Author Topic: making my own cheese  (Read 844 times)

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Offline tangtang

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making my own cheese
« on: March 16, 2014, 11:16:15 AM »
Hello,
I live in Taiwan where most of the cheese is imported, there is not a good variety, and its impossible to get rennet. Importing rennet is expensive and prone with all kind of difficulties. Playing with the idea of making my own mozzarella for our WFO Margaritas in our soon to be open pizzeria I wonder if any of you have experienced with making cheese without rennet. I think I have heard about someone making I think ricotta cheese from vinegar essence - any hints on making cheese with things I might have access to here in Taiwan  ????

Many thanks  :chef:


Offline Pastaking

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Re: making my own cheese
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2014, 01:12:55 PM »
You can make ricotta cheese with citric acid, vinegar or even lemon juice. To make mozzarella instead of ricotta the cheese curd needs to "gel" up and you do need rennet, either animal extracted or vegetable based will work. I never heard of using anything else but rennet to make mozzarella.

Offline tangtang

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Re: making my own cheese
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2014, 01:36:42 PM »
yes that's what I thought, ricotta works but mozzarella is a different story altogether...

scott123

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Re: making my own cheese
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2014, 07:54:06 PM »
Tangtang, I know that frozen bufala is pretty common here in the states, and I believe most people are fairly pleased with it, but frozen fior di latte... especially frozen fior di latte that's been frozen for an indeterminate amount of time... if I were in your shoes, I would turn over every possible rock looking for rennet.

I did a little digging for cheese/cheemaking ingredients in Taiwan, and, while nothing obvious turned up, I ran across some interesting leads:

http://www.forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopic.php?f=98&t=88334
http://www.forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopic.php?f=25&p=1527409
http://www.forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopic.php?f=98&t=78979&start=10#p1001944
http://www.forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopic.php?f=98&t=118059
http://www.forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopic.php?f=98&t=90633
http://www.forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopic.php?f=25&p=1474793

These links are all Taipei-centric, so they may not be viable for you, but something might be useful.

In addition, I dug a little deeper and found this:

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/feat/archives/2005/01/30/2003221603/2

Now, Frauchiger started making cheese in '05 and according to this, was making it in '08

http://www.taiwanfun.com/north/taipei/dining/0803/0803yogurt.htm

but he has apparently moved on

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/peter-frauchiger/41/6a6/a76
https://plus.google.com/104433096645788819174/posts?hl=en

Even though he's not selling mozzarella any more, he might be able to put you in contact with a rennet supplier and/or other cheese makers as well as retail sources for good/non frozen cheese. I'd give the hotel a call and see if you can speak with him.

One caveat:  If you're going the homemade motz route, you need extremely fresh raw milk.

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: making my own cheese
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2014, 10:17:20 PM »
Why is it difficult and expensive to import rennet to Taiwan?

Even if you can get rennet, can you get raw milk?
Pizza is not bread.

Offline Pastaking

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Re: making my own cheese
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2014, 02:59:44 PM »
you dont neccesarily need raw milk to make the mozzarella, you can use regular whole milk, you just cannot use the ultra pasteurized (UP) and definintely not the Ultra High Temperature Sterilization (UHT) Milk. I'm not sure why you cannot obtain rennet in Taiwan, it is probably manufactured there anyway...

scott123

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Re: making my own cheese
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2014, 03:15:33 PM »
I've never made mozzarella myself, but this seems to be the common opinion regarding raw milk:

Making Fresh Mozzarella!

Quote
Pasteurized milk does work, it just doesn’t come together smoothly and perfectly like raw milk doesd. Raw/fresh milk mozzarella is definitely more smooth and delicious

and, while this is the opinion of what appears to a home hobbyist, I've spoken in depth with one of the top 4 American mozzarella curd manufacturers and they assured me that raw fresh milk is critical to the quality of the cheese.

