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Offline tangtang

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dough time & space management for pizzeria
« on: March 16, 2014, 09:14:35 AM »
Hello pizzafolks!

Upfront, this is my very first post (apart from my introduction thread) and I am sorry if it probably turns out to be the longest ever on this forum  :-[! I have tried to include all the relevant information and appreciate any comments you may have. I am also thankful if you want to make suggestions regarding my posting style. I promise I will also start one-liner threads.

We plan on opening a small bakery and pizza-restaurant in a 150.000 city in Taiwan, where pizza is either unknown to the people, or most things offered as 'pizza' are unknown to me (me, that is someone who grew up eating pizza in Austria - which is next to Italy, and has eaten pizza around the world, I think I do know what great pizza is). Just this morning I put on the chimney on our beautifully built WFO and I cant wait to throw in the first pizzas sometime later this week.

Inpatient as I am I want to ask your thoughts on what kind of issues I can expect (and how I can approach them) when switching from the average family pizza bake to small restaurant operation, in particular regarding to dough time & (limited!) space management.

I understand that it is quite theoretical as yet, as I haven't had the chance to try my dough in the WFO (have to make up with whatever electrical mini oven one can get here in Taiwan - ovens are a rarity here) and the recipe might have to change. Obviously I will post over the next couple of weeks and adding new information, as the results from the WFO materialise - but I would still appreciate comments now not to get a massive shock experience and delaying the opening day.

I would call my pizza 'Neapolitan oriented' as this describes closest my desired outcome. However, I don't feel a need to stick to some kind of certified norm, I want to do what works for me. E.g. I do not use Caputo 00 as this is difficult to get here and very expensive, plus I am quite happy with the stuff I use at the moment.

Dough:
I am very happy with my dough, which  uses

flour 100% (I use a local brand with 12-13 % protein, 34.5-36.5 absorption, 0.38-0.40 ashes) (Caputo 00 Pizzeria compares to that with similar protein 12,75 much higher absorption 55-57, and higher ashes 0.50)
cold water 60%
fresh yeast 0.3 %
salt 3 %
I have read that the secret of some pizzerias is to substitute some of the water with wine - so I have experimented with that too and find that 5% of any cheap white wine will add to the flavour and homogeneity of the dough.
I do sometimes add a little olive oil at the very end (very un-Neapoliatan!), maybe 1 teaspoon or less, and also find that it helps achieving a rounder and fuller flavour.

Mixing:
I dissolve the fresh yeast in the cold water with my hands, put in the mixer, add the flour and mix the whole thing for a few minutes in my 20l / 3kg (4.4 gal / 106 ounces) capacity dough fork mixer (a Taiwanese brand with the name Tinso), I then add the salt. The mixer has 3 speed settings. I usually start on 1 (slow) until the ingredients come together and then go to setting 2 (medium) for the remaining time. The total mixing time I ususally somewhere around 10 minutes - not more.

Relaxing, balling, and fermenting:
I then transfer the dough into a big Tupperware container, close the lid and let it relax for about 1hr at room temperature. I then ball the dough into 160g / 5.6 ounce balls (for 9" pizzas), place in Tupperware airtight container and put in the fridge to cold ferment. I have had the best results with a 63 hrs fridge fermentation (I don't have a thermometer in my fridge, but its a 'standard' home fridge which is also used as such, i.e. frequent opening of the doors). I have also used the same dough and let ferment (in balls that is) at room temperature (which happened to be 23 C / 73F - temperatures here are mostly consistent day and night, which is convenient), which gave me a 'perfect' result after 13hrs.

My mixture was made with 1kg / 35 ounces flour. The dough was great to work with, the room temperature fermented one, the cold fermented one with and without allowing to come back to room temperature, and the dough had a nice enough spring in the crappy kitchen oven which maxes at about 230 C / 450F. I can't upload pictures at the moment, but the pizza looked like a pizza should look like and has a good taste.

The maximum amount of dough I have used so far was somewhere around 1.3kg (46 ounces). I will use the maximum capacity of my mixer 3kg / 106 ounces flour later this week when preparing dough for the first WFO fire  ;D

Now, the question is: If I plan to use this dough (and at least for a start also this mixer) to produce pizzas on a daily basis for the restaurant - what will happen? How can I make sure I have enough dough at the required time, little waste, and great taste?

