Author Topic: New Caputo 00 flour for ovens 700 degrees and below.  (Read 1040 times)

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Offline Donjo911

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Re: New Caputo 00 flour for ovens 700 degrees and below.
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2014, 11:58:23 AM »
I bought some of the A Metro flour.  I've made two batches with the flour and have a third starting today. My first was 100% A Metro with a combination of ADY (.005% of flour) & homegrown starter (ADY to help with rise. It produced good results for the type and size of pizza made. However, the dough was different in handling than my preference in that it was a little slack.

For batch 2, I augmented the A Metro with some Stone Buhr flour that claims 5% protein - 80/20 by weight. The balance of the ingredients and weights were consistent with batch 1.  This dough I managed differently as well as I continue to read and be unsure of the impacts of temperature and temperature consistency on final dough.  This dough opened so easily without tearing and was consistently thin. However, for the weight of the dough ball (20 oz.) I expected it to get to 18" easily, I did not expect it to not want to stop near 20". More, it grew on the slide from the peel and became oval. This may be part of the 'Pizza by the Meter' name for the flour.

I like the flour.  I like the idea of a '00' flour suitable for a home-ish oven (with stone and steel & long full heat preheat.) I have more experimenting to do for certain.  Below are some pictures of the pies from the two bakes taken with iPhone so not great. (#1&2 from 100% Metro batch 1) (#3-5 80/20 batch 2)
Few great accomplishments are achieved single-handedly, Most have their Norgays.
How do you spot a Norgay?
You start with the people with the funny names.

Offline PizzaAlaJoey

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Re: New Caputo 00 flour for ovens 700 degrees and below.
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2014, 12:25:49 PM »
Wow. They look good. Thanks for showing me that.

Offline mkevenson

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Re: New Caputo 00 flour for ovens 700 degrees and below.
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2014, 05:26:27 PM »
Hmm, sounds interesting. $17 shipping to my home for a $25/ 20lb rebag?
Anyone else used this flour and or seen it in Calif at retail?

Mark
"Gettin' better all the time" Beatles

Offline Donjo911

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Re: New Caputo 00 flour for ovens 700 degrees and below.
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2014, 06:44:12 PM »
Mark,
I did the 12 lb repack.
If you want me to send you a pound or two...let me know.  I'd be happy to send via the USPS Flat Rate Box if you'd like. From OR to So CA should take just a couple days. I'm moving in a week or so to a different house so I've been putting off a new flour purchase till we know the close date.

Cheers,
Don
Few great accomplishments are achieved single-handedly, Most have their Norgays.
How do you spot a Norgay?
You start with the people with the funny names.

Offline mkevenson

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Re: New Caputo 00 flour for ovens 700 degrees and below.
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2014, 07:06:21 PM »
Mark,
I did the 12 lb repack.
If you want me to send you a pound or two...let me know.  I'd be happy to send via the USPS Flat Rate Box if you'd like. From OR to So CA should take just a couple days. I'm moving in a week or so to a different house so I've been putting off a new flour purchase till we know the close date.


Cheers,
Don


Thanks, Don. Sent PM
"Gettin' better all the time" Beatles

Offline Donjo911

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Re: New Caputo 00 flour for ovens 700 degrees and below.
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2014, 12:30:11 AM »
These were tonight's pies. Why is it always that when my wife is out of town, I have better results and she misses out?  A test of how things taste is her palate.  I made the dough baked tonight at 6AM yesterday. I will post the Recipie as a follow on (it's on the chalkboard) to this message.

A huge difference for me is 2 things: 1) after reading about tenderness and dough types I tried a very high hydration dough. Did stretch and folds, and balled. much smaller than normal. 2) I used a super tiny amount of ADY to augment the 'starter' that I've grown that does not have much lift. By not much I mean less than .005% of flour.  I actually wondered why I was putting it in at all.  Oppos, third thing. It comes from reading too much of this forum and having VWG on hand.  After the slack dough from the weekend - I wondered if just a tiny amount might improve my dough.  Yes, I realize that adding VWG to any 00 flour breaks the first and third rule of pizza club. It did have a good, not awesome, result.

I made 2 pies. One 12 oz. ball and one 14 oz. ball.  The stretch ability was good for both but the texture of the smaller pie was much better. (12 hour fridge cold ferment + 12+ hour counter ferment/rise) it's the smaller of the pies.   The larger was slightly different (16 hour cold ferment + 6+ hour counter ferment/rise.)  both were cheesed and sauced the same with similar weights. The topping was only gallo salami on the small and Sabatino's Italian sausage and hormel 1" (on hand - did not want to open the boars head pep for this test)

The oven temps and Steele temp were again higher than I had experienced while keeping the soapstone in the oven. All Scott123 says about pre-heat with broiler in a electric oven is clearly true.  Both had a 4.5 minute bake time with 2 minutes of bake after a broil preheat and then 2.5 minutes of broil.

The smaller of the two reminded me (it was clearly not it just reminded me) of a Neapolitan pie.  The crust was crisp on the bottom but forgiving, the underskirt was baked but not brown like my 18" pies, and the cornicione was milky and had a crunch - but not any more or less than you'd expect.  It was as close as I've gotten to date to that mouthfeel of a Italian pie in a home oven. 

My only complaint about my work is that I should have made the dough thinner on opening. I was worried that there would be no crumb given the weak starter and the tiny amount of ADY so I built up the crumb more than I needed to and therin paying note nought attention to the uniformity of the dough.  Both pies came out of the oven thin-ish. However, while I was devouring slices of each and came back for more...I noticed that the sauce?? Or other liquids had crept into the crust and it had grown a bit. It was not gummy. It was not bready.. It just grew in its thickness. Perhaps I was wring to go as 'light' as I did on toppings?! This time around. 