Offline JD

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Re: making my own cheese
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2014, 03:19:26 PM »
I've made pizza with homemade cheese from pasteurized whole milk, and it resembles part-skim/low-fat cheese you buy in the store. I'm no cheese making expert though so it could have been a flawed process and not necessarily the fault of pasteurization. 

Josh

Offline deb415611

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Re: making my own cheese
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2014, 05:36:00 PM »
I've made pizza with homemade cheese from pasteurized whole milk, and it resembles part-skim/low-fat cheese you buy in the store. I'm no cheese making expert though so it could have been a flawed process and not necessarily the fault of pasteurization.

+1,  i have used both pasteurized and raw and the raw was much better but like JD I am no expert.  I haven't done any mozzarella,  mostly farmhouse cheddar and once did side by side test,  the raw was a better yield and texture

cheeseforum.org is a pretty active cheese making forum you might want to check them out if you haven't found them already

Offline Pastaking

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Re: making my own cheese
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2014, 05:47:41 PM »
I've never made mozzarella myself, but this seems to be the common opinion regarding raw milk:

Making Fresh Mozzarella!

and, while this is the opinion of what appears to a home hobbyist, I've spoken in depth with one of the top 4 American mozzarella curd manufacturers and they assured me that raw fresh milk is critical to the quality of the cheese.

I agree that raw milk is much better to use for making cheeses, I was just trying to point out that it is not necessarily needed to try and make his own. If He could obtain some rennet  he could see what making cheese is all about and decide if he wants to continue. That's all.


Offline dmckean44

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Re: making my own cheese
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2014, 11:29:22 PM »
"Whole milk" in the store is 3.2% milkfat, not the 5%+ you need to make a quality mozzarella.

Offline Pastaking

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Re: making my own cheese
« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2014, 06:45:12 AM »
Hello,
I live in Taiwan where most of the cheese is imported, there is not a good variety, and its impossible to get rennet. Importing rennet is expensive and prone with all kind of difficulties. Playing with the idea of making my own mozzarella for our WFO Margaritas in our soon to be open pizzeria I wonder if any of you have experienced with making cheese without rennet. I think I have heard about someone making I think ricotta cheese from vinegar essence - any hints on making cheese with things I might have access to here in Taiwan  ????

Many thanks  :chef:


You can also look into making your own rennet from Fig Sap. I have never done it but I read it can be done. Not sure if you even have access to fig trees in Taiwan but figured I would throw that at you too.

Good luck

Offline tangtang

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Re: making my own cheese
« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2014, 10:27:46 AM »

You can also look into making your own rennet from Fig Sap. I have never done it but I read it can be done. Not sure if you even have access to fig trees in Taiwan but figured I would throw that at you too.

Good luck

I have come across some remarks that a vegan form of rennet can be made based on papaya and other fruits, I guess fig is one along that line. Fruits we definitely have enough over here so I will keep on searching for rennet obtained from those sources.

To the posters who can't believe I can't get rennet here... ^^^ it's difficult for me too, but I really have tried lot's of places and have reached a point where I usually have found something or it doesn't exist.

The price of milk is also relatively high here (don't know yet about the raw milk), so it would be an expensive hobby anyway - I will keep on working on it.

How much do you guys per for rennet in the US, and do you use tablets or another form? What I found on amazon is about 1 Euro per tablet, which is enough for 1-2 liters. If 1 liter milk gives me around 300g mozzarella 100 g cheese would cost me around 1,5 Euro minimum in ingredients only. I guess making cheese just isn't a cheap hobby, and wouldn't really be an option for our business...

Offline tangtang

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Re: making my own cheese
« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2014, 10:28:58 AM »
I've made pizza with homemade cheese from pasteurized whole milk, and it resembles part-skim/low-fat cheese you buy in the store. I'm no cheese making expert though so it could have been a flawed process and not necessarily the fault of pasteurization.

and how did it taste? any pics?

Offline tangtang

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Re: making my own cheese
« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2014, 10:35:29 AM »
Tangtang, I know that frozen bufala is pretty common here in the states, and I believe most people are fairly pleased with it, but frozen fior di latte... especially frozen fior di latte that's been frozen for an indeterminate amount of time... if I were in your shoes, I would turn over every possible rock looking for rennet.