There are a couple of interesting elements playing their part, e.g. how do I estimate the number of pizzas I will have to make  and sell (any comments on this are also welcome). Recently a pizza place opened nearby and they had an introductory offer, the first two days the first 100 customers at each lunch and dinner time got a 12" salami pizza for 1 Taiwandollar (3 US cent!!!) (400 pizzas in total). Surely enough the place was packed, I went 3 times and never got one. I was willing to buy a pizza at the regular price just to try it out but the owner told us that they had only prepared 100 doughs for each set. There were a few other customers who would have also paid for pizza. Our impression is just that, as a new business, attracting customers on the opening day, we don't want to send anyone home empty handed. Should we do anything similar I will surely prepare 100+ doughs!

While I feel confident preparing almost any number of pizzas for one single day the whole thing gets a lot more complex when I want to make pizzas every day. I have 1 fridge that will hold up to around 80 dough balls (I just bought new dough storage containers and don't know yet exactly how many balls I can place in there - but the number should be somewhere around the 80 I imagine). With my old method and the 63 hours cold fermentation I can sell pizza every 4th day  :o

The 13hr room temperature fermentation is already a little while ago, but I generally trust my notes which say the result was perfect. I will need to try this out again because thinking back of my very first pizza dough experiments a few years ago following a Jamie Oliver recipe, and advice that I may also use a fresh yeast dough straight away (it did surely work in that it produced something that looked a little bit like a pizza but I was also thirsty like a camel afterwards for one thing and my yeast blown stomach isn't something I would want my customers to experience either!), I want to be careful on the yeast-effect that a relatively short fermentation period leaves (even though the drastic cutting down of the amount of yeast I use has helped this tremendously - I still see recipes today (mainly in Europe) that call for a cube of fresh yeast per kg, i.e. 42g per kg / 1.5 ounces per 35 ounces or even more - do they want people to fly to the moon with that  :o)

So, my thinking leads me to somewhere near the idea of making dough every day and using the 13hr room temperature fermentation. The 80 or so dough balls in the fridge would serve as a backup, routinely replacing them every 3 days. Do you guys see that work out? What's your experience and/or opinion on selling different doughs?

How often will I have to make dough? Can I make the lunchtime and dinner dough at the same time? Anyone ever made a lot of dough using a tiny mixer such as mine? My 106 ounce mixer gives me 30 5.6 ounce dough balls (106 ounces flour plus other ingredients) at a time, so I plan on using it at least 3 times in a row.

I guess the exact quantities I will have to figure out over time, when my place is either packed ( :-D) or empty ( :'(). What I want to avoid obviously is running out of dough (I am not too concerned about the other possibility, the one that I am left with too many dough balls; in that case I plan to just bake little breads with it and sell them in the small bakery that we also run). My rough estimate as a normal pizza guy is that a place such as mine will sell somewhere around 100 pizzas per day (although my business plan has a much much lower number for survival).

Taking 100 pizzas per day as an estimate, anyone with an idea how 100 doughs could be prepared for each day? How do other pizzerias do that, or some of you who celebrate huge pizza parties over several days in a row!
My wife has come up with the idea of bulk fermenting in the fridge first, as this will save space - I haven't thought that through yet but I can imagine it may be a great idea. I also have never made dough with a preferment which, as I understand it, allows one to make dough in shorter time. Ideally I want to stick to my current dough and preparation method as much as possible - but I understand that my knowledge is limited, that's why I am posting here  8), so if it doesn't make sense to you please tell me!

I would appreciate that if you have any suggestions to alter the fermentation time or technique that you include information on whether or not my flour can cope with that or if I would have to change something along that line as well.

I will also experiment with another local flour I have just found out about which is only slightly more expensive and which claims to be specifically for stone oven and pizza use. It is lower in protein (11.1 - 12 %), but that's all I know about it for now. I will get my first bag this week, hopefully there is more info on the pack!

Are there any important back up strategies that I may want to consider should something really go wrong with either the room temperature dough or the fridge?

I admire every honored forum member who worked him/herself through this long post and truly look forward to any comments you may have! It will help make pizza known to these people here behind the mountain!

Many thanks!  :chef:

PS: While writing this I noticed that most of you are from the US and that you measure in ounces and gallons  ???, so I have tried to provide the proper units. If any amount seems ridiculous to you please ask and I will confirm whether or not its a mistake!


