter

Peter,

Yes, I was using GM Full Strength flour.  I don't know if I added the wrong amount of water or not, but last week the dough batch was not that sticky after it was mixed (the formulation was a little bit different).  Monday was very humid in our area but I don't think that was the cause of the sticky batch because for almost all of the flour in the formulation came from a newly opened bag of flour.  I initially thought why was the dough so sticky, but decided to deal with it.  I moved the dough balls around a lot on Monday when the prep fridge was acting up.  The prep fridge on Tuesday hinged right between 38-40 degrees F.  That is right on the verge of being too hot.  The top crusts on a lot of my whole pizzas look almost that light when I take photos of them under artificial lighting at market.  That is one reason that I am not posting much of the whole pizza photos from market lately.

This is a photo of some of the dough balls in the prep fridge on Tuesday.  Some of the dough balls were in the deli case. 

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: More flavour in dough
« Reply #744 on: July 18, 2014, 10:39:54 AM »
Well I learned some new things about the prep fridge (at market today) when the repairman came to look at why the prep fridge does not want to hold the temperatures okay.  For on thing the prep fridge is not meant to be run over 90 degrees F.  The repairman asked me if I had another container to put in the left back of the prep fridge.  I said I did have an extra container, but I store the extra pepperoni there and don't use the extra container.  The repairman told me the extra container would insulate the top of the prep fridge a lot better.  I knew the top of the prep fridge was not insulated but did not know that the extra container would help to keep the temperatures lower.  The repairman said they he was always taught to tell businesses to use all of the containers on the top of any prep fridge.  He asked me if when some of the other repairmen came out if they didn't tell me the same thing.  I said no, no one ever told me about that.  He said he would tell the manager and make sure all of the repairmen tell their customers the same thing.  He also told me I have a top of the line Beverage Air prep fridge and usually they are very good prep fridges.  He told me my type of prep fridge is built very good.  I also asked if there is a defrost sensor on the prep fridge and he told me no there is no defrost sensor on my prep fridge.     

The repairman also asked me if I could move the prep fridge away from beside of the deck oven.  I said I was thinking about doing that when the maintenance men repair my floor.  I did talk to the market manager again this past Tuesday about the repairing of the floor and now one of the maintenance men at out sick for a long while.  I might never get the floor repaired. ::) I had thought about moving the prep fridge to the right hand side of the bench when the floor is repaired. 

The repairman told me there are prep fridges that can run in hotter temperatures (like at market) but those prep fridges run about 5,000.00.  :o I said forget about that because I only operate one day a week at market.  The repairman chuckled and agreed with me about a really expensive prep fridge for market.  After checking everything the repairman said the prep fridge is running fine and it should do okay now that the other container is installed.  At least that is good news.

I told the repairman I am also having problems with the deli case icing up but it does keep the temperatures constant even if it ices up some.  He told me that the heat and high humidity are also probably icing up that unit at times.  I monitor that on days when I am at market and defrost when needed.  The repairman told me the deli case does not have a defrost sensor either. 

The prep fridge came down to the right temperature quickly today.  I will go back to market and check it again after I pick up some more flour and other things I need at market.

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: More flavour in dough
« Reply #745 on: July 18, 2014, 05:23:21 PM »
I guess now I have another problem with the prep fridge.  The repairman told me this morning that since the prep fridge wants to freeze up in the hotter temperatures at market he was going to set the thermostat different so it it would not cycle as much.  He said he could set it lower but he was afraid it would still start to freeze up again in a days time.  He said the prep fridge should stay at about 38 degrees F after he set the thermostat.  Well, now it stays exactly at 40 degrees F (top and bottom) no matter what I did this afternoon. 

Who knows how what value of yeast of I will have to add to the doughs on Monday.  I sure don't know what to do.  :-D

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: More flavour in dough
« Reply #746 on: July 23, 2014, 09:46:43 AM »
The prep fridge did work well yesterday in keeping a constant temperature, and it did not freeze up at all.  Changing the thermostat temperature and putting the extra container in the top seems to have worked.  Some of the boardwalk style dough balls can be seen in the first photo.  I had turned the deli case temperature up a little and it did not freeze up at all since Friday.  It was about 94 degrees F inside the stand yesterday and the dough balls did not ferment too much while warming up on the bench.   

I am still not satisfied with the dough formulation and how the boardwalk style pies baked though.  The rim crust is okay but the bottom crust is not brown enough.  I don't know what to do about that.  I might just go back to some kind of formulation without lard.  All the boardwalk style dough batches were made with the same formulation that I used for the 5 test dough balls last week (except changed the yeast value).

I have a new customer for the boardwalk style of pizza since last week.  He saw I offered boardwalk style of pizza and asked me what they taste like.  I said I try to make them to taste like a Mack's or Manco & Manco pizza.  He said Mack's pizza is his favorite pizza.  He said he grew up right down the street from one of the Mack's in Trenton, NJ.  Last week he tasted a slice and said my boardwalk pizza tastes just like a Mack's pizza.  He came back for a second slice.  This week he came back for a whole pie and asked me if I am located at a regular pizzeria.  I said no I am not located anywhere else.  He said no one in this area offers anything like a Mack's pizza.  I said I know that and that is why I was trying to recreate a Mack's pizza.  I told the man I also grew up on Mack's pizzas and they always were my favorite pizzas.  We also got talking about some of other favorite kinds of pizzas and the mans second favorite kind of pizza is De Lorezno's.  I said that is also one of my favorite pizzas.  The man told me he is going to be coming every week to get a whole pie.

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: More flavour in dough
« Reply #747 on: July 23, 2014, 10:31:01 AM »
These are two slices I brought home (from the end of the evening) to see how they would reheat.  The slices were only put on paper plates and placed into a smaller container than they should have been put in.  It can be seen how the bottom crust are not evenly browned.

Norma

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: More flavour in dough
« Reply #748 on: July 23, 2014, 11:05:01 AM »
I am still not satisfied with the dough formulation and how the boardwalk style pies baked though.  The rim crust is okay but the bottom crust is not brown enough.  I don't know what to do about that.  I might just go back to some kind of formulation without lard.  All the boardwalk style dough batches were made with the same formulation that I used for the 5 test dough balls last week (except changed the yeast value).
Norma,

Can you provide a link to the formulation you used to make the most recent boardwalk style pizza?

Peter

Offline norma427

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Re: More flavour in dough
« Reply #749 on: July 23, 2014, 01:03:44 PM »
Norma,

Can you provide a link to the formulation you used to make the most recent boardwalk style pizza?

Peter

Peter,

The formulation I used is at Reply 729 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=30641.msg325350#msg325350  I changed the yeast value to 0.28 % on Monday.

I also saw about the best pizzas in our area today on facebook.  I did leave a comment.  >:D Of course my small pizza business is not mentioned, but a pizza business like CiCi's is listed.   ::)

Best pizza in the Susquehanna Valley? Facebook fans have their say
 
http://www.wgal.com/entertainment/best-pizza-in-the-susquehanna-valley-facebook-fans-have-their-say/21400320#!bkwaDu 

Norma


 

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