I did a little digging for cheese/cheemaking ingredients in Taiwan, and, while nothing obvious turned up, I ran across some interesting leads:

http://www.forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopic.php?f=98&t=88334
http://www.forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopic.php?f=25&p=1527409
http://www.forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopic.php?f=98&t=78979&start=10#p1001944
http://www.forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopic.php?f=98&t=118059
http://www.forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopic.php?f=98&t=90633
http://www.forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopic.php?f=25&p=1474793

These links are all Taipei-centric, so they may not be viable for you, but something might be useful.

In addition, I dug a little deeper and found this:

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/feat/archives/2005/01/30/2003221603/2

Now, Frauchiger started making cheese in '05 and according to this, was making it in '08

http://www.taiwanfun.com/north/taipei/dining/0803/0803yogurt.htm

but he has apparently moved on

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/peter-frauchiger/41/6a6/a76
https://plus.google.com/104433096645788819174/posts?hl=en

Even though he's not selling mozzarella any more, he might be able to put you in contact with a rennet supplier and/or other cheese makers as well as retail sources for good/non frozen cheese. I'd give the hotel a call and see if you can speak with him.

One caveat:  If you're going the homemade motz route, you need extremely fresh raw milk.

Thank you! I have come across that guy, only in a different article though. He was about my only shot and I thought before contacting the only guy I have heard of in Taiwan who makes cheese (a Swiss who got famous here by making his own cheese) I might get a bit more knowledgable on the topic through the forum.

I will contact him and let you guys know if he is willing to share some of his secrets (I know its must be difficult for you guys to believe there is no cheese or cheese making products here...I eat lots of cheese back home and it was a shock for my system having to live without!)

Offline tangtang

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Re: making my own cheese
« Reply #15 on: March 18, 2014, 10:43:24 AM »
Tangtang, I know that frozen bufala is pretty common here in the states, and I believe most people are fairly pleased with it, but frozen fior di latte... especially frozen fior di latte that's been frozen for an indeterminate amount of time... if I were in your shoes, I would turn over every possible rock looking for rennet.


As I have already obtained some and quite happy to got my hands on some I will try it out later this week. New pizza flour just arrived today and mixing some dough now. I will let you know how it turns out. I will try different methods, frozen grated, thawed crumbled, and thawed sliced.

Somebody once posted under a topic (titled something like 'can mozzarella be frozen' 'rescued from frozen' - sorry, don't have the exact reference) that frozen mozzarella may be soaked in salted milk to retain some of its 'freshness'... so I guess I will also try that one.

Anyone has experience working with 1kg blocks of frozen mozzarella - would you thaw it first or try to work with the frozen product. When it goes in the oven, should it be thawed?

Offline JD

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Re: making my own cheese
« Reply #16 on: March 18, 2014, 10:45:08 AM »
and how did it taste? any pics?

No pics, the cheese did not re-melt well at all. It became rubbery when it cooled down a little and when I bit into the pizza, all of the cheese came off with it.

Are there any restaurants in your area that use cheese you feel is acceptable? If you're using it for your business, I think buying pre-made cheese and/or curd would be better than making it completely from scratch.

You can make ricotta cheese with citric acid, vinegar or even lemon juice.

I tried this last night with vinegar & regular whole milk, it was exceptionally easy. Thanks for posting!
« Last Edit: March 18, 2014, 11:22:26 AM by JD »
Josh

Offline tangtang

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Re: making my own cheese
« Reply #17 on: March 18, 2014, 11:02:08 AM »

I tried this last night with vinegar & regular whole milk, it was exceptionally easy. Thanks for posting!

Which one did you try, the mozz. or the ricotta?

Offline JD

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Re: making my own cheese
« Reply #18 on: March 18, 2014, 11:22:47 AM »
Which one did you try, the mozz. or the ricotta?

Ricotta, I edited the post. Thanks.
Josh


 

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