Offline waltertore

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Re: dough time & space management for pizzeria
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2014, 09:51:55 AM »
Hello and welcome to the forum!  I admire your enthusiasm and I wish my English was as good as yours :)  I currently run a bakery/pizzeria in a High School that teaches special needs children entry level job skills.  When I retire I will be opening my own pizzeria but there will be no bakery component.  The problem with running both at once is there are too many hats to wear.  I was raised in the NYC area and learned dough and baked goods from my mothers family who came here from Italy.  We make everything like back  home and all items are hand made.  We are only open during school hours and the school calendar.  Our bakery customers are commercial accounts (schools/universities) and pizza is sold to the general public.  The commercial accounts order a set amount each week (placed at least 2 weeks in advance) and choose between 3 types of bagels and a chocolate chip cookie.  To add more baked items would be way too stressful. We focus on baked goods from 7am-10am and pizza with the general public from 10am-2pm.  To run a decent bakery you need to  have at least a dozen or more items.   I tried this starting out and almost lost my mind.  Making  pizza/bakery items would be very stressfull unless you had a large enough staff with professional baking experience.  Mixer usage/bench space/oven space will most likely become an issue.  Pizzas like to bake at 500+ degrees and baked goods more near 350 and artisan breads 400-450.  That is a lot of variance unless you have dedicated ovens for each.  I am sure you have thought this out but figured I would add my experience with the bakery/pizzeria concept.  My mothers relatives use to tell me (all dead now) how Italian bakeries would make pizzas for the Italians but once soldiers came back from WWII they all wanted pizza too.  It got too stressful so most bakeries had a family member open a pizzeria and the bakery continued to make the dough for them.  I look forward to watching your progress.  Walter
« Last Edit: March 16, 2014, 09:59:53 AM by waltertore »

Offline tangtang

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Re: dough time & space management for pizzeria
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2014, 10:56:48 AM »
Hi Walter!
It's great that you are the first one to write a reply to my post because I have come across your threads previously and found them fascinating (there was one entitled something like "and you thought running your pizzeria was tough..."  ;))
I know a dear German lady here in Hualien, a sister from Bethesda Missionary, and she is running a home for kids with special needs - some fascinating work going on there. They are in a great location and about 3 years ago they built a cafe with sea view to be run by the residents. Unfortunately they haven't found a person with the skills that could supervise and train the kids! There were so many requests by regular companies incl. 7/11 (who are big here!) but Monica has a clear idea how the place should be run by the kids.
I will certainly check out your website. Maybe one day I will contact you for detailed information on that. I am quite busy with my own things currently but it'd be great if the place could finally meet its purpose and the kids got to work in the bakery/cafe (if you'd see the facility your eyes would fall out - they do already have a bakery and a car wash concept and its a great success).

Back to the topic: Thank you for your comments. Maybe some follow up questions from my side if I may.

How did you (or any of your ancestors) estimate the number of pizzas you will sell?

Which fermentation method do you use (ambient/cold, short/long).

Any ideas for open up promotion or price? Although I think we will have by far the best pizza in town we will be the cheapest as well - dangers of underpricing? If you start with a low price is it more difficult to increase the price later, even if only to the mid range?

As you mention Italian ancestors - would a true Italian pizzaiolo add wine to their dough?

Thanks  :chef:

Offline waltertore

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Re: dough time & space management for pizzeria
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2014, 11:45:56 AM »
Hi Walter!
It's great that you are the first one to write a reply to my post because I have come across your threads previously and found them fascinating (there was one entitled something like "and you thought running your pizzeria was tough..."  ;))
I know a dear German lady here in Hualien, a sister from Bethesda Missionary, and she is running a home for kids with special needs - some fascinating work going on there. They are in a great location and about 3 years ago they built a cafe with sea view to be run by the residents. Unfortunately they haven't found a person with the skills that could supervise and train the kids! There were so many requests by regular companies incl. 7/11 (who are big here!) but Monica has a clear idea how the place should be run by the kids.
I will certainly check out your website. Maybe one day I will contact you for detailed information on that. I am quite busy with my own things currently but it'd be great if the place could finally meet its purpose and the kids got to work in the bakery/cafe (if you'd see the facility your eyes would fall out - they do already have a bakery and a car wash concept and its a great success).

Back to the topic: Thank you for your comments. Maybe some follow up questions from my side if I may.

How did you (or any of your ancestors) estimate the number of pizzas you will sell?

Which fermentation method do you use (ambient/cold, short/long).