Oh well. I will say- the A Metro Caputo '00' continues to impress and challenge me. And I like it!
« Last Edit: April 04, 2014, 12:32:44 AM by Donjo911 »
Few great accomplishments are achieved single-handedly, Most have their Norgays.
How do you spot a Norgay?
You start with the people with the funny names.

Offline mkevenson

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Re: New Caputo 00 flour for ovens 700 degrees and below.
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2014, 11:30:15 AM »
Don, nice write up and pics. I really like the color on the bottom, pic # 2. Nice airy structure in the cornicone.
What specific challenges are you finding with the new Caputo flour. You mention earlier a 13% protein level in the flour, or perhaps I read it elsewhere? Did it mix like a higher protein dough.
Looking forward to trying it.

Mark
"Gettin' better all the time" Beatles

Offline Donjo911

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Re: New Caputo 00 flour for ovens 700 degrees and below.
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2014, 03:58:50 PM »
I started off with 100% '00' A Metro in batch one.  It produced a usable dough (barely) but my starter was not fully active so I blamed the results (first on me) on the starter not the flour.  My dough management varies slightly. As I read more about how Pete-zza,  Chau, Johnny the Gent, Norma, TxCraig, Scott123 prepare and handle dough I try different things, write it all down and hope to stumble onto something that works.  ???
In the case of dough #1 the dough was slack, extensible, but it did not 'feel right."  I thought the problem was something I experienced before with the Caputo '00' Pizzeria (bulk) flour.  I figured that the lack of temp that at the time was being generated by soapstone was inadequate and that mixing with some stronger flour might help.

For dough #2 I used 60% Caputo '00' A Metro + 40% Stone Buhr flour which per 100gm claims 5% protein. (See pic of flour nutritional info below) Perhaps that's where the 13+% protein came from?  This dough had a lot of ADY for me = 1% of flour; 62.5% Nestle/Arrowhead water. My starter/preferment is 100% 50-50 water to flour. I added 30%. This was partly due to my desire to get a larger cornicione along with the ADY. I added dry ADY to the flour added the poolish and mixed on 1 for 1 minute, let is sit for5 minutes.  I added all the water mixed for 5 minutes. Rest for 20 min.  Then added the remainder of the flour slowly while on 1 (all mixing done in a KA Artisan with C hook) until incorporated. I estimated 2 minutes. I usually cut/weigh/ball and place into individual covered bowls with the smallest amount of oil possible.  In this case, because I was reading about bulk counter ferment. I dumped all the dough into a bulk container and left on huge counter at 65* for 2 hours and then bulk into the fridge.  It was not until 72 hours in the fridge that I removed the bulk, weighed/balled 20 oz balls.  I used 2 of the 4 balls on the night of day three. I used one of the remaining balls the following day.  These were the extremely extensible doughs. It seemed to me that as this dough aged further it lost almost all of its elasticity.  However, as mentioned in an earlier post - it did achieve a thin thickness factor, it baked to be more close to a NY style pie than I've ever made before. It baked well in the oven at sub 5 minutes.

Dough #3 was the same as above in all but 2 wildly significant ways. And one slight one:
- I added the old dough ball from #2 to the water and dissolved it (20 oz. ball)
- No additional ADY was added.
- I added grape seed oil  .5% of flour weight (not counting the old dough weight)

The bulk/ball was the same as dough #2.  Below is a pick of what the dough looked like when I was ready to bake on the 3rd day (bubbling dough 'ball')

Dough #4 was a very different experiment.  Like Dough #1 it was all '00' A Metro.  I used less flour this time out as I was shooting for 12" a 13" pies.
-  Flour weight was 21 oz. of the '00' A Metro.
-  65.1%  Water
-    .07%  ADY
-  26.%.   Starter/Preferment
-     3%.  Salt (in all cases I'm using fine Kirkland Sea Salt)

I took some of the water, heated it and added the ADY for 10 minutes until bubbly. I dissolved the Starter/Preferment in the water while the ADY was proofing. Then I incorporated the starter and salt into all the remaining water. Mixed with my hands and then added the ADY/water to the other water in the mixing bowl.  With the mixer on 1,  I added all of the flour mixed for 1 minute. Let it rest for 5 minutes, Mixed for 4 minutes on 1. Rested for 10 minutes, mixed on 1 for 1 additional minute.  I weighted/balled 13 oz. dough into separate containers. Overt the next hour I did stretch and folds @ 20 minutes 3 times. Then into the fridge.  Yesterday morning I took one of the two out of the fridge, did stretch and folds once, balled and sat on the counter at 68* first thing in the morning until bake time.  I took a second dough ball out of the fridge about 4 hours before bake time and did a stretch and reballed.  The both dough balls opened up but the AM one opened much larger given that it was the same weight.  I have one of these dough balls left.  Here is a picture of what it looks like at his time. (It will be the flat looking dough pic)

I realize I'm all over the place with fermentation methods, times, etc. I realize it would be better to be more systematic about trial and error.  That's not lost on me.  I am using all kinds of different flour and my oven temp has effectively jumped 50* with the change to steel and removing the soapstone from the oven. That said, I am very open to anything you of the forum members might suggest based on the info and pics provided. And, not drinking wine while baking pies will not be considered constructive advice >:D

I was reading about Stromboli last night so I may make this into a spinach/Kale/basil/garlic & cheese Italian burrito.  There's a place in Orange County CA called Peppinos.  They make really awesome "spinach bread" that I miss.  And I have eaten 12 pizzas in the last 14 days.  I'm feeling happy - but doughy  :-D
« Last Edit: April 04, 2014, 04:06:36 PM by Donjo911 »
Few great accomplishments are achieved single-handedly, Most have their Norgays.
How do you spot a Norgay?
You start with the people with the funny names.


 

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