Author Topic: a 5 day cold ferment pie-hard to beat  (Read 3539 times)

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Offline waltertore

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a 5 day cold ferment pie-hard to beat
« on: March 11, 2014, 12:17:18 PM »
Slow day today so I get to play around(made 3 different doughes to sample tomorrow) some.  I have been experimenting back and forth with Norma to make a flavorful same day and or 24 cold ferment dough.  Today I baked off some dough we made Friday.  Man it was good and if there is a way to capture this in a 24 hour dough it would be a great thing for small pizzeria owners.   Walter
« Last Edit: March 11, 2014, 02:35:56 PM by waltertore »


Offline Seven

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Re: a 5 day cold ferment pie-hard to beat
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2014, 03:59:54 PM »
Looks great, Walter! How was the taste compared to your normal dough? Did it open up the same?

Out of curiosity, how much sauce and cheese do you normally use on one of your pies? The ratio looks perfect to me. I typically use 8 ounces of cheese but my pies shrink up to around 16 inches...I need to stop shaking them on the peel before I launch! Thanks!

Offline waltertore

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Re: a 5 day cold ferment pie-hard to beat
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2014, 04:30:46 PM »
Looks great, Walter! How was the taste compared to your normal dough? Did it open up the same?

Out of curiosity, how much sauce and cheese do you normally use on one of your pies? The ratio looks perfect to me. I typically use 8 ounces of cheese but my pies shrink up to around 16 inches...I need to stop shaking them on the peel before I launch! Thanks!

Thanks!  the flavor/texture is hard to describe with words. I just liked it.  We use approx 8oz cheese on an 18" pie (20 oz doughball without oil/sugar).  Sauce wise I don't know.  We have an old spoon (not a ladel).  About 2.5 spoon fulls sauce it just right for my tastes.  People out here are so use to chain pizza that is loaded with everything that they worry about gaining weight with ours as well.  I tell them about an ounce of cheese per slice and 2.5oz of dough.  They like that.  I wouldn't stop shaking before launching.  That could lead to a big mess if it sticks.  We always give it a little shake to make sure everything is moving freely. Walter
« Last Edit: March 11, 2014, 04:33:07 PM by waltertore »

Offline Donjo911

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Re: a 5 day cold ferment pie-hard to beat
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2014, 05:13:04 PM »
They do look great as always. Your consistency is amazing! Thanks for the cheese measurement. I have always wanted to know your cheese weight (as well as other great looking pies from other members) as well.
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Offline waltertore

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Re: a 5 day cold ferment pie-hard to beat
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2014, 07:48:56 PM »
They do look great as always. Your consistency is amazing! Thanks for the cheese measurement. I have always wanted to know your cheese weight (as well as other great looking pies from other members) as well.

You are welcome.  IMO less is best and let the crust be the focus with the toppings complimenting and not overpowering. We don't measure out toppings or sauce but recently some of our regulars started saying they were getting worried about gaining weight from eating so many of our pies.  That got me to  figuring out general weights.  Now they are a lot less concerned with eating out pies :)  Walter

Offline dmckean44

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Re: a 5 day cold ferment pie-hard to beat
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2014, 11:51:18 PM »
Have you experimented the preferments at all?

Offline waltertore

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Re: a 5 day cold ferment pie-hard to beat
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2014, 06:28:50 AM »
Have you experimented the preferments at all?

Yes  but nothing to top a multiday cold ferment so far.  I am running 3 dough camparisons today.  We  have a thread going - more flavor in the dough on this forum.  Walter

Offline DIY Whiz

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Re: a 5 day cold ferment pie-hard to beat
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2014, 08:35:53 AM »
Hi Walter - what do you have your oven set to and approximately how long do you bake your pies for?

pete
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Re: a 5 day cold ferment pie-hard to beat
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2014, 09:03:13 AM »
Slow day today so I get to play around(made 3 different doughes to sample tomorrow) some.  I have been experimenting back and forth with Norma to make a flavorful same day and or 24 cold ferment dough.  Today I baked off some dough we made Friday.  Man it was good and if there is a way to capture this in a 24 hour dough it would be a great thing for small pizzeria owners.   Walter

Poolish and 48hr cold rise is money.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2014, 09:06:38 AM by pythonic »
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Offline waltertore

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Re: a 5 day cold ferment pie-hard to beat
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2014, 09:37:13 AM »
Hi Walter - what do you have your oven set to and approximately how long do you bake your pies for?

pete

Pete:  we use a stack of vintage (1976) Blodgett 1000 ovens.  These contain the original stones which are no longer made.  They hold heat better than anything made today.  There are no hot/cold spots in our ovens thus no rotating is needed.  There also is little to no recovery time with them when you are running full load after full load.  They are set to appox 565 degrees and the pies take about 6 minutes to cook.  Walter


Offline waltertore

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Re: a 5 day cold ferment pie-hard to beat
« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2014, 09:39:35 AM »
Poolish and 48hr cold rise is money.