Any ideas for open up promotion or price? Although I think we will have by far the best pizza in town we will be the cheapest as well - dangers of underpricing? If you start with a low price is it more difficult to increase the price later, even if only to the mid range?

As you mention Italian ancestors - would a true Italian pizzaiolo add wine to their dough?

Thanks  :chef:

Thanks for sharing all that info and checking out what we do.  Please have your missionary friend email me.  Training special needs kids is tough but once they are trained they are set for life as long as the structure remains solid for them.  Finding the right cullenary person that can train disabled people is a tough find.  My program will most likely fold when I leave it but I hold hope the right person will come along to carry on. 



Our pizzas are pretty much NYC style and that is a ways from Italian pizza.


How did you (or any of your ancestors) estimate the number of pizzas you will sell?

That is a two fold and way more question.  First  I would ask myself how many pizzas am I comfortable with making in a day?  At the same time I would ask myself how many staff/how many hours/how many days a week would I be open?  That will determine what size/how many ovens will you be using(determines how many pizzas you can comfortably turn out per hour).  How much of your areas population going to venture out and try your new venture?  Is it in their culture to try small new places like yours?   Flour is cheap so having to toss some dough balls in the beginning is not that big a deal.   Will you have to figure out your toppings and fridge space for them?   Here in the USA the Board of Health checks kitchen saftey so if you are doing meat topping they will have to be kept at or below 40 degrees as will each ingredient need to meet specific health guidlines with handling/storage.   


Which fermentation method do you use (ambient/cold, short/long).

I do a 2-5 day cold ferment in the fridge.  We are closed Sat/Sun so dough made of Friday lasts us through tuesday.  For the rest of the week we do a 2 day cold ferment.  Refrigerator space is becoming an issue for us due to increased sales but as of now we mix the dough, weight, ball, put in dough boxes into regfrigerator.  I am going to start fooling around with cold bulk fementation to save on space.

Any ideas for open up promotion or price? Although I think we will have by far the best pizza in town we will be the cheapest as well - dangers of underpricing? If you start with a low price is it more difficult to increase the price later, even if only to the mid range?


This is an area I am not very skilled in and am learning more about it each day.  I sell our products below the area prices and our stuff is far superior.  I am up against lots of obstacles like - products made by special needs students inside a locked facility where  you have to use an intercom to get in, only open school hours/days, no direct phone line, no advertising, no nights/weekends. no delivery, only 2 choices of toppings -pepperoni ($10)/ ($9)cheese- and only 1 size pie 18".   When I open my own shop my prices will go up considerably.  If you will have the best pizza in town I would charge more than the others do regardless of if you need to or not from a survival point of view.  Here in the USA people expect to pay for a superior product.  But if you end up in a town like I am that is in poverty, they will buy what is cheapest most of the time.  I guess you have to figure out the cultural angles of your Country.   I lived in Brussels Belguim for 2.5 years and what would be considered normal here in the USA was often rude there.  An example was the check after eating.  In the USA most places will put the check down on your table without you asking for it.  In Belguim that is considered an insult. 


I never heard of wine being added to dough but it is loaded in sugar so I am sure it has been done and could work.  Take care.  Walter

« Last Edit: March 16, 2014, 11:49:32 AM by waltertore »

Offline tangtang

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Re: dough time & space management for pizzeria
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2014, 12:09:28 PM »
Great reply Walter. Thank you. Would be interested to hear about the bulk cold fermentation and what it changes for you (other than having more space!).

In Taiwanese culture food is on top of the list, everybody eats out everywhere (often for breakfast, lunch, and dinner). Its cheap, its good. Open a new place, people will queue just get see what its like - regardless of quality and price. That is what makes them come back or not. For the first couple of days I will be extremely busy, no matter what!

Cant wait to start my WFO because I want to see how many pies I can make with the 3 others working with me. In theory I can place between 6-9 pizzas in the oven at a time. Take 6 and an average bake time of 90 seconds (and I guess they will bake even faster)  gives you 240 pies per hour - how crazy is that!