Today I have 3 different 24 hour cold ferments that we will taste test.  There are 2 dough balls of each
IDY poolish
sourdough starter
regular 24 hour ferment

I kept 2 of each in the fridge to test tomorrow.  To be continued

Online norma427

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Re: a 5 day cold ferment pie-hard to beat
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2014, 09:57:36 AM »
Walter,

Your pizzas from the 5 day cold ferment look delicious! 

Will be interested in what kind of results you get from your three experiments today.

Norma
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Re: a 5 day cold ferment pie-hard to beat
« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2014, 10:16:17 AM »
Thanks Walter. Your pizzas are perfectly beautiful.  It would be great to see a photo of the pies after you have sauced them and then again after you have spread the cheese (but before baking).  Also, is that only Mozzarella, or do you have a bit of some other type of cheese in the mix? 

Offline waltertore

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Re: a 5 day cold ferment pie-hard to beat
« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2014, 11:09:23 AM »
Walter,

Your pizzas from the 5 day cold ferment look delicious! 

Will be interested in what kind of results you get from your three experiments today.

Norma

thanks Norma.  They did taste good IMO.  I am getting ready to put the test pies in the oven.  Things are pretty slow here at the moment so hopefully I will get my pictures straight :)  Walter

Offline waltertore

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Re: a 5 day cold ferment pie-hard to beat
« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2014, 11:11:02 AM »
Thanks Walter. Your pizzas are perfectly beautiful.  It would be great to see a photo of the pies after you have sauced them and then again after you have spread the cheese (but before baking).  Also, is that only Mozzarella, or do you have a bit of some other type of cheese in the mix?

Thanks!  I will try but we get so busy here I have little time most times for the camera.  Most of the shots are of done pies because things have slowed at that point.  Just Grande LMWM mozz.  and topped with shredded parm/reg.  Walter

Offline waltertore

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Re: a 5 day cold ferment pie-hard to beat
« Reply #15 on: March 12, 2014, 02:18:54 PM »
Thanks Walter. Your pizzas are perfectly beautiful.  It would be great to see a photo of the pies after you have sauced them and then again after you have spread the cheese (but before baking).  Also, is that only Mozzarella, or do you have a bit of some other type of cheese in the mix?

Here is one of the sourdough starter preferment experiment we did today.  The pizza came out unacceptable but the amount of cheese and sauce is typical of what we do. Pie is 18", approx 8oz cheese, sauce amount unknown.  Walter

Offline pdog

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Re: a 5 day cold ferment pie-hard to beat
« Reply #16 on: May 06, 2014, 03:41:29 PM »
Hi Walter - I gave a 5 day cold ferment a go.  The taste was great.  The only issue I had was the dough wanted to run all over the place an stretch into a huge pie. 

Do you experience this as well?  The dough stretched so easily (too easily) that I had trouble keeping it below 20 inches haha. 

Offline waltertore

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Re: a 5 day cold ferment pie-hard to beat
« Reply #17 on: May 06, 2014, 07:35:52 PM »
Hi Walter - I gave a 5 day cold ferment a go.  The taste was great.  The only issue I had was the dough wanted to run all over the place an stretch into a huge pie. 

Do you experience this as well?  The dough stretched so easily (too easily) that I had trouble keeping it below 20 inches haha.

pdog:  Maybe you had too much yeast, to warm a ferment in the fridge, too much water, sat on the bench too long?   Our dough opens very easy and can either be hand tossed, hand stretched, or bench stretched, when it is in prime shape.  The only time we experience the dough too loose to toss is when it has sat out too long.  We pull the dough out 1-2 hours before using it but if it sits out 3 or more it gets real loose and you have to be careful working it.  Walter

« Last Edit: May 06, 2014, 07:40:12 PM by waltertore »

Offline waltertore

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Re: a 5 day cold ferment pie-hard to beat
« Reply #18 on: May 06, 2014, 07:43:50 PM »
They do look great as always. Your consistency is amazing! Thanks for the cheese measurement. I have always wanted to know your cheese weight (as well as other great looking pies from other members) as well.

I just re-read this thread.  I think our cheese weight is closer to 10-12oz per pie the last few months.  I weighed it the other day and that is about what I came up with if I remember right.  We don't weigh the cheese.  It is all by feel.  Also the pies go 6-10 minutes on average.  I am not a number cruncher. Sorry about that. Norma inspired me to try oil in the dough and I like it.  So now we use it regularly but still no sugar. Things are always changing.  I don't mean to mislead but I love to tweak things with ingredients, amounts, thickness of the grated cheese, temps, on an ongoing basis so what I say today may not be true tomorrow.  I prefer in the flesh interactions and the net is not my natural way.  Walter
« Last Edit: May 06, 2014, 07:59:31 PM by waltertore »

Offline gabaghool

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Re: a 5 day cold ferment pie-hard to beat
« Reply #19 on: May 14, 2014, 01:29:08 PM »
walter

why not simply make a 5 day dough??  I don't understand why that would be so difficult........fill me in......thanks.