(there should be a 'pizza on fire' icon here)

Offline waltertore

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Re: dough time & space management for pizzeria
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2014, 12:22:42 PM »
I am glad my thoughts were of some help.  I am ignorant to the WFO.  That is exciting to hear people are so food orientated.  I would definetly keep my prices above the rest especially since pizza is so new there.   It makes me want to move over there-sounds like the wild west we had here and a new great frontier........  :)  Walter

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: dough time & space management for pizzeria
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2014, 05:37:18 PM »
Bulk is your friend in the restaurant space as your wife noted, it lets you have a lot more dough in a much smaller space. Im not a fan of cold-fermenting in most situations, but it might be a good tool in your case. One option would be to figure out how many days worth of dough you can fit in your fridge in bulk, do all your bulk in the fridge and all your balls at room temp. Not only is this more space efficient, it also gives you some flexibility. In any case, it doesnt sound like cold fermenting balls is even an option for you.

For example, say you need 100 balls/day and you can fit 300 balls worth of dough in the fridge in bulk. You will have 4 days of dough made at any given time 3 days in the fridge in bulk and 1 day at room temp in balls. You just rotate your stock (keeping it separated by the day made) adding new bulk and taking bulk out and balling for that day or the next day (depending on when you decide to ball or maybe you make dough and ball 2X/day you will need to experiment and figure out what works best for you given your situation).

The flexibility this creates is that you can take some dough out early, ball it, and warm it up to speed up fermentation if needed. Perhaps you have a batch that fails for some reason; rather than shut down for the day, you simply speed up the next batch in the fridge and make twice as much new dough that day to replace the bad batch and what you used in its place.

Personally, Id work on a way to do a multi-day at room temp ferment (ideally 2 days in bulk and 1 in balls at any given time), but the fridge would certainly be the easier approach.

As for how many balls to make, I agree 100% with Walter dont make more than you can do at the level of quality you want. Ive been to big-name places that try to do more than they are capable of and the result is a disappointing experience for the customer. As long as you are not trying to go past the point where you cant maintain the quality, error on the side of having too much dough. Its a lot more expensive to send a customer away unhappy because you can make him a pizza than to throw away a few dough balls at the end of the night.

I guess you have your reasons why you want to be best and cheapest, however intentionally under-pricing is just silly. Its one thing to want to go to market with a value strategy, but intentionally leaving money on the table is not how businesses succeed. You need to do your homework and put some serious thought into your price. Its always difficult to raise prices even if you are the best and least expensive.

Personally, Im not a fan of promotions and discounts it sets unrealistic price expectations with your customers and conditions them to only come when you have a deal.  Maybe you need to do something to get people to try your pizza right after you open. Nobody here but you knows the answer to that, what you should charge, or how you should promote. You have to do your homework and come up with a plan. 
Pizza is not bread.

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Re: dough time & space management for pizzeria
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2014, 06:21:46 PM »
I would call my pizza 'Neapolitan oriented' as this describes closest my desired outcome. However, I don't feel a need to stick to some kind of certified norm, I want to do what works for me. E.g. I do not use Caputo 00 as this is difficult to get here and very expensive, plus I am quite happy with the stuff I use at the moment.

I don't think anyone here would tell you that your pizza isn't Neapolitan because you're not using Caputo 00.  As long as the flour you're using is unmalted, I think you're fully within the definition- and some might even argue that malted flour fits the definition as well.

99% of the knowledgeable people on this forum have a style specialty- an area of expertise.  Walter and I are NY guys, Craig is Neapolitan. We generally 'stick to certified norms' because, for most of us, the certified norms both produce the best results and can be easily taught.  By focusing on certified norms, we have a common language. Once someone leaves those norms, it makes helping them far more difficult.

If Neapolitan is your ideal, don't strive for 'Neapolitan oriented,' strive for Neapolitan.  That means (obviously) listening to Craig closely, as well as posting your questions to the Neapolitan forum.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2014, 06:25:55 PM by scott123 »

Offline tangtang

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Re: dough time & space management for pizzeria
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2014, 05:06:45 AM »
I don't think anyone here would tell you that your pizza isn't Neapolitan because you're not using Caputo 00.  As long as the flour you're using is unmalted, I think you're fully within the definition- and some might even argue that malted flour fits the definition as well.


Well, Neapolitan it is then  ^^^

Offline tangtang

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Re: dough time & space management for pizzeria
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2014, 05:19:01 AM »

Personally, Id work on a way to do a multi-day at room temp ferment (ideally 2 days in bulk and 1 in balls at any given time), but the fridge would certainly be the easier approach.
 

What's the difference between the two options you suggest,

a 24hr cold bulk ferment plus another 24hr ball room ferment
compared with
a multi-day at room temp ferment (ideally 2 days in bulk and 1 in balls at any given time).

Why do you find the fridge fermentation easier?

Am I right to assume that if we are busy and turning over many pizzas per day (100+ that would be in my case) that a room ferment would be easiest. No need for fridge, when dough runs low start to make more - could it be that easy?
Temp. can be quite high here in Taiwan (but the high humidity helps not to dry out the dough), but it is mostly steady and the back room in a building often has cooler temperatures, this is where I could have the dough come to life slowly...

Great advice so far  :D


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: dough time & space management for pizzeria
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2014, 12:49:41 PM »
tangtang,

For many years I have read about instances where professionals, and home pizza makers as well, have used bulk cold fermentation followed by division and scaling into individual dough balls. Rather than repeat what I have written on this subject many times before, and what other members have reported, I will instead refer you to these items (in no particular order):

Reply 13 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=19620.msg192396;topicseen#msg192396

http://thinktank.pmq.com/threads/more-flavour-in-the-dough.14995/#post-91387

Reply 16 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=25191.msg255186;topicseen#msg255186

Reply 14 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=23355.msg236969;topicseen#msg236969

Reply 14 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=13394.msg133542;topicseen#msg133542

Reply 27 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=16618.msg162894#msg162894

Reply 9 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=10012.msg87628;topicseen#msg87628

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=20067.msg197025#msg197025

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=15208.msg150141#msg150141

Reply 8 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=12671.msg122594;topicseen#msg122594

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=20067.0

I think the above items will give you a good idea as to what you may have to deal with in case you decide to use a cold bulk ferment. And I don't mean to suggest that it is not doable. However, as scott123 had written about, and I believe Tom Lehmann as well, you have to be sure that the final formed dough balls are given enough time to relax to be usable when you need to use them to make pizzas. I would also like to see enough evidence that the bulk-then-divide approach works well and consistently in a commercial environment where a hundred or more dough balls are made in a single batch.

In your case, if you have settled on making a true Neapolitan style pizza, you might find it preferable to use room temperature fermentation of the dough, both in bulk and as individual dough balls, as is done in Naples, although I will add that there are professional pizza operators who use cold fermentation of dough used to make Neapolitan style pizzas. Some operators who make the classic room temperature Neapolitan dough will even use refrigeration for strictly holding purposes.

Happy reading ;D.

Peter
« Last Edit: March 17, 2014, 04:43:31 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline waltertore

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Re: dough time & space management for pizzeria
« Reply #11 on: March 17, 2014, 03:37:35 PM »
Peter:  I mixed 20lbs of dough and put the entire dough in cold fermentation this morning.  I am going to leave it in until thursday morning.  I will then ball it and let it rise at room temp.  I know how hard dough gets in the fridge but we are running out of fridge space.  If this doesn't ball/rise easily we will be looking at a bigger fridge, doing our regular 2-5 day balled cold ferment and just sucking in our bellies as we walk around :)  Walter

Offline c0mpl3x

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Re: dough time & space management for pizzeria
« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2014, 07:02:05 PM »
Peter:  I mixed 20lbs of dough and put the entire dough in cold fermentation this morning.  I am going to leave it in until thursday morning.  I will then ball it and let it rise at room temp.  I know how hard dough gets in the fridge but we are running out of fridge space.  If this doesn't ball/rise easily we will be looking at a bigger fridge, doing our regular 2-5 day balled cold ferment and just sucking in our bellies as we walk around :)  Walter

if your dough is getting hard in the fridge, why is it getting hard? do you literally mean it hardens with a crust because it isn't covered, or hard in a sense that you have no room to do it?
Hotdogs kill more people than sharks do, yearly.

Offline waltertore

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Re: dough time & space management for pizzeria
« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2014, 08:50:59 PM »
if your dough is getting hard in the fridge, why is it getting hard? do you literally mean it hardens with a crust because it isn't covered, or hard in a sense that you have no room to do it?


When you refrigerate dough it gets very dense/hard to work with and I wonder how easy/hard it will be to ball up.  that is what I meant.  Walter

Offline c0mpl3x

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Re: dough time & space management for pizzeria
« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2014, 03:50:23 PM »

When you refrigerate dough it gets very dense/hard to work with and I wonder how easy/hard it will be to ball up.  that is what I meant.  Walter

if the dough is 'slack' enough from not being over-worked prior to bulk rising, it shouldn't be too hard, in experience. harder, but not a real challenge. spreading the dough out for a few hours before balling may help
Hotdogs kill more people than sharks do, yearly.


 

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